Asscough Busted

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Klixxer
What's your opinion on coherent persons wishes to end their lives, i mean like a perfectly healthy 23 year old or something, should that be illegal?

How do you "punish" a dead person?

CkG

So are you saying that it should not be illegal?

The point of the law, if you are not familiar with it is so that the 95-98% of all suicide attempts that were not successful could be stopped from attempting again.

Your answer really does not say anything at all, so please reply again.

And should it be illegal to offer non physical assistance, such as advice?

 

[Moonbeam]

First die and I'll see what I can figure out.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Klixxer
What's your opinion on coherent persons wishes to end their lives, i mean like a perfectly healthy 23 year old or something, should that be illegal?

How do you "punish" a dead person?

CkG

So are you saying that it should not be illegal?

The point of the law, if you are not familiar with it is so that the 95-98% of all suicide attempts that were not successful could be stopped from attempting again.

Your answer really does not say anything at all, so please reply again.

And should it be illegal to offer non physical assistance, such as advice?

Umm - think about it. If a 23 year old kills himself(suicide) how can you "punish" him for breaking the law? How do you enforce your law against a dead person? He's dead. Your question was silly -which is why I posed the question on how you punish a dead person.

The issue here is physician assisted suicide - not "normal" suicide.

CkG

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Klixxer
What's your opinion on coherent persons wishes to end their lives, i mean like a perfectly healthy 23 year old or something, should that be illegal?

How do you "punish" a dead person?

CkG

So are you saying that it should not be illegal?

The point of the law, if you are not familiar with it is so that the 95-98% of all suicide attempts that were not successful could be stopped from attempting again.

Your answer really does not say anything at all, so please reply again.

And should it be illegal to offer non physical assistance, such as advice?

Umm - think about it. If a 23 year old kills himself(suicide) how can you "punish" him for breaking the law? How do you enforce your law against a dead person? He's dead. Your question was silly -which is why I posed the question on how you punish a dead person.

The issue here is physician assisted suicide - not "normal" suicide.

CkG

Did you forget to read my post?

There is a law that makes suicide (not assisted) illegal, do you believe that that law is silly?

Now that is as straight as i can figure out to ask the question, a simple yes or no will do if you don't feel like explaining your viewpoint on the matter.

I think i worded that a bit wrong, it sounded like i was patronizing you, believe me, i was not, i would however be thankful if you would answer the question.

 

[Moonbeam]

Suicide is not normal.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Suicide is not normal.

One mans normality is another mans abnormality, who are you to judge?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Suicide is not normal.

One mans normality is another mans abnormality, who are you to judge?

We do not share the same worldview. You believe, I think, that truth is relative. I believe that it is absolute and objective. How do I know? In the same way that I knew the rumor I heard that I was dead was false.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Suicide is not normal.

One mans normality is another mans abnormality, who are you to judge?

We do not share the same worldview. You believe, I think, that truth is relative. I believe that it is absolute and objective. How do I know? In the same way that I knew the rumor I heard that I was dead was false.

You are wrong, i think that truth is absolute. Forget about my previous post.

When it comes to suicide, it is a choice, an absolute choice, i believe we all make it at some point, but this differes as experiences differ, while it may seem wrong to you it may seem right to me.

The truth is still absolute, the fact that suicide means death is still absolute, that it is an individual choice is still a fact.

It is my view that if i were to choose this way out society should help me and support my wish instead of trying to prevent it. For me this is something i have thought a lot about after experiencing a lot of things i don't really want to talk about here. Let me have my injection or whatever method i choose and the rest of the world can go on just like before.

Do you see my point?

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Suicide is not normal.

Being terminally ill isn't normal either. Having wait for the end in inhumane circumstances, with extreme pains and having no control over your own bodily functions anymore (and therefor feeling you lost your dignity) is not normal.

Those things happen though, and by assisted suicide you can spare them the indignity and pain. Of course that's no fun, letting someone die like that, when you can watch them suffer instead. Always a nice Christian view, that you can let yourself be treated by doctors in order to get better, but that you cannot ask them to end the pain because 'you have to do what God wants'... If God wanted you to become ill, didn't you side with the devil by trying to get better against his will? Or, when using Christian logic: If he starts calling for you by giving you a terminal disease, shouldn't you heed the call and go to him? I thought he wasn't a sadistic god who got off on seeing people suffer, so he should not want you to suffer that pain either.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Skyclad1uhm1

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Suicide is not normal.

Being terminally ill isn't normal either. Having wait for the end in inhumane circumstances, with extreme pains and having no control over your own bodily functions anymore (and therefor feeling you lost your dignity) is not normal.

Those things happen though, and by assisted suicide you can spare them the indignity and pain. Of course that's no fun, letting someone die like that, when you can watch them suffer instead. Always a nice Christian view, that you can let yourself be treated by doctors in order to get better, but that you cannot ask them to end the pain because 'you have to do what God wants'... If God wanted you to become ill, didn't you side with the devil by trying to get better against his will? Or, when using Christian logic: If he starts calling for you by giving you a terminal disease, shouldn't you heed the call and go to him? I thought he wasn't a sadistic god who got off on seeing people suffer, so he should not want you to suffer that pain either.

Is your last name De Bris or do you just Ramble? If you know what i am speaking of you know what i am speaking of, otherwise, just disregard that remark.

Excellent post, couldn't have said it better.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: Fausto
Good. It's not anyone's business to interfere if a terminally ill person wants to die with dignity. :|

it's not anyones buisness if a 18 year old girl want's to kill herself either.

'my body my choice' is the saying, isn't it?

The 9th Circuit huh? Yeah that decision will last

i know then, they ruled that the boy-scouts are actualy a hate group 🙂 yea, they're with it when it comes to america and what all it stands for.

BTW -the USSC has ruled there is no Constitutional right to doctor-assisted suicide.

looks like the 9th is just sending another over-turn to the SC.

If you do not have freedom of your own body, then what freedom do you have?

freedom from a society that encourages you to fall pray to depression by killing yourself?

If you do not have freedom of your own body, then what freedom do you have?

all freedom is in a box, otherwise the freedom to rule my neighbor with my guns would be avalable to.

What's your opinion on coherent persons wishes to end their lives, i mean like a perfectly healthy 23 year old or something, should that be illegal?

no such animal.

First die and I'll see what I can figure out.

been their, done that, got the T-shirt twice:
on says "apsolute shroom' the other "first babtist church edinburg"

Let me have my injection or whatever method i choose and the rest of the world can go on just like before.

Do you see my point?

I do, but its lacking because their is no such thing as a person in good psychological condition that would want to end their life...

but that IS opinion, as i remember a time when i thought that no one in good psycholgical condition would want to extend their life.

as such: i sugest we let democracy sort it all out.

Being terminally ill isn't normal either.

Hum? then your not in good psychological condition to choose suicide if your terminally ill either.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain

Originally posted by: Fausto
Good. It's not anyone's business to interfere if a terminally ill person wants to die with dignity. :|

it's not anyones buisness if a 18 year old girl want's to kill herself either.

'my body my choice' is the saying, isn't it?

The 9th Circuit huh? Yeah that decision will last

i know then, they ruled that the boy-scouts are actualy a hate group 🙂 yea, they're with it when it comes to america and what all it stands for.

BTW -the USSC has ruled there is no Constitutional right to doctor-assisted suicide.

looks like the 9th is just sending another over-turn to the SC.

If you do not have freedom of your own body, then what freedom do you have?

freedom from a society that encourages you to fall pray to depression by killing yourself?

If you do not have freedom of your own body, then what freedom do you have?

all freedom is in a box, otherwise the freedom to rule my neighbor with my guns would be avalable to.

What's your opinion on coherent persons wishes to end their lives, i mean like a perfectly healthy 23 year old or something, should that be illegal?

no such animal.

First die and I'll see what I can figure out.

been their, done that, got the T-shirt twice:
on says "apsolute shroom' the other "first babtist church edinburg"

Let me have my injection or whatever method i choose and the rest of the world can go on just like before.

Do you see my point?

I do, but its lacking because their is no such thing as a person in good psychological condition that would want to end their life...

but that IS opinion, as i remember a time when i thought that no one in good psycholgical condition would want to extend their life.

as such: i sugest we let democracy sort it all out.

Being terminally ill isn't normal either.

Hum? then your not in good psychological condition to choose suicide if your terminally ill either.

No such animal? ehhh, quit with the crack it is rotting your brain.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Klixxer
No such animal? ehhh, quit with the crack it is rotting your brain.

His point is supported by much of the health industry, and makes sense on a physiological level. Self preservation is the biggest instinct that all animals share. Suicide directly goes against that. So if someone wants to commit suicide, they are more than a little off.

Or, I think that's what he meant. 😉

 

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Klixxer
No such animal? ehhh, quit with the crack it is rotting your brain.

His point is supported by much of the health industry, and makes sense on a physiological level. Self preservation is the biggest instinct that all animals share. Suicide directly goes against that. So if someone wants to commit suicide, they are more than a little off.

Or, I think that's what he meant. 😉

Hey, if one threatens suicide and EMS is called, you lost all your rights to refusal of service. No rational human being would want to take their own life.

BTW, I am for assested suicides and if one wants to take their life, fine by me. Just get it right the first time.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Klixxer
No such animal? ehhh, quit with the crack it is rotting your brain.

His point is supported by much of the health industry, and makes sense on a physiological level. Self preservation is the biggest instinct that all animals share. Suicide directly goes against that. So if someone wants to commit suicide, they are more than a little off.

Or, I think that's what he meant. 😉

It is not supported by statistics, most suicidals are between 14-23.

Maybe they are just too smart to be living a lie? Does that make them more than a little off?

I have known several suicidal persons in my life, cutters and SI's too, being stuck in a war zone will mess with your brain, it is not uncommon, what you are forgetting is that you and me come from two entirely different worlds.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: FallenHero

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Klixxer
No such animal? ehhh, quit with the crack it is rotting your brain.

His point is supported by much of the health industry, and makes sense on a physiological level. Self preservation is the biggest instinct that all animals share. Suicide directly goes against that. So if someone wants to commit suicide, they are more than a little off.

Or, I think that's what he meant. 😉

Hey, if one threatens suicide and EMS is called, you lost all your rights to refusal of service. No rational human being would want to take their own life.

BTW, I am for assested suicides and if one wants to take their life, fine by me. Just get it right the first time.

Unfortunantly this is the implications of the law that makes suicide illegal.

Getting it right is harder than most people think, 900 valiums won't do it, slitting your wrists won't do it, 95-98% of all attempts fail, there are stories about peope who have lobotomized themselfes with a shotgun, one guy shot himself FIVE times with a 22 and then hung himself.

So to do it right, you can't do it on impulse, you need to get the right gun, rig it up, or a good rope and a place where you will not be disturbed, a few years back there were a hibachi craze, you know the grills, light them, put them in a small contained area and go to sleep.

Or just burn your house down, who knows, this isn't a job that is easy to do.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Klixxer
No such animal? ehhh, quit with the crack it is rotting your brain.

His point is supported by much of the health industry, and makes sense on a physiological level. Self preservation is the biggest instinct that all animals share. Suicide directly goes against that. So if someone wants to commit suicide, they are more than a little off.

Or, I think that's what he meant. 😉

...a state law that allowed them to prescribe lethal doses of medication to terminally ill patients who wished to die.

This isn't about 15 year old girls who just broke up with their first boyfriend.

Half a year ago my stepfather died of cancer. In the end he was lying in his own filth, as 'there were no nurses available to clean him up' (they forbode my mother to do it or even help doing it as he was in the hospital and it 'had to be done by nurses'), and wasn't administered a pain killer 'as the doctor had to check whether further treatment was useful still', and died in agony, feeling horrible about how he was lying there.

Do you agree with Ashcroft that that is the way people should die? I bet that, if he ever gets cancer and the pain becomes unbearable, he will 'die peacefully in his sleep' by help of an overdosis painkillers. He's the typical type of wimp who likes to see other people suffer, but would not want it himself.

If there is no way you will be able to recover, and all that the future will bring is extreme agony, why would you be forced to go through with that? Anyone who thinks it should not be allowed for terminally ill people with such diseases to die with dignity either never saw someone die that way, or is a sadistic bastard.

 

[chess9]

Skyclad:

Yes, I've seen it in my family and friends. It's one of the things about growing old-you get to watch the agony of death. One of my chess player friend's father-an engineer from Holland who had a brilliant career at Bell Labs-specifically, and in writing, asked that he not be kept on life support. Nothwithstanding his wishes, and contrary to his son's strongly expressed feelings, the hospital refused and kept him on life support for three days down in Ft. Lauderdale. The son called me about it and all I could do was to give him the name of a lawyer I knew in Miami. But, the kid was devastated and horrified that it could happen to him as well.

Euthanasia makes a lot of sense to me and is probably the most humane thing we can do to give people a short and painless death.

-Robert

 

[Klixxer]

CoE

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
"The risks and consequences of physician-assisted suicide are simply too great"

Oh, and I don't see how Ashcroft was "busted":roll:

BTW -the USSC has ruled there is no Constitutional right to doctor-assisted suicide.

CkG

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Klixxer

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Painman
"The risks and consequences of physician-assisted suicide are simply too great"

Yeah... it might... KILL SOMEONE! OH TEH NOES!!! :roll:

"I have always expressed my strong opposition to physician-assisted suicide. I believe that it is wrong and have always believed it to be wrong."

CkG

The land of the somewhat free? If you do not have freedom of your own body, then what freedom do you have?

Suicide is illegal as it is, in the US, assisted or otherwise.

"there is a significant distinction between assisting in death and allowing death to occur. Not only is this an important legal distinction, it is also a distinction of deep moral and ethical implications."

CkG

Wow, I didn't realize CAD is A$$crofts twin. That explains a lot.

Heil A$$croft!!!

Heil CAD!!!

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Klixxer
No such animal? ehhh, quit with the crack it is rotting your brain.

His point is supported by much of the health industry, and makes sense on a physiological level. Self preservation is the biggest instinct that all animals share. Suicide directly goes against that. So if someone wants to commit suicide, they are more than a little off.

Or, I think that's what he meant. 😉

It's sad when people, who can otherwise function normaly, are taken by depression and think that offing themselves is the best way out of the problems of life.

If you have consistant or naging suisidal thoughts you have a mental problem... of course you should be thinking everyone that thinks this has a mental problem, ie:

No such animal? ehhh, quit with the crack it is rotting your brain.

Noone who is of sound mind and body wants to kill themselves, wanting to kill yourself is a definition of not having a sound mind.

This isn't about 15 year old girls who just broke up with their first boyfriend.

The principle of "my body my choice" needs to be able to be applied 'blindly' otherwise it's an invalid principle. The 'freedom' of an 18 year old girl to kill herself because her boy frend left her, or for whatever reason, is certenly somthing we can all agree shouldn't be granted.

and wasn't administered a pain killer 'as the doctor had to check whether further treatment was useful still', and died in agony, feeling horrible about how he was lying there.

I completely agree with someone's right to deny treatment. I completely agree with a terminal patient?s right to be given whatever pain-relievers he wants, shy of a suicidal dosage.

But humans have the ability to come back from almost anything, how many people living a few days in suffering is worth one man living on? A question hardest felt by those that must see family members live that suffering. I?d prefer to say we medicate all those that want it, and don't tempt those that want to fight on with the easey out of forfiting their lives.

Wow, I didn't realize CAD is A$$crofts twin. That explains a lot.

That?s quite ignorant of you. The difference between refusal of treatment and killing yourself is a major ethical sticking point.

here are some more examples of ethical sticking points:
when a human is a 'person' and does that matter?
what kind of human sexual activity should be tolerated by society?
what items or substances should be contraband?
.. and so on.

Just because you have a view and someone disagrees with you doesn?t make them stupid, but that you can't recognize that there are legitimate arguments across the spectrum does show your ignorance.

But then ignorance isn?t something to be ashamed of, if you are trying to become more knowledgeable.

 

[Red Dawn]

Kind of hard to have a sound mind when your insides are ravaged by cancer and the mind numbing drugs you take barely fend off the unimaginable pain.

 

[LordMagnusKain]

I agree, so how can someone in that state make a rational decision to end his life? How can a family member be thought to be in a rational state of mind seeing that sort of pain?

Honestly, I?ve got no idea what?s right in this situation; for me it still comes back to this:

Humans have the ability to come back from almost anything, how many people living a few days in suffering is worth one man living on?

For the family of the people that suffer... probably none.
For the family of those that live on... probably as many as it takes.

For me, I?ve got no idea... but I?d prefer not tempt people, who might otherwise fight for life, with suicide.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
I agree, so how can someone in that state make a rational decision about weather or not he should off himself? How can a family member be thought to be in a rational state of mind seeing that sort of pain?

Honestly, I?ve got no idea what?s right in this situation; for me it still comes back to this:

Humans have the ability to come back from almost anything, how many people living a few days in suffering is worth one man living on?

For the family of the people that suffer... probably none.
For the family of those that live on... probably as many as it takes.

For me, I?ve got no idea... but I?d prefer not tempt people, who might otherwise fight for life, with suicide.

You you would rather them suffer unimaginable pain?

 

[LordMagnusKain]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: LordMagnusKain
I agree, so how can someone in that state make a rational decision about weather or not he should off himself? How can a family member be thought to be in a rational state of mind seeing that sort of pain?

Honestly, I?ve got no idea what?s right in this situation; for me it still comes back to this:

Humans have the ability to come back from almost anything, how many people living a few days in suffering is worth one man living on?

For the family of the people that suffer... probably none.
For the family of those that live on... probably as many as it takes.

For me, I?ve got no idea... but I?d prefer not tempt people, who might otherwise fight for life, with suicide.

You you would rather them suffer unimaginable pain?

no. Id rather that they provide pain medication to the extent requested by the person suffering shy a lethal dose.

but if that's not an option:

Well, I?ve got no idea; I can't firmly say one side or another is right.