As Netanyuhu finally wakes up to the consequences.

[TastesLikeChicken]

As Ek, TlC, and various Israeli fan clubbers keep saying Israel can get away with anything by playing the military card, its maybe time to remind everyone that 200 million Arabs with oil can speak far louder than Israel if they collectively choose to legally play the disrupt the oil supply card. Especially if Israel overplays their hand. The biggie is the house of Faudin SA, because house of Faud could fall if it aids Israel.

You mean the Arabs are going to cut off their nose to spite their face?

Here's a clue for you, LL. The oil producing Arabs love their oil money far, far more than the Palestinians. Nor is it "200 million Arabs" with oil. It's more like a few thousand that truly control that oil and their only care about their fellow countrymen is to keep them pacified enough to ensure that big oil money stays rolling in so they can live large.

So in reality it's 6.5 million vs. a few thousand. The rest of the Arab population in the ME is more concerned about the oppression from their own government.

But still not the subject of the new news I post, as Netanyuhu has little freedom to repair Israeli Palestinian relations as the Netanyuhu coalition crazies force continual settlement on disputed lands.

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=264665

Making the whole clusterfuck far worse.

Boo f'n hoo. The Palestinians have made poor decisions in the past and now they are seeing the results of those poor decisions. That's what they get for listening to their Arab "brothers" whispering in their ear when they were really only being used as pawns.

 

[EagleKeeper]

As the defect in the magnus delusion lies in the fact the larger world would allow Israel to militarily attack 20 + million Arabs who boycott Israel legally and do not militarily attack Israel in any way. As Israeli shrilly demands the larger world sanctions any entity that Israel does not like, why should not the 300 million Arabs not enjoy the same freedom of action.

As Israel gets a dose of its same medicine.

Where are you getting the idea that Israel is going to go attack other Arab nations?

Please provide indicators that such is being planned.

Israel has gone after select nations in pinpoint raids when they are a direct threat to her.

She never has tried to 'attack" to destroy any Arab group. Had she wanted to; the Palestinian situation would have been long over.

as to sanctions; the world is sanction Iran for her actions, not because of Israel.
How can you state that the world is against Israel, but then will to due her bidding.

Spouting untruths from both sides of your mouth at the same time - a easy feat for a lying politician.

 

[EagleKeeper]

In another thread update, Netanyuhu will likely appeal to Abbas to return to the negotiations table without Netanyuhu offering any settlement freeze.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...s-to-return-to-the-negotiating-table-1.422444

Which is likely to go over like a lead balloon. An Israeli charade that died at Annapolis in 2008. And died again in Jordan by 2/2012.

But who knows, maybe back channel talks could work if Netanyuhu is willing to offer major back channel concessions.

Freeze was done before - Abbas never showed.

Why should Israel offer preconditions/concessions - all it does is puff up the ego of the Palestinians to think that that can stall long enough to get everything.

The Palestinians only have to offer two concessions - they will never do so.
Existence of Israel and security from attacks fro the Palestinians.

 

[silverpig]

They should all just start having babies with each other.

 

[fskimospy]

Freeze was done before - Abbas never showed.

Why should Israel offer preconditions/concessions - all it does is puff up the ego of the Palestinians to think that that can stall long enough to get everything.

The Palestinians only have to offer two concessions - they will never do so.
Existence of Israel and security from attacks fro the Palestinians.

The settlement freezes were never actually implemented. Illegal construction continued throughout them.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Stability will exist once the Arabs and Palestinians accept that there is an Israel.
At present, neither has offered Israel long term security.

These Israel threads have gotten so predictable, every time I click one now this tune starts playing in my head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCA-aHoDY7k

 

[cybrsage]

The settlement freezes were never actually implemented. Illegal construction continued throughout them.

Nope. Already approved and legal construction went on the entire time, but all new contruction stopped.

 

[Lemon law]

The settlement freezes were never actually implemented. Illegal construction continued throughout them.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eskimospy is exactly correct, Israel may have had a partial settlement freeze in the West Bank but accelerated its settlement in East Jerusalem when it claimed it had a settlement freeze. In short anyone who believes in such propaganda might as well buy the Brooklyn bridge from your choice of con men or con woman.

In related Israeli propaganda, Israel was UN approved in 1948 as a secular state and also as a Jewish Homeland in which Israel was to grant equal rights to all indigenous Arabs, Jews, and Palestinians. But now Israel wants only the the Palestinians to concede that Israel is a 100% Jewish State.

 

[EagleKeeper]

The settlement freezes were never actually implemented. Illegal construction continued throughout them.

Palestinians asked for no new construction before they would show at the table.

That is what Israel did for the time period.
The Palstinians never showed up for talks. At the end of the period; they then asked for the freeze to be extended.

Afterwards it was determined that one reason was that Abbas had no authority to discuss. But the Palestinians kept trying to manipulate words and changing the location of the goal posts after they were caught with their "pants down". "We said new but we meant any". That does not fly although their supporters may think it can.

Israel kept her word and the Palestinians did not.
Now as always the Palestinians want a do over; demand conditions/concessions and offering nothing.

 

[Orignal Earl]

Nope. Already approved and legal construction went on the entire time, but all new contruction stopped.

Before we go any further, we should establish your definition of the word *new*

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally Posted by EagleKeeper
Stability will exist once the Arabs and Palestinians accept that there is an Israel.
At present, neither has offered Israel long term security.

These Israel threads have gotten so predictable, every time I click one now this tune starts playing in my head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCA-aHoDY7k

Agreed.

LL continues to post his rose colored predictions and statements and they get shoot down by facts.

Now if he were to post links and not perform his "expert" analysis; you might get surprised.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Before we go any further, we should establish your definition of the word *new*

Mine is:
Something that was not previously approved to be built.

Palestinians:
Not another stick to be added to anything or a hole drilled or rock moved.

One goes to the planning commission with drawings for a development or a house to be put up on a plot of land.

Presently, nothing exists on that plot of land.
Once you get the yes from the commission, you can turn the dirt.
You can turn the dirt the same day or a year from now; but it has been approved. First timeline in the sand. Up until that point one is in violation if dirt is turned.

 

[EagleKeeper]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eskimospy is exactly correct, Israel may have had a partial settlement freeze in the West Bank but accelerated its settlement in East Jerusalem when it claimed it had a settlement freeze. In short anyone who believes in such propaganda might as well buy the Brooklyn bridge from your choice of con men or con woman.

In related Israeli propaganda, Israel was UN approved in 1948 as a secular state and also as a Jewish Homeland in which Israel was to grant equal rights to all indigenous Arabs, Jews, and Palestinians. But now Israel wants only the the Palestinians to concede that Israel is a 100% Jewish State.

They want the Palestinians to acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist.
What Israel does within its state boundaries is up to it.
just like Israel does not dictate to Egypt or Jordan what they should do with respect to their citizens.

The Israeli Arabs have equal rights. Your Palestinians left Israel, not wanting to become Israelis. They had their chance, forfeited up and again want a do-over.
And you have their childish supporters that feel they should be allowed a do over.

 

[JTsyo]

Do you honestly think the US, EU, Russia, and China would sit there and say "darn, we control almost the entire military of the planet, but we are powerless to get oil from the Middle East if they refuse to sell it"?

Do you really think that?

My view, the US, EU, Russia, and China all decide which of the Middle Eastern nations they will invade, so that they do not accidently shoot at each other. The invasion happens, governments are quickly toppled, the oil flow freely again.

Other than oil the Arab nations don't have much income. To shut down oil sales would be to cut their own throats.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eskimospy is exactly correct, Israel may have had a partial settlement freeze in the West Bank but accelerated its settlement in East Jerusalem when it claimed it had a settlement freeze. In short anyone who believes in such propaganda might as well buy the Brooklyn bridge from your choice of con men or con woman.

In related Israeli propaganda, Israel was UN approved in 1948 as a secular state and also as a Jewish Homeland in which Israel was to grant equal rights to all indigenous Arabs, Jews, and Palestinians. But now Israel wants only the the Palestinians to concede that Israel is a 100% Jewish State.

Ahh yes. "Propaganda." Much like your own which focuses solely on one side of the equation and blindly ignores the other.

First of all, Israel did not accelerate their settlement building in East Jerusalem. They were already in the process of building a 1600 unit apartment complex and continued to build it. There were no new settlements built otherwise.

Second of all, you omitted a few pertinent facts. Israel implemeted the settlement freeze in the West Bank and then waited, and waited, and waited for the Palestinians to come to the table. Finally, at the last minute, Abbas plops his fat ass down and demands an extension of the freeze. This is happening while a number of militant Palestinian groups are firing missiles at Israel. Netanyahu counters by asking for a concession on the part of the Palestinians, to see if they are willing to bargain in good faith. It's a simple concession - Recognize Israel as a Jewish state.

Abbas refuses. Negotiations are over.

So regardless of your half truths and simplistic statements that gloss over the facts, LL, it was the Pals that put the bullet in the potential peace agreement, once again. As was stated previously, their absolute refusal to recognize Israel will always be the major sticking point and will continue to prevent any deal from ever moving forward. Your problem is that you seem to think that any concessions should solely be on Israel. It doesn't work that way. Israel has shown their willingness in the past to make concessions and the Pals have not. Until they do the Palestinians will continue to screw over any chance at peace in that area.

 

[Lemon law]

I have no problem admitting that the USA is the most pro-Israeli country on the planet. If the USA changes its pro-Israeli attitudes, its game over for the current governance of Israel. As the EU and the rest of the world has a growing disenchantment with Israel.

But still there is a question of what Jews inside America think, as this link may shed some light.

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world...4-say-israel-is-most-important-issue-1.422405

There are more Jews in America compared to Israel so why not ask what their US Jewish perspective is.

 

[EagleKeeper]

The Jews are living in America not Israel yet with 73% agreeing with the values, what are you trying to sabotage?

Many would like there to be peace, I expect the same hrs true in most places. It is just many of the Palestinians and Muslims that have a problem with peace; they must appease their political puppet masters.

 

[cybrsage]

Before we go any further, we should establish your definition of the word *new*

When speaking of a building, it is pretty simple. New means recently built. A decade old building was built a decade ago, which is not recent.

If you bought a 10 year old building, would you say you bought a new building? You might use it in a way meaning "another" but not "recently built".

 

[JEDIYoda]

As the EU and the rest of the world has a growing disenchantment with Israel.

I see your quite blovious today....

 

[Matt1970]

Personally I don't think the Israeli Palestinian issues can be solved without binding 3'rd party arbitration, as the world has wasted 15 years waiting for Israel to deal in good faith by also fairly addressing legacy issues like the right to return.

You are boynd hope at this point.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Personally I don't think the Israeli Palestinian issues can be solved without binding 3'rd party arbitration, as the world has wasted 15 years waiting for Israel to deal in good faith by also fairly addressing legacy issues like the right to return.

Just be honest...ever since day one you have ben pushing for 3rd party binding arbitration!

Why? Because you believe that is the only way the palestinians will get everything that they want.
That is the only way and you know it as well as I do that the Palestinians will not appear to be crybabys!!

As it is until the Palestinians make some good choices ands stop being theirt own worst enemie......nothing good will happen for the poor P_)alestinains..oh...boohoo...

For 3rd party binding arbitration to take place both party would need to agree!!
That will never happen!!

Who in there right mind would be the 3rd party knowing full well that they could not guarantee Israel`s security???

 

[Lemon law]

Just be honest...ever since day one you have ben pushing for 3rd party binding arbitration!

Why? Because you believe that is the only way the palestinians will get everything that they want.
That is the only way and you know it as well as I do that the Palestinians will not appear to be crybabys!!

As it is until the Palestinians make some good choices ands stop being theirt own worst enemie......nothing good will happen for the poor P_)alestinains..oh...boohoo...

For 3rd party binding arbitration to take place both party would need to agree!!
That will never happen!!

Who in there right mind would be the 3rd party knowing full well that they could not guarantee Israel`s security???

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The flaw in the JediY argument is that a responsible third party arbiter would only be concerned with insuring a fair solution to the overall dispute by looking at the overall history of the dispute. And in Israel's case, it would be all Israeli Palestinian events since 1948.

And such an arbiter would spend no time worrying about Israeli or Palestinian security.
If Israel was been the overall rat fink, then they deserve the consequences which is not the look out of a responsible third party arbitrator.

Meanwhile the world makes a giant mistake, given the fact the all the gains in the Israeli wars of 1967&73 wars can never belong to Israel by UN doctrine, letting Israel administer those disputed territories has created a Israeli dis-incentive to ever negotiate in good faith. As Israel talks and talks and settles and settles as now they have illegal 500,000 Israeli settlers in that 44 year process. Which now demands some third party to administer the disputed territories and end the Israeli occupation of disputed territories because Israel simply can't do the job fairly.

Or we can wait the longer term when anti-Israeli terrorist finally make Israel untenable, and then we are in the french revolution of 1789, or the Russian revolution of 1917 situation, where the losing party pays the forfeit. 6.4 million Israelis against 300 million PO'd Arabs is long odds for Israel. As Netanyuhu plays exactly the wrong song by doubling down at pissing everyone in the world off at Israeli intransigence.

Sooner or later the Palestinian situation will get solved, and the one State solution becomes more likely.

 

[cubby1223]

The flaw in the JediY argument

Yea, you are the one to talk about flawed arguments...

My personal opinion is there will be peace between Israelis and Palestinians when the rest of the world gets the fuck out of their affairs. Binding 3rd party arbitration? Are you insane? You do understand you are not an all-powerful god-like creature, correct?

My personal opinion is that some interests throughout the Middle East want to maintain a "brutally oppressed" occupied Palestinian for their own selfish political gain. If Ahmadinejad had to rely on his charming good looks he'd be in serous trouble.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While I hope that Israel will, gain that long time security and becomes a productive and accepted member of the mid-east, but if we look at overall world history, EK offers another blovation myth. Because once Israel outlasts its welcome and tyranny, history offers only the lesson that sometimes the empire that overstays its welcome is treated better than it had treated those it formerly oppressed, and sometimes the spirit of revenge rules the day.

As I would prefer the lesson of Lincoln after our civil war and the lesson of Nelson Mandella and Desmo Tutu in South Africa as the better alternative. But we can also note after the French Revolution in 1789 and in the Russian revolution of 1917 the vanquished oppressor did not end up as lucky.

As Israel seems to thinks only 6.5 million Israel jews can perpetually keep pissing off 300 million Arabs and get away with it with total impunity, does not tip long term odds of a better end outcome in Israel's favor.

 

[Karl Agathon]

You are boynd hope at this point.

He's completely unhinged when it comes to any and all subjects concerning Isreal.