AT lynch mobs

[Total Refected Power]

Personally, I feel that incendiary posts are made largely to garner attention. Low-key members such as myself are easily forgettable and to some that is too troublesome to their egos.

We all know what buttons to push and some are just immature enough to engage in that activity for the attention. So when a "lynch mob" shows up it serves two purposes. One is to indicate that such behavior is intolerable and two flush out who is a "real" person and not just an instigator.

 

[Optimus]

Michael - I take it this is at least partly directed at me?

Let me try to answer the points in your well-put post:



<< 1) This is a moderated bbs. If the mods find a thread or a poster offensive enough, they will deal with it. They probably appreciate a head's up (e-mail or a post in Forum Issues). They don't need a bunch of people piling into a thread and trying to close it down. >>



Agreed - and I think they do a great job. I have never tried to do what they do. My point in replying is to point out what is wrong and take a stand against it. A community that ignores everything because it &quot;ain't my job&quot; is doomed to fail.




<< 2) One private message goes a long, long way when you want to point out that something might be offensive. Post it in public and you are more likely than not to draw an angry reaction. Chiming in over and over is much more likely to get the &quot;offending&quot; person mad than it is to get them to consider their post. The more public the attack, the more likely it will degenerate into a flame war. Again, private messages and e-mails can work wonders. >>



Again, the point is to state that this behavior is not allowed -not only because of the rules, but because it is plain wrong. I don't know if the &quot;me too!&quot; posts help, but people resonding with a counter argument or statement is fine. Is the thread poster allowed to post this stuff and no one can respond?

A PM seems to me to be a far more personal attack, and one which is easily ignored. If the response is a simple flame, it would be fine, but a well-thought out response should be available to all.



<< 3) Remember that you're posting in public. That means that people might publicly disagree with you. You'll save yourself a ton of heartburn if you don't take it personally. It is only words stored on a HD that will scroll out of sight in 24 hours (shorter if the thread isn't interesting). >>



I only take it personally when the post is causing good members like ChritonsGirl and Girl Friday to leave our forum.



<< 4) We're online. While women may need a little protection offline, they do not need anywhere near the same level of protection online. They can type just as well or better than anyone else. While it may seem romantic to ride to the aid of a woman, I find it to be a put down. Can't they take care of themselves? My first exchange with Isla was a biting flame (ask her). One poster jumped in to defend them &quot;woman&quot; that was being attacked. WTF, most people here use aliases and Icons. I was attacking an idea I did not agree with >>



Agreed that the women members are (IMHO) ever tougher than us guys - thats not the point. When a group of morons attack anyone wrongly, its an attack on the forum. Also, I don't care if its one guy or 2 girls, or a squirrel - if that person(s) is being attacked by a group of idiots, and the idiots are wrong, I will respond to them.



<< 5) Constantly worrying about what may or may not &quot;offend&quot; someone is crazy. For example, if I post that I find fat women ugly (note, my longest-term GF <not counting my wife who I've been with for 6 years, 5 married> was &quot;fat&quot; under any definition of the word. I didn't call her &quot;fat&quot;, I called her beautiful), then it is just my dumb opinion. It is not directed at any member here. I have no clue what just about anyone here looks like. Direct insults aimed at another member are different, but I refer you to #3. Again, the mods will deal with it is it is too bad. I've seen plenty of replies where someone says &quot;this might be offensive&quot; and yet no one says that they are offended. >>



No one wants a &quot;PC&quot; board here (no pun intended ) - I'm not here cruising for &quot;offensive threads&quot; like some neighborhood watch! In the recent &quot;grocery list&quot; thread, I replied to the initial post with some questions and comments - no flames, no problem. None of us mind the babe threads, toilet ones - heck I participate in them too! But once good members start getting attacked by people who are wrong to do so, I feel like fighting fire with fire.



<< 6) If a thread title indicates something that you think you'll be bent out of shape over, don't click the darned thread. >>



Or I read it and ignore it... whatever. Again, it isn't the topics, subjects... its the fact that they start the fighting and we are expected not to fight back. I do - for myself and any wrongly attacked good members of the board.


The mob mentality isn't one I try to participate in either - sometimes I'm the first or (it feels like) the only one fighting these twerps. I've gotten a lot of flack from them, of course, and some thanks from other folks. My feeling is that I am simply responding to the attacks - should I not? Should these idiots be posting attacks and we keep silent? I know our mods do thier best, but I love this place and I feel I should fight back. I also try only to attack when I or someone else is attacked first.

I'm not trying to police anything or monitor, or judge (I'm only one of 45,000 members!) - I just hit the hitters back. I guess its something I've always had a tendency to do - I used to fight the bullies in grade school and later the thugs in hockey!

Your post has an excellent point, however - about not judging, lynching, and letting this board become &quot;PC&quot; and paranoid. I hope my fighting the twerps is not a part of that. If so, I would welcome the feedback from anyone here (I know, most of you don't even know who I am - read the Wangel thread and others in a username search). If the board would prefer I hold silent in these situations, I will respect that and do so.

-Optimus

 

[flippinfleck]

So many good points brought up here. Look at lowly old me, noone knows me. But I don't know any of you either. I just read and read and read some more. Were my opinions changed by reading this post? Not really. I have gained insight into the people that post here in OT. Are you really encouraging people to post what they feel, what they believe in? I don't think so, not from what I have read here so far. Flame me for what I see? Hey, I'm just reading. Ever go to school and get picked on by a bully just to have the bully back down when confronted on a one to one? I have. That's my lesson today, if you have a problem w/someone and their views/beliefs, take it up w/them. Don't get a 'lynch mob' behind you and go after them. They will just retaliate with as much, if not more, force. Can't we all just get along?

 

[Prodigy^]

well I guess I misunderstood something.

 

[Isla]

Prodigy...

That's not what I got from Red's post at all.

I guess I'll read it again, but it seemed to me like it was in defense of Classy... I thought the 'White Hooded Avatars' for the racists was a great touch...

 

[vi edit]

Isla, I interpreted Red's post the same way as you did. as well.

 

[Russ]

<< Its amazing and I thought you had a clue Russ, guess not. Wow the white guys can come in here and say anything they want, no matter how racial it is and they are just venting. A black person says something along the same lines or gives an alternative opinion and they are every name in the book. >>



Classy,

Your assertion might actually have merit were it not for the fact that I respond in precisely the same manner to the Guilty White Liberals at this forum.

Your skin color is of zero relevance. In point of fact, until you started mentioning it in just about every thread, I just assumed that your color was pink, just as Chess9's is. Your inane liberal positions are all that I give a rat's ass about.

Why do you insist on making race an issue in every debate? You may be surprised to learn that there are some of us who prefer to focus on the merits of the argument, not the pigmentation of the individual making that argument.

However, if it comforts you to believe that I disagree with you because of your skin color, so be it. There is nothing I can do to change that, nor do I have any desire to extricate you from your delusions in that regard.

However, I will not treat you with kid gloves because you mistakenly believe that I harbor some animus based on your minority status. So, if the goal of your inference that I am racist is to convince me to allow you slack, you have failed in that mission.

Russ, NCNE

 

[Isla]

LOL, I can feel the love here!

Ah, good to know everything is back to normal and all is right with the world.

I love all of you guys, from Russ to Red Dawn and from GF to Thunderbooty!

 

[Total Refected Power]

One thing that is a constant here is that no one is ever persuaded by another's argument. We just all go along in our blissful state of self-righteous certaintude.

 

[Prodigy^]

Hmm I feel that people often follow the opinion of others heavily, so I'd have to disagree with that.

Btw sorry for misreading your post red dawn, I guess your writing is too intelligent for me to understand I still think you're a flaming moron tho

 

[BoberFett]

Thank you Russ.

Before I even had any idea what color classy was, he had labeled me a racist because I disagreed with his foolish points of view.

 

[Total Refected Power]

Prodigy:

You made my point for me, EXACTLY.

 

[fdiskboy]

Unbelieveable, Classless,

You somehow got out of Russ's post that he was attacking you because you were black????

You need to take that chip of your shoulder, before you hurt someone with it.

Red, as usual, you are clueless.

Classless and clueless--how fitting.

 

[Pennstate]

I've been hessitant to get into any debates recently partly because of such lynch mob mentality. But mainly because it's POINTLESS. There's no agreed basis for debate. The conservatives here despise sources like MSNBC, CNN, ABC, while the liberals won't consider newsmax.com, cnsnew.com and etc as credible. So what's the point of arguing when we can't even agree on the credibility of these sources. AS far as race as an issue in debates here, I can clearly see why the insistance that race is not an issue might be offensive to classy. Race IS an issue in the real world we live in. To debate real world issues while not considering real-world circumstances is absurd. /edit It's like debating WWII with a jewish person and saying that the holocust is not an issue. We don't live in a perfect world. IT was ONLY 40 some years ago that blacks can't vote in the South, and some of them killed because they tried. It's hard to see another person's point of view unless you had the same experience. (Ever read &quot;Black Like Me&quot;?) It'd be foolish to claim that none of us have any hidden prejudices. It's just a matter of more or less.

But getting back to the lynch mob and/or self-superiority mentality, I don't think even Russ is innocent of such charges. Anybody that has been around since last year will have seen some of the nasty political debates full with &quot;Mob&quot; behaviors which he was sometimes part of. And any junior members that have criticized Russ will definately see his prejudice against new AT members. I personally think it's foolish to think that your member status will affect of weight of your argument in a debate. And that includes Elite members (especially when this is an Off-Topic forum). I am not saying I not guity of some of these mob mentality charges, but when was the last time you saw a &quot;liberal mob&quot; in a thread? Well, I've spent too much time in this thread already.

 

[SirFshAlot]

preaching to the choir, Michael

the ones that understand your point are most likely already in line with your reasoning

 

[Michael]

Optimus - Starting a thread with the express purpose of attacking someone is against forum rules. In the recent threads that I read, the personal attacks started after the mass piling on. Like I said, multiple, public attacks in a lynch mob style will lead to that response almost every time. Responding bumps threads and flaming keeps the offensive thread alive. I bet it would vanish really, really quickly if one person responded and then it was ignored.

I also debate about these &quot;good&quot; members leaving. Things got heated and personal after they entered the thread. If they're leaving the whole site because of the one thread, then I wonder what were they expecting? I can see that some topics may make OT somewhat uncomfortable for women, but I can pick almost any racial, political, religious, or socio-economic group and say the same. If a woman or two came into a thread and complained about the topic or choice of words, that would be one thing. When a bunch of men come in and start pontificating how the thread might be offensive to women without there even being a peep from a woman, that's where I draw the line. I actually do not have a huge amount of sympathy for the women who come in, comment negatively, and get flamed in return. Again, what were they expecting?

classy - I'm pretty sure that Russ and I have the same feelings about your contributions. We both cannot abide non-blacks complaining about and suggesting solutions for problems within the black community and then all attacking you, a black, when you offer your point of view. I know I typically do not agree with your proposed solutions (nor, I suspect, does Russ). However, I also typically do not agree with the other proposed solutions and feel that your experience has more validity than what others are proposing.

Michael

 

[classy]

Well the same groupies as usual. BoberFett, Fdick. Its amazing. You clowns are always crying race is never an issue. As most of you scream. I am not a racist. I have read that line a million and one times here. It is always followed with a BUT. Then you proceed to talk about your hateful color biased trash and then when I who am but maybe 4-5 that post here on a regular basis begins to present a different arguement its either wrong or racist. Oh and all the I have black friends is bogus also. Only on this board do I find this. Not anywhere else. You will find the occasional conversation but not the steady stream of racial stuff like here. And no I won't kiss your @ss and agree with your onesided views on life for black people. If I am so racist why is that there are few blacks posting here? After all its just you guys posting here? Why are blacks in big numbers on other OT boards and not here? Could it be the attitude that most of claim you don't have?

 

[Yeeny]

I actually do not have a huge amount of sympathy for the women who come in, comment negatively, and get flamed in return. Again, what were they expecting?

Well you may call someone stating their opinion a negative comment, but the last I checked that was an opinion. And when someone attacks them personally back, whether its calling them a fat chick or telling them to shut the **** up, that is wrong no matter how you color it.

Hey look, we are still disagreeing.

 

[SirFshAlot]

how would anyone know what color the skin of a character here was if it wasn't revealed?
and why would it need to be revealed here?
unless it was needed for a racist comment

I can't think of any time here where I needed to say what color my skin was to be heard.

 

[Total Refected Power]

classy:

If it makes you feel any better I didn't know who you were until these posts, black or any other color.

Now, to answer some of your questions. Do I have black friends? No. I don't really have many close friends at all anymore. Family and career takes up a lot of time. Do I have black co-workers? Nope. There aren't many blacks in science. Go to a national meeting and it is mostly white and Asian. Did I associtate with blacks as a kid. Yes. Sports and school mostly. Did I even know that they were a different race? Not really. They were just Mr. Johnson, or Mrs. Williams. Friendly faces who I see occaisionally when I go back home and meet at the market. So what does that make me? Do I have black neighbors? Yes. Nice, quiet neighbors. I have no ill will towards others and my career has exposed me largely to the Asian culture which has been an education. No one is perfect but I do the best I can to be fair to those who cross my path.

Peace.

 

[Optimus]

Thanks for your reply, Michael - I would still disagree with several of your points:



<< Starting a thread with the express purpose of attacking someone is against forum rules >>



Just to clarify to anyone reading - I have never started a thread attacking anyone. A history search will hold that up.



<< Responding bumps threads and flaming keeps the offensive thread alive. I bet it would vanish really, really quickly if one person responded and then it was ignored. >>



I agree that sometimes ignoring is the best way of dealing with it - although it can also spur the poster on with new reassurance that this behavior is tolerated and they may well post far worse to gain attention.



<< When a bunch of men come in and start pontificating how the thread might be offensive to women without there even being a peep from a woman, that's where I draw the line. >>



Again, I withhold any flaming until:

a) The person/group being attacked does respond having been offended
and
b) The attacks from the original poster begin.

Up to those points I will debate and post counter-points, as well as my opinion.

I feel that a balance is needed - we should not let this board become hostile, politically correct, paranoid, or give attention to those seeking it through negative means. However, there is a balance between that and letting these twits run amok with nary a word from the regular board members. I feel that my following those 2 guidelines above keeps within that balance as far as my participation on this board. Again, I am willing to listen to input from the board regulars and adjust my response accordingly (although no one seems very interested - told ya I'm not known around here! )

 

[Michael]

GirlFriday - Maybe I should be more specific. I don't have a great deal of sympathy for someone (a woman in this case, but gender is irrelevent in this case) who goes into a thread, expresses a contrary opinion (in a somewhat hostile manner), gets flamed, and then wants to take their ball and go home. When I read the thread, I noted that it got personal in response to what easily can be read as attacks on the original poster.

Michael

 

Many people on here dont believe in free speech.
But free speech with in the bounds that they deem worthy.

 

[Optimus]

Red - sorry, I think I'm mis-reading your post, because I can't tell if you are saying I shouldn't have replied to Michael or...?

I'm just debating this issue with Michael, on a friendly level with no flaming, insults... etc. In fact I think he makes some excellent points and I wanted to present some counterpoints, thats all.

I'm not following something, I'm sure...

 

[Ender510]

I agree with most of the points Michael has made. That is why I decided not to participate in the OT threads any longer.. because the &quot;cool people&quot; think they are cool and the &quot;mob attitude&quot; continues..

Many people may think that that's a good thing, fine. Do I care? Nope.. in case you guys don't remember me which I doubt, I was the one that started the thread of the traits/qualities I look for in women. I could also care less for those that feel people are being shunned away (such as the women). I have no regards as to respecting women better because of their sex. I treat everyone equally, 100% - regardless of whether or not they are women. Does that mean I should show less chivalry, no. I still hold doors open and insist on paying after dinner on a date.. but I don't give &quot;privledges&quot; or back someone up just BECAUSE they are a female.. respect is given when it is earned, not when it is expected.

BTW, I still don't think I did anything wrong by posting what I did.. laters

Relating to this thread, I find a lot of the posts made are becoming personal.. what's the fricken' point? People that need to go to that level only show their maturity level.. although I am sure most people would question the maturity level of the post I made as well, but cutting people down and telling them to &quot;suck a dick&quot; is just stupid sh*t..