Asic Kayano vs Nike free +

[drbrock]

Hey guys need some help in the running department.

I am thinking about buying the Kayano 17 over the Nike Free + because I am an overpronator and I have an high arch. does anyone have experience in those shoes? The Kayano is expensive 95 shipped versus the free being 65 shipped. I am interested in the barefoot running but I was thinking the Free + might be a gimic shoe.

My workout schedule is basically 5 days a week with a mile and weights or just a 5k on the treadmill.

I am in the clydesdale category at 6'0 200lbs.
My current shoes are the asic gel nimbus 12. I bought those a year ago and they are def the wrong type for me as I get shin splints and some foot pain.

thanks for all the help.

 

[ZOOYUKA]

Go to a running shoe store. A proper fitting would probably do you wonders.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Completely two different shoes.

I used to run in the Asics 2xxx's as I'm an overpronator. The Kayano's are just a more overbuilt/expensive version of the 2xxx's.

I currently run in the Nike Free + and love them. However, I run on my midfoot. They provide zero support but are super flexible and light.

For walking and short-distance runs, you could probably get away with the Free +. However, if you're a heel striker, I would suggest the 2xxx's or another lighter weight stability shoe.

 

[purbeast0]

bumping this thread because i am thinking of getting the Nike Free shoes very soon.

anyone have any opinions on them? i'm starting cardio up again and will not be doign any distance running at all ... will be like mile at a time or a tad more. I will also be wearing these when I lift weights too.

 

[EvilYoda]

Also look into the New Balance Minimus that just released - 3 different models depending on your intended usage.

 

[Capt Caveman]

bumping this thread because i am thinking of getting the Nike Free shoes very soon.

anyone have any opinions on them? i'm starting cardio up again and will not be doign any distance running at all ... will be like mile at a time or a tad more. I will also be wearing these when I lift weights too.

I suggest trying out a pair of the Free at the store. Very light, very flexible and zero support.

 

[purbeast0]

I suggest trying out a pair of the Free at the store. Very light, very flexible and zero support.

i was actually going to buy them last night at sports authority because i had a coupon, but they did not have my size. i tried on a 1/2 size bigger than i liked the feel however they weren't snug enougn to purchase so I held out on them due to the sizing.

 

[Capt Caveman]

i was actually going to buy them last night at sports authority because i had a coupon, but they did not have my size. i tried on a 1/2 size bigger than i liked the feel however they weren't snug enougn to purchase so I held out on them due to the sizing.

That's where I bought mine also, the Free's are fairly inexpensive compared to it's rivals.

 

[purbeast0]

do you lift and run in them? if so how do you like them?

 

[purbeast0]

also wondering about the free run+ vs the free 5.0

was doing some research and it seems like the free run+ are between the 3.0 and 5.0 as far as flexibility and stuff are.

 

[blackdogdeek]

i like my nike free tr shoes. there is a new version called the nike free tr2. i use them for both lifting (deadlift, squat, clean, jerk, snatch, etc w/ olympic bar), running (5k on track, 400m on asphalt, short sprints on sidewalk, etc), jumping rope, box jumps during various crossfit workouts. i prefer them to my gel asics running shoes because i get more stability during lifts. i always felt like my foot muscles had to work extra hard to maintain balance especially with heavy loads. they are also lighter than my runners and i don't worry about cushioning so much because longer distances i do on the track and shorter distances don't seem to bother me most likely because there isn't enough prolonged stress to cause any damage. i haven't expereienced any issues due to their design (shin splints, foot/leg pain, etc).

 

[ibex333]

Go to a running shoe store. A proper fitting would probably do you wonders.

I tried that, and my experience was horrible. I went to what was touted to be one of the best running shoe stores in NYC and it was nothing like the reviewers described it.

Basically the saleslady just let me try on various sneakers and had me run back and fourth in front of her. I was hoping she knew what she was doing, but I seriously doubt that she did, judging from the results. I think she was just making a "smart" face and pretending like she knew something. After trying various shoes and running back and fourth, I eventually settled on a pair of running Nikes which looked like crap but felt pretty comfy. I felt like I overpaid for them. Hell I ma not even sure if they were true running shoes. I asked the lady if she was sure that these are in fact what I am looking for to get rid of the pain in my legs while running and she just nodded and said "yeah"... (Supposedly, this woman wasn't just some newbie. The website advertised her to be the wife of the store owner and a runner for many years with extensive experience!)

Well off course upon returning and giving those shoes a real test run, I realized that I was "had" like usual. Anytime I deal with something that is fancy and expensive it always ends up being overpriced junk. My legs still hurt like hell, and still I cannot run for shit.

That was the first and the last time I am ever going to those "specialized" running stores.

 

[purbeast0]

i like my nike free tr shoes. there is a new version called the nike free tr2. i use them for both lifting (deadlift, squat, clean, jerk, snatch, etc w/ olympic bar), running (5k on track, 400m on asphalt, short sprints on sidewalk, etc), jumping rope, box jumps during various crossfit workouts. i prefer them to my gel asics running shoes because i get more stability during lifts. i always felt like my foot muscles had to work extra hard to maintain balance especially with heavy loads. they are also lighter than my runners and i don't worry about cushioning so much because longer distances i do on the track and shorter distances don't seem to bother me most likely because there isn't enough prolonged stress to cause any damage. i haven't expereienced any issues due to their design (shin splints, foot/leg pain, etc).

thanks for the reply. i was looking around at the local shoe stores and none seem to carry those TR ones and the TR2 don't seem to be out yet, coming out around april or may.

i may just cave and get the free run+. i tried them on last night at sports authority and although a 1/2 size too big, i liked the feel.

 

[blackdogdeek]

thanks for the reply. i was looking around at the local shoe stores and none seem to carry those TR ones and the TR2 don't seem to be out yet, coming out around april or may.

i may just cave and get the free run+. i tried them on last night at sports authority and although a 1/2 size too big, i liked the feel.

yeah, availability for the tr was definitely an issue when bought mine last october. the only place that had them was the niketown in midtown manhattan.

 

[purbeast0]

also those of you that have the Nike Free shoes ... did you get your exact size? or did you get the 1/2 size smaller than what you normally wear?

i've read in more than 1 place they recommend to get a 1/2 size smaller than your normal shoe you wear because the snugness is what you really want in these shoes. however those of you that have them, what did you end up with size wise?

 

[RagingBITCH]

I tried that, and my experience was horrible. I went to what was touted to be one of the best running shoe stores in NYC and it was nothing like the reviewers described it.

Basically the saleslady just let me try on various sneakers and had me run back and fourth in front of her. I was hoping she knew what she was doing, but I seriously doubt that she did, judging from the results. I think she was just making a "smart" face and pretending like she knew something. After trying various shoes and running back and fourth, I eventually settled on a pair of running Nikes which looked like crap but felt pretty comfy. I felt like I overpaid for them. Hell I ma not even sure if they were true running shoes. I asked the lady if she was sure that these are in fact what I am looking for to get rid of the pain in my legs while running and she just nodded and said "yeah"... (Supposedly, this woman wasn't just some newbie. The website advertised her to be the wife of the store owner and a runner for many years with extensive experience!)

Well off course upon returning and giving those shoes a real test run, I realized that I was "had" like usual. Anytime I deal with something that is fancy and expensive it always ends up being overpriced junk. My legs still hurt like hell, and still I cannot run for shit.

That was the first and the last time I am ever going to those "specialized" running stores.

What she was doing was watching how much you pronate, and giving you a range of shoes (neutral, stability, motion control) in your category from which to choose from that felt most comfortable to you.

Overpriced? A B&M retailer with a markup - no way! You get fitted and buy a pair at the store, then buy the same pair online once you've worn those out.

In regards to hurting like hell and not running for shit - that could just be you thinking you can do a 7 minute mile like you could in junior high, starting out way too fast, thinking you have more cardiovascular stamina than you think you do, or some muscular imbalance/issue that's causing you pain. If you're willing to give running an actual shot, then there's plenty of individuals who can help you out - you're just unfairly putting the blame on her.

 

[RagingBITCH]

also those of you that have the Nike Free shoes ... did you get your exact size? or did you get the 1/2 size smaller than what you normally wear?

i've read in more than 1 place they recommend to get a 1/2 size smaller than your normal shoe you wear because the snugness is what you really want in these shoes. however those of you that have them, what did you end up with size wise?

You should get what fits your foot/feels comfy. If you like it a bit roomier, like you said, go with the 1/2 size up. (RunningWarehouse recommends that) The two pair that I had were the normal size I wear - 10. Unfortunately, with my 2E width foot, it was a bit too narrow for my foot (I muffin-topped the Free, if that makes sense) so I returned both pair that I had.

In terms of lifting with them - never lifted in them. I normally wear my Vibrams to lift now, so can't comment on that. I do like the fact that it's a more "natural" feel, vs actually being a bit off balance with a thick heel when doing squats/other standing lifts.

 

[thescreensavers]

I have Nike Lunerglide and just bought Lunarglide+ 2


How can I tell what type runner or what not by how my shoes wear?

I use it for walking/running. Basically I use it as my normal pair for everyday.

 

[SWScorch]

I tried that, and my experience was horrible. I went to what was touted to be one of the best running shoe stores in NYC and it was nothing like the reviewers described it.

Basically the saleslady just let me try on various sneakers and had me run back and fourth in front of her. I was hoping she knew what she was doing, but I seriously doubt that she did, judging from the results. I think she was just making a "smart" face and pretending like she knew something. After trying various shoes and running back and fourth, I eventually settled on a pair of running Nikes which looked like crap but felt pretty comfy. I felt like I overpaid for them. Hell I ma not even sure if they were true running shoes. I asked the lady if she was sure that these are in fact what I am looking for to get rid of the pain in my legs while running and she just nodded and said "yeah"... (Supposedly, this woman wasn't just some newbie. The website advertised her to be the wife of the store owner and a runner for many years with extensive experience!)

Well off course upon returning and giving those shoes a real test run, I realized that I was "had" like usual. Anytime I deal with something that is fancy and expensive it always ends up being overpriced junk. My legs still hurt like hell, and still I cannot run for shit.

That was the first and the last time I am ever going to those "specialized" running stores.

First of all, fitting for running shoes is not an exact science. Any reputable running store will have a generous return policy in case the shoes turn out not to be right for you. It's very hard to determine how a shoe will feel after you've logged 100 miles just by jogging a few seconds in the store. A knowledgeable sales person can help you by guiding you in the right direction, but that's still not a guarantee that the first shoe you buy is going to be the perfect one for you.

Secondly, if you have serious pain while running, good and proper shoes can help, but chances are you have underlying issues that need to be taken care of by strengthening or stretching exercises. A pair of running shoes isn't going to automatically correct all of your bio-mechanical idiosyncrasies; they're are just going to prevent them from having such an effect.

Third, you may have just had that sales person on an off day, or gone to a store that got good reviews only from people who don't really know what they are talking about. I wouldn't blow off all specialty running stores because of one bad experience. Would you refuse to ever eat at a restaurant again because you had a poor experience at one? I'd say give another store a try; if their shoes still hurt, return them and get another until you find the perfect shoe. Yes, it takes time and can be frustrating, but again, its not an exact science and often takes some trial and error, because everybody is an experiment of one, and two people with nearly identical feet and gait can opt for radically different shoes just based on subjectiveness.

Anyway, now that I've ranted on that note, allow me to add my two cents. As some have mentioned above, the Kayano and the Free are on extreme opposite sides of the running shoe spectrum. The Kayanos are heavy-duty, high-stability, high-cushion "Caddilac" shoes meant for heavier runners who overpronate (which can be determined best by going to a store that videotapes you running). The Frees are lightweight, lack any type of support at all, and are meant for short jogs every now and then to mimic the act of running barefoot. They will do nothing to prevent overpronation or provide much in the way of cushioning. Even the fastest, lightest, most efficient runners in the world don't wear Frees for everyday shoes. Some people can get away with it, but they are very rare.

Not that I am automatically pointing you towards the Kayanos. I actually believe that we humans were meant to run barefoot, and that a lot of running shoes encourage poor running form by allowing you land on your heels. If you run barefoot, you will naturally land more on the balls of your feet. This is actually better for your legs and joints. Shoes like the Kayano "disconnect" you from the ground and allow you to develop poor running habits like overstriding. I personally like to have as little shoe as I can get away with when I run, and usually opt for lightweight trainers and flats. Most people need a bit more support than me (I am extremely neutral and efficient and weigh 130 pounds at 5'10") so I wouldn't recommend that for everybody, but its something I like to tell people to keep in their minds. A lot of people that wear really high stability shoes can get away with lighter shoes with slightly less stability; others can't. My best advice is to try on a bunch of shoes that are right for you (by going to a specialty running store and having them do a gait analysis), both regular trainers and lightweight trainers, and see what feels best. Understand that running every now and then in "barefoot" shoes like the Frees can help you strengthen some muscles that can reduce overpronation, but that using shoes like those as daily trainers is not recommended as it can cause injuries. Hopefully this thesis helped you a little bit; I am going to step down off my soapbox now. It's my two cents; you can take it or leave it!

 

[OptimumSlinky]

Like everyone else is saying, they are two completely different type of shoes with completely different goals. The better question is what is your gait like? Do you land on your heel, or to you touch down with the ball of your foot? If you land on your heel, you will probably find yourself in a lot of pain with the Frees. I have several pairs, and I love them to death. I think they look slick, they're super comfortable, and I regularly wear them for both short runs and casually. But if you're going to pound on your heels repeatedly for several miles, you'll find yourself in agony. I've run in everything from Vibram FFs to Frees to NB 1225s and 993s (and I'm a "big" runner at 205-lbs), and the truth is they are all simply different.

I tend to take a lot of the talk about support and pronation with a grain of salt. I tend to prefer shoes like the Vibrams because they force the muscles in your feet to actually work and strengthen, but you must be extremely careful with your initial mileage because your body will NOT be able to adapt instantly to a completely different style of running.

 

[purbeast0]

well I got the Free Run+ and ran about a mile yesterday, and no shin splints today so i'm happy!

i did chest/triceps yesterday for my lifts so shoes didn't really come into play. wil be doing legs today so I can see if they make a big difference from my other old ass shoes.

really liking the feel and comfort of the free's though. it is cool and different how the shoe actually bends with your foot pretty much 1 to 1.

 

[Capt Caveman]

well I got the Free Run+ and ran about a mile yesterday, and no shin splints today so i'm happy!

i did chest/triceps yesterday for my lifts so shoes didn't really come into play. wil be doing legs today so I can see if they make a big difference from my other old ass shoes.

really liking the feel and comfort of the free's though. it is cool and different how the shoe actually bends with your foot pretty much 1 to 1.

Yeah, they're lightweight, flexibility and decent amount of cushion are very noticeable. In regards to your above questions, I only wear them for running. I wear other shoes for lifting, VFFs or smaller more supportive running shoes. As I mentioned in the thread in OT, due to their narrowness, I wear Free Run +'s that are 1 1/2 sizes larger than my normal shoe size.

 

[ibex333]

First of all, fitting for running shoes is not an exact science. Any reputable running store will have a generous return policy in case the shoes turn out not to be right for you. It's very hard to determine how a shoe will feel after you've logged 100 miles just by jogging a few seconds in the store. A knowledgeable sales person can help you by guiding you in the right direction, but that's still not a guarantee that the first shoe you buy is going to be the perfect one for you.

Secondly, if you have serious pain while running, good and proper shoes can help, but chances are you have underlying issues that need to be taken care of by strengthening or stretching exercises. A pair of running shoes isn't going to automatically correct all of your bio-mechanical idiosyncrasies; they're are just going to prevent them from having such an effect.

Third, you may have just had that sales person on an off day, or gone to a store that got good reviews only from people who don't really know what they are talking about. I wouldn't blow off all specialty running stores because of one bad experience. Would you refuse to ever eat at a restaurant again because you had a poor experience at one? I'd say give another store a try; if their shoes still hurt, return them and get another until you find the perfect shoe. Yes, it takes time and can be frustrating, but again, its not an exact science and often takes some trial and error, because everybody is an experiment of one, and two people with nearly identical feet and gait can opt for radically different shoes just based on subjectiveness.

The thing is, I just thought that there was a lot more to the selection process than what actually happened. Online, the running websites talk about all these things such as gait, and how someone can watch you from the side to determine how you are running and that shoe is best for you. The lady in the store literally watched me for like 30 sec, and the rest of the time she had me put on shoes and running around the block to see how they feel. She wasn't even watching me anymore. I cant see how in 30 sec she already knew what's best for me. But let's assume that I don't know what the hell I am talking about...

I did mention to her that I am in a lot of pain, and that is exactly why I came in to get some good shoes that would eliminate that. She could have at least told me what you said. That it is not necessarily because of shoes that I am having this issue.

By the way, you mention that there could be some underlying issues that are causing all this pain. How do I find out what they are? I spoke to a doctor but she saw no reason to dig deep into this. Just said that I am perfectly fine, and if running hurts, DON'T DO IT! Just walk instead as research has shown that fast walking burns as much calories when done right. That kind of an answer just doesn't do it for me.

The pain is in the arch of the foot. Where it bends. I haven't been running for a long time. I have been running on and off, very rarely, for the past two years or so. I can only run for about 3-5 min, before the pain makes me stop. Sometimes I had to stop because I was out of breath - lack of endurance/stamina, but the pain usually kicks in BEFORE I cannot run anymore due to exhaustion.

I started taking boxing lessons instead. It's an awesome workout, and I am sure I am burning as much calories, if not more as opposed to running, between the jump-rope, training on various bags, etc, but even here, I am having a serious leg problem. Now my knees are hurting like hell from all the jumping with a jump-rope. : (

When I said I am not going to one of those stores again, it's really just me feeling upset. I was "had" many times before when it comes to overpriced stuff, and I cant help but feel that it happened again. Oh and the return policy was NOT generous. she gave me TWO DAYS to return the shoes if they are not what I am looking for. And I had to work on the next two days..

Sorry, If I am getting off topic, but I felt like it was a good place to talk about his stuff since a thread already existed.

 

[RagingBITCH]

The thing is, I just thought that there was a lot more to the selection process than what actually happened. Online, the running websites talk about all these things such as gait, and how someone can watch you from the side to determine how you are running and that shoe is best for you. The lady in the store literally watched me for like 30 sec, and the rest of the time she had me put on shoes and running around the block to see how they feel. She wasn't even watching me anymore. I cant see how in 30 sec she already knew what's best for me. But let's assume that I don't know what the hell I am talking about...

I did mention to her that I am in a lot of pain, and that is exactly why I came in to get some good shoes that would eliminate that. She could have at least told me what you said. That it is not necessarily because of shoes that I am having this issue.

By the way, you mention that there could be some underlying issues that are causing all this pain. How do I find out what they are? I spoke to a doctor but she saw no reason to dig deep into this. Just said that I am perfectly fine, and if running hurts, DON'T DO IT! Just walk instead as research has shown that fast walking burns as much calories when done right. That kind of an answer just doesn't do it for me.

The pain is in the arch of the foot. Where it bends. I haven't been running for a long time. I have been running on and off, very rarely, for the past two years or so. I can only run for about 3-5 min, before the pain makes me stop. Sometimes I had to stop because I was out of breath - lack of endurance/stamina, but the pain usually kicks in BEFORE I cannot run anymore due to exhaustion.

I started taking boxing lessons instead. It's an awesome workout, and I am sure I am burning as much calories, if not more as opposed to running, between the jump-rope, training on various bags, etc, but even here, I am having a serious leg problem. Now my knees are hurting like hell from all the jumping with a jump-rope. : (

When I said I am not going to one of those stores again, it's really just me feeling upset. I was "had" many times before when it comes to overpriced stuff, and I cant help but feel that it happened again. Oh and the return policy was NOT generous. she gave me TWO DAYS to return the shoes if they are not what I am looking for. And I had to work on the next two days..

Sorry, If I am getting off topic, but I felt like it was a good place to talk about his stuff since a thread already existed.

ibex - you can get your doc to get you a referral to a physical therapist who can help you out. He or she will take a look at various factors and give you exercises to strengthen the weak spots in your body.

Based on what you said about your pain - sounds like plantar fasciitis. (If it's in the arch of your foot) Are you relatively flat footed or have an arch? (Whenever you're barefooted) For me, I had a slight bout with it in my right foot when I was training for my first marathon - mine was a case of running too long a distance too fast. Superfeet inserts helped ease my pain - kept my foot from pronating too far inward and stretching out that fascia which is what's probably causing your pain. (I'm not a PT or MD so I'm not about to pinpoint or pretend like that is the exact issue in your case though)

 

[SWScorch]

The thing is, I just thought that there was a lot more to the selection process than what actually happened. Online, the running websites talk about all these things such as gait, and how someone can watch you from the side to determine how you are running and that shoe is best for you. The lady in the store literally watched me for like 30 sec, and the rest of the time she had me put on shoes and running around the block to see how they feel. She wasn't even watching me anymore. I cant see how in 30 sec she already knew what's best for me. But let's assume that I don't know what the hell I am talking about...

I did mention to her that I am in a lot of pain, and that is exactly why I came in to get some good shoes that would eliminate that. She could have at least told me what you said. That it is not necessarily because of shoes that I am having this issue.

By the way, you mention that there could be some underlying issues that are causing all this pain. How do I find out what they are? I spoke to a doctor but she saw no reason to dig deep into this. Just said that I am perfectly fine, and if running hurts, DON'T DO IT! Just walk instead as research has shown that fast walking burns as much calories when done right. That kind of an answer just doesn't do it for me.

The pain is in the arch of the foot. Where it bends. I haven't been running for a long time. I have been running on and off, very rarely, for the past two years or so. I can only run for about 3-5 min, before the pain makes me stop. Sometimes I had to stop because I was out of breath - lack of endurance/stamina, but the pain usually kicks in BEFORE I cannot run anymore due to exhaustion.

I started taking boxing lessons instead. It's an awesome workout, and I am sure I am burning as much calories, if not more as opposed to running, between the jump-rope, training on various bags, etc, but even here, I am having a serious leg problem. Now my knees are hurting like hell from all the jumping with a jump-rope. : (

When I said I am not going to one of those stores again, it's really just me feeling upset. I was "had" many times before when it comes to overpriced stuff, and I cant help but feel that it happened again. Oh and the return policy was NOT generous. she gave me TWO DAYS to return the shoes if they are not what I am looking for. And I had to work on the next two days..

Sorry, If I am getting off topic, but I felt like it was a good place to talk about his stuff since a thread already existed.

I agree completely bud. There should be a lot more to it than just watching you for a few seconds. At my store, we videotape a person running on a treadmill in neutral shoes, as well as measure the amount that their arch collapses and obtaining a full history of activity, pain and injuries. I would honestly say that it sounds like the store you went to does not live up to a very high standard. My store allows you to return shoes for any reason after any amount of time (within reason; if you log 500 miles on them and then say they didn't work we will obviously argue that) and we spend at least 20-30 minutes with each person. If you have any Fleet Feets down where you are, check them out. The shoes do tend to be a bit higher priced because of this service, but in my opinion, if you don't know what you need, its worth it.

I also agree with RB that it sounds like plantar fasciitis. Your best bet to getting that diagnosed and taken care of is to find a reputable sports podiatrist/orthopedist who knows runners. They might recommend a store, or an orthotic, or exercises to do to strengthen your arch muscles to alleviate the pain. My Fleet Feet actually sold inserts called Superfeet which seemed to help a ton of people with plantar fasciitis. I'm not sure if they all do or not, but I'd be willing to bet they all have some sort of inserts to help with that. And I don't want you to think I'm just pimping FF; I don't work there any more, and any equivalent running store should have similar products. I'm just letting you know what you can expect at a good store.

I feel your pain; I know how frustrating it is, so whatever happens, I hope you're able to find some good shoes and are able to run pain-free. Keep us updated!