assault weapon ban: wonderful woman talks to panel in DC

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: Matt2

Yeah but how many people go out and say, "Hey, I think I'm going to run over someone with my car today."

Guns on the other hand are used to kill people. A person wants to kill someone they get a gun and use it. Guns facilitate premeditated murder. I know it's a minority of gun owners, but it happens. If no one had guns, it wouldnt be so easy to kill someone.

Here is the root of your fallacious argument. You assume it is "easy" to kill with a gun, and you assume that other methods are "less easy" and therefore prohibitive by that very nature.
A motivated killer will achieve that goal regardless.
Drunk drivers kill far more people daily than guns do, they just don't get the headlines, unless it's a sports figure or celebrity behind the wheel.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Atheus

Well since you ask so nicely...

Firstly, I have nothing against 'owning guns' as such, in fact I'd quite like to take up hunting some day and I will need a rifle for that. If I wanted to take up shooting as a sport I would need a single shot pistol.

Most would think self-defensive a lot more practical than hunting as a reason to own a gun. Since food is pretty available.

A single shot pistol would have you reloading more than shooting, but you are the expert here I guess.

Originally posted by: Atheus
These firearms should be allowed, but they should be strictly controlled. Tests and training should be required before sale, ammunition should be limited, and people should *under no circumstances* be allowed to carry a firearm on the street - there is no purpose to this other than to kill another human being, whether in defense or otherwise. For this reason I would ban semiauto handguns, as the only purpose of these is to carry on the street, and to kill human beings.

I am beginning to think this is all about you being a coward, just the fact that above you mention you would be afraid to comment on things if you knew someone may be carrying a gun. Just because someone owns a gun, doesn't mean they are looking to use it. You'd actually be surprised how many people may be carrying or at the least have a gun near their person.

It seems you are one of those wack jobs that probably make idle threats or pretend to have a gun on them while arguing. Someone calls your bluff one day and they'd be in the right.

Originally posted by: Atheus
But, you say, if we make handguns illegal then only criminals will have handguns. Well I say police it! Search people! Put them to rot in jail for 20 years if they carry on the street - that will make them think twice.

Ideas like this should land you in jail for 20 years. It's a good thing you are not in this country...yet still I am sure if this was enforced; you'd be one of the bleeding hearts stating 'hey we should let this guy off, he has a family'.

Originally posted by: Atheus
Of course the ideal situation is to have the public at least equal to the criminals, but wouldn't it be better if both were 'weak' rather than 'powerful'? Fists rather than guns, as it were?

You seem to have a lot of faith in your government to always be on the side of your views. Being from London, you'd have thought a little history may have sunk in.

 

[alm4rr]

yea, let the mentally ill and domestic abusers have their machine guns!

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: alm4rr
yea, let the mentally ill and domestic abusers have their machine guns!

It is illegal for the mentally ill and those with criminal records to buy, or possess firearms. No one here has argued against that.

Nice straw man, though.

 

[DainBramaged]

Wow. Good for her.

 

[math20]

Can someone explain to me what an assault weapon is?

I am pretty sure it is just a hunting rifle with some evil looking plastic on it.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: math20
Can someone explain to me what an assault weapon is?

I am pretty sure it is just a hunting rifle with some evil looking plastic on it.

That's about it.

 

[Vinfinite]

Originally posted by: Canai
marked for later.

same

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: ggnl

Originally posted by: Canai
marked for later.

ditto.

Anyone want to summarize her position?

she was in the Lubbys in texas when that crazy dude crashed his truck through the window and started killing everybody inside. she is pissed at the law makers for making assult weapons illegal because they have no "sporting value". she blast them by saying that the 2nd ammendment isnt about hunting, its about the citizens right to protect themselves from people like you and points to the panel.

That doesn't make any sense. Does she want to carry an assault rifle around with her everywhere she goes?

Why would a handgun be insufficient in that circumstance?

Edit: Just to clarify, in that incident she wasn't allowed to even carry a concealed handgun. I'm fine with conceal carried handguns, but real assault weapons don't make any sense because it would be impossible to conceal carry most of them.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: math20
Can someone explain to me what an assault weapon is?

I am pretty sure it is just a hunting rifle with some evil looking plastic on it.

That's about it.

The actual definition is more in lines with a shorter length, high capacity, high powered rifle more suited to melee rather than distance shooting. They are also usually fully-automatic or easily converted.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: math20
Can someone explain to me what an assault weapon is?

I am pretty sure it is just a hunting rifle with some evil looking plastic on it.

That's about it.

The actual definition is more in lines with a shorter length, high capacity, high powered rifle more suited to melee rather than distance shooting. They are also usually fully-automatic or easily converted.

People ignorant of guns should not post in gun threads.

There is NO diffference mechanically between a semi-auto hunting rifle, and an assault rifle. The differences are PURELY aesthetic.

NONE of the rifles banned in the assualt rifle ban were fully auto. MOST semi auto guns are easily converted to full auto by their very nature.

None of the ban addressed length of the barrel, only folding shoulder stocks

Fully auto guns were banned back in the 30s and only people with class III licenses can get them.

So please, stop trying to act like you know what you're talking about. With a few simple cosmetic changes ANY semi-auto hunting rifle can be made into a dreaded "assault weapon."

The official description of "Assault rifle" by the ban:

Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:
*Folding or telescoping stock
*Conspicuous pistol grip
*Bayonet mount
*Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
*Grenade launcher

Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines and two or more of the following:
*Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
*Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or silencer
*Barrel shroud that can be used as a hand-hold
*Unloaded weight of 50 oz or more
*A semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm

Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
*Folding or telescoping stock
*Pistol grip
*Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
*Detachable magazine

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: math20
Can someone explain to me what an assault weapon is?

I am pretty sure it is just a hunting rifle with some evil looking plastic on it.

That's about it.

The actual definition is more in lines with a shorter length, high capacity, high powered rifle more suited to melee rather than distance shooting. They are also usually fully-automatic or easily converted.

What amused said, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

 

[crt1530]

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: math20
Can someone explain to me what an assault weapon is?

I am pretty sure it is just a hunting rifle with some evil looking plastic on it.

That's about it.

The actual definition is more in lines with a shorter length, high capacity, high powered rifle more suited to melee rather than distance shooting. They are also usually fully-automatic or easily converted.

People ignorant of guns should not post in gun threads.

There is NO diffference mechanically between a semi-auto hunting rifle, and an assault rifle. The differences are PURELY aesthetic.

NONE of the rifles banned in the assualt rifle ban were fully auto. MOST semi auto guns are easily converted to full auto by their very nature.

None of the ban addressed length of the barrel, only folding shoulder stocks

Fully auto guns were banned back in the 30s and only people with class III licenses can get them.

So please, stop trying to act like you know what you're talking about. With a few simple cosmetic changes ANY semi-auto hunting rifle can be made into a dreaded "assault weapon."

Technically, an assault rifle must have selective fire capabilities. In the last 15-20 years all of the moron politicians who don't know the difference between a magazine and a clip or what a barrel shroud is have decided that "assault rifles" include anything that doesn't look like an early twentieth century hunting rifle (see below). I know you (Amused) know the difference, but most people on here have no idea that for a rifle to be an assault rifle, it must have full auto capabilities. Gun control advocates don't want us to have guns. Banning what they call "assault rifles" is just one of their stepping stones on the way to abolishing the second amendment.

From Wikipedia:

Primarily limited to the United States, the term assault weapon is a political term, separate from the military definition, used to describe a variety of semi-automatic firearms that have certain features associated with military or police firearms. The 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban, which expired on September 13, 2004, defined the rifle type of assault weapon as a semiautomatic firearm with the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and two or more of the following:

Folding or telescoping stock
Conspicuous pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
Grenade launcher

A common public misconception persists that the assault weapons ban restricted weapons capable of fully automatic fire, such as assault rifles and machine guns. Fully automatic weapons, however, were unaffected by the ban, and have been continuously and heavily regulated since the National Firearms Act of 1934 was passed. Subsequent laws such as the Gun Control Act of 1968 and the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 also affected the importation and civilian ownership of fully automatic firearms, the latter fully prohibiting sales of newly-manufactured machine guns to non-law enforcement.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: crt1530

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: math20
Can someone explain to me what an assault weapon is?

I am pretty sure it is just a hunting rifle with some evil looking plastic on it.

That's about it.

The actual definition is more in lines with a shorter length, high capacity, high powered rifle more suited to melee rather than distance shooting. They are also usually fully-automatic or easily converted.

People ignorant of guns should not post in gun threads.

There is NO diffference mechanically between a semi-auto hunting rifle, and an assault rifle. The differences are PURELY aesthetic.

NONE of the rifles banned in the assualt rifle ban were fully auto. MOST semi auto guns are easily converted to full auto by their very nature.

None of the ban addressed length of the barrel, only folding shoulder stocks

Fully auto guns were banned back in the 30s and only people with class III licenses can get them.

So please, stop trying to act like you know what you're talking about. With a few simple cosmetic changes ANY semi-auto hunting rifle can be made into a dreaded "assault weapon."

Technically, an assault rifle must have selective fire capabilities. In the last 15-20 years all of the moron politicians who don't know the difference between a magazine and a clip or what a barrel shroud is have decided that "assault rifles" include anything that doesn't look like an early twentieth century hunting rifle (see below). I know you (Amused) know the difference, but most people on here have no idea that for a rifle to be an assault rifle, it must have full auto capabilities. Gun control advocates don't want us to have guns. Banning what they call "assault rifles" is just one of their stepping stones on the way to abolishing the second amendment.

From Wikipedia:

Primarily limited to the United States, the term assault weapon is a political term, separate from the military definition, used to describe a variety of semi-automatic firearms that have certain features associated with military or police firearms. The 1994 Federal Assault Weapons Ban, which expired on September 13, 2004, defined the rifle type of assault weapon as a semiautomatic firearm with the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and two or more of the following:

Folding or telescoping stock
Conspicuous pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
Grenade launcher

A common public misconception persists that the assault weapons ban restricted weapons capable of fully automatic fire, such as assault rifles and machine guns. Fully automatic weapons, however, were unaffected by the ban, and have been continuously and heavily regulated since the National Firearms Act of 1934 was passed. Subsequent laws such as the Gun Control Act of 1968 and the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 also affected the importation and civilian ownership of fully automatic firearms, the latter fully prohibiting sales of newly-manufactured machine guns to non-law enforcement.

Yes, I know that. But when speaking of the assault weapon ban, select fire or fully auto has nothing to do with it.

I already posted the legal restrictions above in all their absurdity.

 

[crt1530]

Originally posted by: Amused
Yes, I know that. But when speaking of the assault weapon ban, select fire or fully auto has nothing to do with it.

I already posted the legal restrictions above in all their absurdity.

Your edit beat my post. I was primarily trying to point out how the politicians pushing gun control don't even know the correct terminology for the evil weapons they are so intent on banning. They latched on to "assault rifle" because it was a catch phrase that made the guns seem more dangerous and illicit.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: crt1530

Originally posted by: Amused
Yes, I know that. But when speaking of the assault weapon ban, select fire or fully auto has nothing to do with it.

I already posted the legal restrictions above in all their absurdity.

Your edit beat my post. I was primarily trying to point out how the politicians pushing gun control don't even know the correct terminology for the evil weapons they are so intent on banning. They latched on to "assault rifle" because it was a catch phrase that made the guns seem more dangerous and illicit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_assault_weapons_ban

The term "assault weapon" in the context of civilian rifles has been attributed to gun-control activist Josh Sugarmann.

Yep

"Assault weapons?just like armor-piercing bullets, machine guns, and plastic firearms?are a new topic. The weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons?anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun?can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons. In addition, few people can envision a practical use for these weapons."
-Josh Sugarmann, Assault Weapons and Accessories in America, 1988


"One tenet of the National Rifle Association's faith has always been that handgun controls do little to stop criminals from obtaining handguns. For once, the NRA is right and America's leading handgun control organization is wrong. Criminals don't buy guns in gun stores. That's why they're criminals. But it isn't criminals who are killing most of the 20,000 to 22,000 people who die from handguns each year. We are."
-Josh Sugarmann, "The NRA is Right: But We Still Need to Ban Handguns," The Washington Monthly, June 1987.

It was all started KNOWING it was bullsh!t propaganda. Not to mention he's deluded with that last sentence.

 

[alkemyst]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: math20
Can someone explain to me what an assault weapon is?

I am pretty sure it is just a hunting rifle with some evil looking plastic on it.

That's about it.

The actual definition is more in lines with a shorter length, high capacity, high powered rifle more suited to melee rather than distance shooting. They are also usually fully-automatic or easily converted.

What amused said, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

I posted my thoughts on the actual definition...not what the common person thinks or even what law dictates. A rifle to hunt is not the same usually as what you want to go to battle with.

You can both get bent together and work it out though. Talk about semantics over your post-coital smoke.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: math20
Can someone explain to me what an assault weapon is?

I am pretty sure it is just a hunting rifle with some evil looking plastic on it.

That's about it.

The actual definition is more in lines with a shorter length, high capacity, high powered rifle more suited to melee rather than distance shooting. They are also usually fully-automatic or easily converted.

What amused said, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

I posted my thoughts on the actual definition...not what the common person thinks or even what law dictates. A rifle to hunt is not the same usually as what you want to go to battle with.

You can both get bent together and work it out though. Talk about semantics over your post-coital smoke.

And I posted the restrictions in the actual "Assault Weapons" ban. Which was, after all, what the discussion was about.

So you can take your homoerotic fantasies elsewhere.

 

[natto fire]

Atheus, please take your own advice on the first page and leave this thread. I am not sure why you argue so passionately about policy that does not effect you. Do you visit the United States often, or have family here?

I think it is funny that after you said "one more post" you made ten. I know everyone has to get the last word in an argument, especially if it is a pointless one (changing peoples deep-seated opinions) but seriously, take your own advice.

 

[Mucker]

time for this again: http://www.founditemclothing.com/t-shirts/guns.html

 

[Eeezee]

I'm still surprised that no one pointed out the simple fact that you can't easily conceal carry something as large as a rifle. That woman is trying to lift an assault weapons ban for completely the wrong reason. Yeah, the definition of an assault weapon is retarded in the ban, but the woman is talking about a story where a ban on conceal-carry is what killed her family. If she carried a pistol she could have stopped the ordeal, but by law she was required to leave it in the car.

Pistols like the one she owned at the time are not assault weapons, and assault weapons also have nothing to do with conceal carry laws.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: math20
Can someone explain to me what an assault weapon is?

I am pretty sure it is just a hunting rifle with some evil looking plastic on it.

That's about it.

The actual definition is more in lines with a shorter length, high capacity, high powered rifle more suited to melee rather than distance shooting. They are also usually fully-automatic or easily converted.

What amused said, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

alkemyst was dead on, other than the high-powered part...

 

[danielackerman]

three cheers for that woman. hip hip, hooray; hip hip, hooray; hip hip hooray !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


amen

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: Amused

Originally posted by: math20
Can someone explain to me what an assault weapon is?

I am pretty sure it is just a hunting rifle with some evil looking plastic on it.

That's about it.

The actual definition is more in lines with a shorter length, high capacity, high powered rifle more suited to melee rather than distance shooting. They are also usually fully-automatic or easily converted.

What amused said, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

alkemyst was dead on, other than the high-powered part...

Um, no. He wasn't. Not the by definitions laid out in the assault weapons ban.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: mugs

alkemyst was dead on, other than the high-powered part...

No, if you ever read the wording in some of those bills, it's obvious that they were written by someone who isn't familiar with firearms. What it amounts to is if the gun looks scary, it's an assault rifle. But when you familiarize yourself with firearms and then read it, you'll see that it's nonsense.

For example, in some cases, you can have the same gun, but use a different stock. Generally a wood stock make it "sporting" while a black plastic stock makes it an "assault rifle". Also, folding stocks make it an assault rifle. The way around that? Put a (easily removable) pin in the folding stock to prevent it from folding.

Another gem is that rifles with a bayonet mount are assault weapons. Don't be concerned about the guy 100 yards away with the deer hunting rifle (sniper rifle), as it has no bayonet mount, and hence, is legal. As if the big concern about guns is being stabbed by them.

People who support such bills are usually people without much mechanical knowledge and make decisions based on emotion instead of logic. If they look at a picture of a gun and think it looks evil, they think it should be banned. They most likely put no consideration into the fact that the "normal rifle" is the same thing as the "assault rifle", with the only difference being the stock and bayonet mount.