As much as I dislike Bush...

[Novgrod]

Universal health care is actually an example that proves my point. Where were you in 94? Dont you remember Clinton pushing it even though the polls told him the nation wasnt ready for it? Remember Republicans retaking Congress as a result of his pushing health care even though polls told him not to? Remember the subsequent SIX YEARS in which he had to fight and scrap with Congress to get his agenda through, because he lost the 94 elections by being to forward about universal health care?

What exactly was this agenda? What the hell did he do, other than have the common sense not to touch anything? How on earth do you explain polling to find out where he should vacation?

Give me a break; Clinton was the consummate politician.

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: HendrixFan
Universal health care is actually an example that proves my point. Where were you in 94? Dont you remember Clinton pushing it even though the polls told him the nation wasnt ready for it? Remember Republicans retaking Congress as a result of his pushing health care even though polls told him not to? Remember the subsequent SIX YEARS in which he had to fight and scrap with Congress to get his agenda through, because he lost the 94 elections by being to forward about universal health care?

Or were you just pulling my chain?

I thought that was Hillary pushing the health care plan. She probably cut Bill off after he couldn't get it passed and that led to Monica and the rest of the story. 😉

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: JellyBaby

Clinton always took a stand for what he firmly believed in.

Hmmm, that's not how I remember it. His thumb was in the wind searching for the latest poll numbers with the weasel Dick Morris ever whispering in his ear (surpassed by other weasels later of course).

Like NATFA? Clinton was a horrendous pres but he stood groud lots of unpopluar times when he felt it was th right thing to do. Bush is really the one with his thumb in the breeze and his head up his ass.
Again just show me one thing he's introduced which does'nt have popular opinon. There's nothing wrong with that either BTW since we are a democracy. But clinton in my book has way more internal fortitude.

 

[SoylentGreen]

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: her209
I guess this makes feeding lies and propaganda to the public right?

Such as?

Do NOT look for an explantive post. That was trolling.

 

[etech]

But clinton in my book has way more internal fortitude.

Which is why is prescidency will be known mainly for him getting a bj rather than anything he accomplished in eight years.

right.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: etech

But clinton in my book has way more internal fortitude.

Which is why is prescidency will be known mainly for him getting a bj rather than anything he accomplished in eight years.

right.

I never understood why anyone made an issue out of that... but hey.

 

[MrChicken]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Zakath15
and as much as I disagree with a war with Iraq, I have to respect a president who takes a stand and sticks with it. One thing that always bugged me about Clinton is that he would never take a definite position on any issue - he would just say whatever people wanted to hear.

Affirmative Action

Sometimes taking a stand and sticking with it is like saying "I know i'm wrong but i will never admit it" 😉

EX:
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman."

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: etech

But clinton in my book has way more internal fortitude.

Which is why is prescidency will be known mainly for him getting a bj rather than anything he accomplished in eight years.

right.

To me he's know as the only president since JFK to have a surplus and with an ugly wife.

 

[JellyBaby]

Like NATFA?

Like not taking on al qaida when the polls told him no or very little military action was more popular.

Clinton polled daily much of the time. In fact he's got the world's record for most DNC money spent on polls. All administrations poll but he actually allowed them to make his decisions and that's not leadership in my book.

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: etech

But clinton in my book has way more internal fortitude.

Which is why is prescidency will be known mainly for him getting a bj rather than anything he accomplished in eight years.

right.

I never understood why anyone made an issue out of that... but hey.

I still can't look at a cigar in the same way that I used to. 😱

 

[SlowSS]

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: etech

But clinton in my book has way more internal fortitude.

Which is why is prescidency will be known mainly for him getting a bj rather than anything he accomplished in eight years.

right.

I never understood why anyone made an issue out of that... but hey.

Maybe because he is the President of the United States.

Maybe because he is married.

Maybe because he took advantage of a young impressionable intern.

Maybe because he shook his finger at all of us on a national television and said "I did not have a sexual realtionship with that woman, Ms Lewinsky".

Maybe because he had a problem telling truth.

I don't know, maybe you are right, it shouldn't be an issue, it was just a bj.

But then, I also have some issues with GW, I guess I am not completely happy with any president.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Carbonyl

Originally posted by: JellyBaby

Clinton always took a stand for what he firmly believed in.

Hmmm, that's not how I remember it. His thumb was in the wind searching for the latest poll numbers with the weasel Dick Morris ever whispering in his ear (surpassed by other weasels later of course).

Like NATFA? Clinton was a horrendous pres but he stood groud lots of unpopluar times when he felt it was th right thing to do. Bush is really the one with his thumb in the breeze and his head up his ass.
Again just show me one thing he's introduced which does'nt have popular opinon. There's nothing wrong with that either BTW since we are a democracy. But clinton in my book has way more internal fortitude.

I get the feeling sometimes that Bush just introducing HIMSELF is unpopular based on the shrill hatred of him (sure conservatives didn't like Bill but they weren't comparing him to Hitler and saying he was going to destroy the world). Anyways, one good example is his Faith Based Initiative. Another good example is the steel tariffs (went under the radar but pretty much every article I read was against it).

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: etech

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: etech

But clinton in my book has way more internal fortitude.

Which is why is prescidency will be known mainly for him getting a bj rather than anything he accomplished in eight years.

right.

I never understood why anyone made an issue out of that... but hey.

I still can't look at a cigar in the same way that I used to. 😱

:Q


Didn't think about that...


😱

 

[DoNotDisturb]

oh please, we have another adolf here.

 

[JShaker]

Originally posted by: SnapIT

Originally posted by: Zakath15
and as much as I disagree with a war with Iraq, I have to respect a president who takes a stand and sticks with it. One thing that always bugged me about Clinton is that he would never take a definite position on any issue - he would just say whatever people wanted to hear.

Affirmative Action

Sometimes taking a stand and sticking with it is like saying "I know i'm wrong but i will never admit it" 😉

Booyakashaka.

 

[BD231]

Like anything you guys say really matters in this thread, all your doing is pissing eachother off by trying to prove points that aren't worth proving seeing as how almost everyone in this country has a blind opinion on EVERYTHING. I was walking down 4'th street with someone tonight and saw a window full of manikins holding hatefull picket signs bashing our president, WTF is up with americans these day's???? Whatever happen to sticking by our presidents???? You all sound like your ready to shoot eachother AND the president, not real patriot like. We all know the government has gotten fvcked up over the years, how about we do something to get better president choices insted of ripping eachothers heads off and letting things stay the way they are? How about we change these debates so that presidents that run for office don't bullsh*t us? You can say whatever you want about Bush, but the problem starts with the people of america being against eathother all the time.

 

[drewshin]

funny thing is he promised dual partisanship during his campaign. i guess he didnt feel so strongly about that.

as a president youve got to make some kinds of compromises. being pig headed about everything is just bad politics.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: drewshin
funny thing is he promised dual partisanship during his campaign. i guess he didnt feel so strongly about that.

as a president youve got to make some kinds of compromises. being pig headed about everything is just bad politics.

Well, he compromised on the first tax cut he passed. It was going to be a bigger cut and immediately. It was changed to a phased in plan that expired in 10 years.

He compromised on his education bill with probably the most flaming liberal with a bad background, Ted Kennedy.

That's just two examples.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Bush's position is based on coddling the radical right of the party. It is unlikely Bush is truly opposed to de facto discrimination b/c his academic and professional life is a tale of peddling influence to get what you don't deserve.

 

[PAB]

Originally posted by: BD231
Like anything you guys say really matters in this thread, all your doing is pissing eachother off by trying to prove points that aren't worth proving seeing as how almost everyone in this country has a blind opinion on EVERYTHING. I was walking down 4'th street with someone tonight and saw a window full of manikins holding hatefull picket signs bashing our president, WTF is up with americans these day's???? Whatever happen to sticking by our presidents???? You all sound like your ready to shoot eachother AND the president, not real patriot like. We all know the government has gotten fvcked up over the years, how about we do something to get better president choices insted of ripping eachothers heads off and letting things stay the way they are? How about we change these debates so that presidents that run for office don't bullsh*t us? You can say whatever you want about Bush, but the problem starts with the people of america being against eathother all the time.

And when did dissent become bad for the country? You think this is bad? Go watch Bill O'Reilly and Thomas Daschle in the same room, or something.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Bush's position is based on coddling the radical right of the party. It is unlikely Bush is truly opposed to de facto discrimination b/c his academic and professional life is a tale of peddling influence to get what you don't deserve.

Well, unfortunately, there's nothing in the Constitution or any amendments about peddling influence. There is, however, something in an amendment about no discrimination based on race.

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: LethalWolfe

Originally posted by: Zakath15
and as much as I disagree with a war with Iraq, I have to respect a president who takes a stand and sticks with it. One thing that always bugged me about Clinton is that he would never take a definite position on any issue - he would just say whatever people wanted to hear.

Affirmative Action

Wow. This country might actually be coming to its senses. :Q


Lethal

Yea that 1000 people really represents the 280-300 million in this country.

"Some black Republicans, including Secretary of State Colin L. Powell and National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, have said affirmative action enabled them to get a foot in the door, after which their own merit advanced them to the top."

Obviously not everyone agrees with Bush, who I think is a pos. He has accomplished nothing.

You don't know how polling works do you...

And why did you quote that snippet from the article? The polls didn't say 100% of Americans agreed with him.


Lethal

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: LethalWolfe

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: LethalWolfe

Originally posted by: Zakath15
and as much as I disagree with a war with Iraq, I have to respect a president who takes a stand and sticks with it. One thing that always bugged me about Clinton is that he would never take a definite position on any issue - he would just say whatever people wanted to hear.

Affirmative Action

Wow. This country might actually be coming to its senses. :Q


Lethal

Yea that 1000 people really represents the 280-300 million in this country.

"Some black Republicans, including Secretary of State Colin L. Powell and National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, have said affirmative action enabled them to get a foot in the door, after which their own merit advanced them to the top."

Obviously not everyone agrees with Bush, who I think is a pos. He has accomplished nothing.

You don't know how polling works do you...

And why did you quote that snippet from the article? The polls didn't say 100% of Americans agreed with him.


Lethal

Because here are the two most prominent blacks in the republican party, the only two actually 🙂, saying that AA opened the door for them. These same two folks are touted by the republicans as being examples of how with hard work this is what any minority can achieve. Hmmmm.....it makes you wonder. If it was all about hard work why didn't Rice or Powell say that was what opened doors for them? I was going to bring this up, but folks here are so quick to holler racist I just didn't want to say anything. But if words of support for AA is spoken by these two, then clearly the idea that AA is not needed is either flawed, a lie, or just being blind to the fact the race can still be a major hurdle.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: Zakath15
and as much as I disagree with a war with Iraq, I have to respect a president who takes a stand and sticks with it. One thing that always bugged me about Clinton is that he would never take a definite position on any issue - he would just say whatever people wanted to hear.

Affirmative Action

Even if the stand was stupid and would probably cause a lot of people to lose their lives?

 

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: LethalWolfe

Originally posted by: classy

Originally posted by: LethalWolfe

Originally posted by: Zakath15
and as much as I disagree with a war with Iraq, I have to respect a president who takes a stand and sticks with it. One thing that always bugged me about Clinton is that he would never take a definite position on any issue - he would just say whatever people wanted to hear.

Affirmative Action

Wow. This country might actually be coming to its senses. :Q


Lethal

Yea that 1000 people really represents the 280-300 million in this country.

"Some black Republicans, including Secretary of State Colin L. Powell and National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, have said affirmative action enabled them to get a foot in the door, after which their own merit advanced them to the top."

Obviously not everyone agrees with Bush, who I think is a pos. He has accomplished nothing.

You don't know how polling works do you...

And why did you quote that snippet from the article? The polls didn't say 100% of Americans agreed with him.


Lethal

I had some long, rambling rant written but I didn't think you'd want to read all that so I'm just keep it short and sweet. 😉

If you think it's okay for people to be rewarded or penalized for the color of their skin that's your prerogitive. But I think that everyone should get the same chance no matter what race they are. As for Powell and Rice, if you asked them "Is the only reason you are where you are today because of AA" what do you think they would say? I also think that things have changed in the, roughly, 25 and 50 years since Rice and Powell, respectively, "got their foot in the door."


Lethal

EDIT: forgot to delete the rant. 😉