AT epic fail in debt discussions

[her209]

As a matter of fact I don't. I practice what I preach......I tried credit one year, bought a few items I thought that I wanted and later realized that I was being reckless with my future. It did bite me, but not fatally so I learned a lesson. Been 100 percent debt free for years now. That's why I can see clearer than most about all this....because it doesn't affect me.

The lesson learned was that NOTHING is free. That money wasn't mine, though it sure felt like it.

You rent too?

 

[maluckey]

But if you have the money at time of purchase and 0% is offered? That's leverage and can be used to make you money.

Hmmm leveraging liquid assets. That's fine provided you can cover the outstanding 100 percent if called, otherwise it's debt. Unless you have THAT money set aside to cover in-full, it's speculation at best (a good BET, but no gaurantee) that you'll have the liquidity to repay the DEBT. IF no world event happens and no bubble burts and ruins your parade. .Com anyone...housing anyone...debt ceiling...etc you CAN make money. You can also make money by cutting costs...

Control your costs and you effectively make that difference as profit. No risk either.

Next!

 

[Engineer]

Hmmm leveraging liquid assets. That's fine provided you can cover the outstanding 100 percent if called, otherwise it's debt. Unless you have THAT money set aside to cover in-full, it's speculation at best (a good BET, but no gaurantee) that you'll have the liquidity to repay the DEBT. IF no world event happens and no bubble burts and ruins your parade. .Com anyone...housing anyone...debt ceiling...etc you CAN make money. You can also make money by cutting costs...

Control your costs and you effectively make that difference as profit. No risk either.

Next!

I stated that "if you have the money at time of purchase" and leverage it for profit while paying off the zero % loan. I did forget to mention placing it into something GUARANTEED, not something like playing the stock market. I just so happened to place mine in TBills (and yes, I also had enough cash outside of TBills to pay the loans off at one days notice if need be).

 

[maluckey]

You rent too?

No, I bought a coporate owned house under foreclosure after it sat for 9 months. I took a chunk out my savings, but still pay 115 dollars less per month after depreciation and figured in repairs. Let's just say that their loss = my gain, and the neighbors weren't happy with the price.

 

[maluckey]

stated that "if you have the money at time of purchase" and leverage it for profit while paying off the zero % loan. I did forget to mention placing it into something GUARANTEED, not something like playing the stock market. I just so happened to place mine in TBills (and yes, I also had enough cash outside of TBills to pay the loans off at one days notice if need be).

Then you're not incurring debt, just using liquidity to your advantage. Most people don't have that sort of slush fund. Good for you! I'll be there soon enough (3-5 years if all goes well).

 

[BarneyFife]

I have to agree. The key to life is being debt free and buying everything with cash. I don't want to hear crap about paying only x % interest and getting 10% in the stock market. You sleep better at night when your cars and house are paid for. I'm not at that point but hope to be within 10-12 years with the house. Car will be paid off by the winter. Will never buy a car with a loan again. Only cash.

 

[Engineer]

Then you're not incurring debt, just using liquidity to your advantage. Most people don't have that sort of slush fund. Good for you! I'll be there soon enough (3-5 years if all goes well).

I wish my wife would just let me pay off the damn car that she just bought. Don't know why in the world it mattered to her if we just paid cash for the damn thing. She was afraid of spending that much money for the car. First debt in over 5.5 years! *sigh*

 

[maluckey]

To the question of rent or buy...? A good one thown into the mix! I never sat sown and truly thought about it....until the last couple of years.

HMMMMM! Renting is not a bad thing. No real overhead overhead, and just a contract to say that you'll stay there for a while. It's sometimes a really good deal. No depreciation or maintenance or even insurance unless you buy renters insurance (which is cheaper than homeowners). Same utilities as a house, and you sometimes get a pool and a golf course membership (not always the greatest, but you don't have to maintain either) as a package deal.

Owning isn't always a great deal, especially if you have a mortgage. Maintenance, insurance, taxes and depreciation. It's sometimes a BAD deal. You can't predict the future. You lose your job, and unless your mortagage would be similar to average rent, even bankruptcy won't save your house from going to forclosure. I'm not talking at all about those who flip homes for profit. Too many got burned recently. That gravy train left the station.

That's not saying one = bad and the other good. That's just saying that each has a benefit. I rented for almost thirty years before I found the right opportunity at the right time and place. Still might be renting otherwise.

 

[her209]

No, I bought a coporate owned house under foreclosure after it sat for 9 months. I took a chunk out my savings, but still pay 115 dollars less per month after depreciation and figured in repairs. Let's just say that their loss = my gain, and the neighbors weren't happy with the price.

Sounds like you have a mortgage... that's debt.

 

[maluckey]

I wish my wife would just let me pay off the damn car that she just bought. Don't know why in the world it mattered to her if we just paid cash for the damn thing. She was afraid of spending that much money for the car. First debt in over 5.5 years! *sigh*

The first time I counted out cash on the table for a car (my wifes car) I was proud and sick at the same time. I never spent that much at once until we got the house. I'm still wondering if that was a good idea.

It doesn't seem real until you have it in your hand. Then it's all too real. My wife gets cash from the bank machine to pay for things because we found that we spend less that way.

 

[JSt0rm]

Sounds like you have a mortgage... that's debt.

Lets put malucky in charge. What could go wrong?

 

[maluckey]

Sounds like you have a mortgage... that's debt.

Good try, and if that's the best you have...

I paid with most of my my 30 years of savings. The Bank officer wasn't as surprised as I thought that he'd be. Apparently, after the crash, cheapskates like myself can afford homes and are coming out of hiding. I'm closer to fifty than I care to admit, so that's most of my savings. I still have about 9 months of income stashed in case I lose my job, but that's about it.

Back on topic....

I just saw on several news outlets that our leaders decided a BALANCED BUDGET is a good thing and it's likely that this deal will pass muster. Wow! I'm able to step off my self-superior soapbox at least until morning and these deals turn out to be no more than smoke and mirrors, especially since their not official yet...

 

[maluckey]

[quot]Lets put malucky in charge. What could go wrong? [/quote]

(scratches chin, shakes head and envisions the myriads of ways this could fail).

NOT!

I'd be the WORST leader EVER! I'd piss off most everyone, but at least being paralyzed by fear isn't a known shortcoming of mine. Nor is lying (another reason I'd fail in Washington)

 

[her209]

Good try, and if that's the best you have...

I paid with most of my my 30 years of savings. The Bank officer wasn't as surprised as I thought that he'd be. Apparently, after the crash, cheapskates like myself can afford homes and are coming out of hiding. I'm closer to fifty than I care to admit, so that's most of my savings. I still have about 9 months of income stashed in case I lose my job, but that's about it.

OK, I just want get it on record that you paid for your house in full with your savings because your post made it sound like you have a monthly payment of some kind... so you think everyone should save up enough money until they're close to 50 when they can finally afford to buy their house outright?

 

[ScottFern]

Do you really think it costs $685.1 billion dollars a year to protect America? Really?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States

UNNECESSARY!

What's wrong with returning to Clinton-era top tax brackets for the rich? It's still much cheaper since the days of Eisenhower.

What's wrong with ending both unnecessary wars that cost us American lives?

You GOP/Tea Baggers can't have it both ways either. You can't sit here and bash Obama and say where are the jobs when all I hear is tax cuts will spur the economy back to recovery. It hasn't. The only people who are doing well are rich people.

These Republican "ideas" are running us into the ground.

I just can't fathom how everyday middle class Americans want to end successful programs that directly impact their lives and the ones we love. Medicare and Social Security give quality of life to millions of people WHO PAID INTO THEM. THEY AREN'T HAND OUTS. Why sacrifice the people who worked hard and expect to get what they deserve.

 

[Nebor]

Do you really think it costs $685.1 billion dollars a year to protect America? Really?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States

Notice that since we start spending way more on defense, there haven't been any more terrorist attacks on US soil. Must be working.

:whiste:

 

[ScottFern]

Notice that since we start spending way more on defense, there haven't been any more terrorist attacks on US soil. Must be working.

:whiste:

Negative. We are just paying attention now and taking their threats seriously.

Funny, Canada spends $20 billion a year on defense and they haven't been attacked! They must be on to something.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Notice that since we start spending way more on defense, there haven't been any more terrorist attacks on US soil. Must be working.
:whiste:

I advocate apple trees. Since I planted mine there have been no tiger attacks in my county.

 

[CallMeJoe]

The Republican controlled house passed Paul Ryan's $4 trillion in cuts...

When some of those same cuts were advocated by Senator Reid in his deficit cutting proposal, Speaker Boehner called them gimmicks and accused the Leader of pushing smoke and mirrors..

 

[CallMeJoe]

This is why oversimplification is stupid. People who approach situations like this saying "OMG, it's so simple", think they are so much smarter than the folks who can't solve the problem. But the truth is that they're just throwing out all the complexity and saying that it doesn't matter. Well hell, ANYONE can "solve" a problem a that way...

Another H.L. Mencken quotation I like:
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

Do you really think it costs $685.1 billion dollars a year to protect America? Really?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States

UNNECESSARY!

What's wrong with returning to Clinton-era top tax brackets for the rich? It's still much cheaper since the days of Eisenhower.

What's wrong with ending both unnecessary wars that cost us American lives?

You GOP/Tea Baggers can't have it both ways either. You can't sit here and bash Obama and say where are the jobs when all I hear is tax cuts will spur the economy back to recovery. It hasn't. The only people who are doing well are rich people.

These Republican "ideas" are running us into the ground.

I just can't fathom how everyday middle class Americans want to end successful programs that directly impact their lives and the ones we love. Medicare and Social Security give quality of life to millions of people WHO PAID INTO THEM. THEY AREN'T HAND OUTS. Why sacrifice the people who worked hard and expect to get what they deserve.

The Tea Party members dont want an end to entitlements nor any cutbacks in the military.

Just some numbers:

Total Tax Receipts 2010: 2.1 trillion

Total expenses as TP would want them: debt interest - 200 billion + ss - 701n + med - 793b + defense - 700b = roughly 2.3 trillion

So excluding a whole range of OTHER expenses somehow we are going to balance our budget and pay off our debt without raising taxes?

 

[Craig234]

Another H.L. Mencken quotation I like:
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

Just for accuracy, that's often how it's quoted, but was actually:

Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and wrong.

A couple more from him, the first fitting the tea party debt mess and many other examples.:

Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.

Laws are no longer made by a rational process of public discussion; they are made by a process of blackmail and intimidation, and they are executed in the same manner. The typical lawmaker of today is a man wholly devoid of principle — a mere counter in a grotesque and knavish game. If the right pressure could be applied to him, he would be cheerfully in favor of polygamy, astrology or cannibalism.

 

[Nebor]

I advocate apple trees. Since I planted mine there have been no tiger attacks in my county.

Sweet. I'll submit a request to the US Army acquisition corps when I get back to the office this morning. I think we could probably deploy Lockheed Martin apple trees throughout Afghanistan for no more than $20 million each.

 

[sm625]

That being said, let's talk about facts for a second

1. The United States is borrowing more than it makes
2. Nobody has a viable plan to fix it
3. The debt ceiling is really irrelevant if we don't fix number one and number two

This is what happens when you have a controlled media that projects a false image of freedom. People buy the propaganda much more easily than say a more soviet style. But heck, most people today dont even know what soviet propaganda is, much less how to compare it to US corporate propaganda.

Our debt system can be summarized as follows: There are two ways to raise revenue. Tax the people directly for the needed revenue, or borrow it into existence. If you tax it, the people get angry. So you borrow it. When you borrow new money into existence, you dilute the money supply, which causes prices to rise. This is the exact same thing as a tax! You also have to pay interest to bondholders. So they over the years gain more % of the wealth simply by doing nothing except loaning money, most of which came from nothing more than interest payments.

The media is primarily controlled by people with billions in US bonds. They receive interest payments for loaning the government money. They therefore have a vested interest in controlling the media to steer the people towards more borrowing. And why not? More borrowing means more interest. This is how a country is hollowed out by the rich, leading to complete destruction. The assets of the wealthy will be liquidated by socialist redistribution, or revolution.

 

[z1ggy]

The reason this country is both great and self destructing is capitalism. People complain about the super rich and the super poor. However, as long as we are a free market society, that will never change.

Some of the best solutions to fix certain problems are the most harsh. People would rather be lied to and live in their happy little bubble and prance around then get shit done. We kick the can down the road further and further and never really fix anything. At this rate, I am scared for my children and their children for what our country will be liek for them.