As a Republican how do you defend voter suppression?

[irishScott]

Your link does not say what you think it does.

At any rate, you're deflecting and not answering the question I'm asking. Do you honestly and sincerely believe the GOP is doing this for any reason other than stopping poor and minorities from voting?

Funny, two of the far-lefties here tell me that my link doesn't say what I think it does, yet they decline to say how. Oddly enough, I gave this article to one of my far left friends (in many ways he's in Lenin territory) and even he agreed with my assessment and said the democrats were full of shit.

The Florida Democratic Party called on the state to "revoke" the ability of state Republicans to continue to register voters while the investigation continues. Oct. 9 is the deadline to register to vote in the Nov. 6 presidential election.

It's not even clear whether it was one company or the whole state GOP, but screw evidence, just shut down all GOP-driven voter registration and let us Democrats continue registering voters; in the most critical period of voter registration no less. They didn't call for a freeze on all registration drives, just anything led by their opponents.

You think that isn't being done for political expediency? Of course you don't, the Democrats are the honest politicians and their motivations can never be dirty or political. *snicker*


To answer your question, I agree that many Republicans are pushing this issue now in part to suppress Democrat voter turnout; but I also know two other things:

1. A decent number of Democrats would be doing exactly the same if they could, as evidenced by the article I linked.

2. It's the dumbest, least effective method of voter suppression on the planet. Or at least it should be.

Seriously, we're talking about a free, widely available ID here. I've seen poor people walk miles for a handout of some stupid something or other and read about riots over fucking air-jordans. If these prized constituents have that kind of energy for that kind of stuff, but can't spare it to vote, they must not really want to vote all that bad.

Now you could argue that in some cases the IDs aren't as widely available as they should be, but do I hear one single voice saying that? Do I hear one Democrat saying "it's a good idea, but it should be more available so none of our voters are disenfranchised"? No. It's all the typical partisan bullshit about how Republicans are evil and Democrats are the advocates of the poor and downtrodden.

The irony is that suggesting that voter ID be more available would be the perfect counterargument. It inherently agrees with the opposition, barring it from effective criticism, and largely neutralizes the supposed issue. But no, the Democrats have to rationalize their fictional moral superiority just as much as the Republicans, and that takes precedence over problem solving any day.

As is reflected in this forum.

 

[Paratus]

You support voter registration - which obviously suppresses the votes of those who are citizens but simply did not register to vote.

WHY DO YOU SUPPORT VOTER SUPPRESSION?

Did you cream you jeans or use a sock as you've been waiting to do that for weeks.

Still having trouble with reading though as my answer was already in the Frackin post.

So now answer my question. Quid pro quo.

 

[cybrsage]

Restate your question, I missed it. I stopped reading after you admitting supporting voter suppression.

 

[thraashman]

There is no defense for what the GOP is doing. It's wrong. It's unconstitutional. It's unamerican. And anyone who supports it is a worthless piece of shit.

 

[cybrsage]

There is no defense for what the GOP is doing. It's wrong. It's unconstitutional. It's unamerican. And anyone who supports it is a worthless piece of shit.

Do you support voter registration?

 

[Paratus]

Restate your question, I missed it. I stopped reading after you admitting supporting voter suppression.

Pretty typical I'd say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage
Tell me, do you support voter registration?
Of course I do. As a democrat I want as many citizens to vote as possible. And judging from the lack of in person voter fraud and reasonable identification requirements voter registration works very well.

So why change it in an election year?

If this was really about fraud the following would have been done:
Perform a study to determine if in person voter fraud was a problem
If it was, craft a potential response
Evaluate the impacts of the new law during the next election cycle
Tweak the proposal to reduce negative consequences like disenfranchisement
Implement the law for the next election allowing voters plent of time to meet the new requirements

Instead we rushed to change the laws to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

I answered your question now you answer mine:

Do you support the government spending money crafting laws to fix problems that barely exist?

 

[buckshot24]

There is no defense for what the GOP is doing. It's wrong. It's unconstitutional. It's unamerican. And anyone who supports it is a worthless piece of shit.

haha, I guess that settles it folks. /thread

 

[irishScott]

There is no defense for what the GOP is doing. It's wrong. It's unconstitutional. It's unamerican. And anyone who supports it is a worthless piece of shit.

And people like you are the reason things need to get worse before they'll get any better. It'll suck for a little while, but I look forward to a time where 75%+ of Americans vote and the radical partisans are shoved into the waste trenches on the sidelines where they belong.

 

[cybrsage]

Pretty typical I'd say.

It appeared you were trying to explain how your support for suppressing voters meant you were not supporting voter suppression by explaining that stopping people from voting meant you wanted as many people voting as possible.

You can see my confusion, and desire to stop reading, when you contracted yourself as fast as possible.

You have two questions, and I will answer them both:


"So why change it in an election year?" Every two years there is a federal election. Has to happen some time, might as well be now.

"Do you support the government spending money crafting laws to fix problems that barely exist? " Enforcing the US Constitution is worth spending money on. I support the enforcement of the US Constitution.

Why do you not want the US Constitution enforced?

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

And people like you are the reason things need to get worse before they'll get any better. It'll suck for a little while, but I look forward to a time where 75%+ of Americans vote and the radical partisans are shoved into the waste trenches on the sidelines where they belong.

You've just admitted to the fact that you KNOW the GOP is doing this because they want to suppress the Democratic vote, yet you still support them. You are a worthless, un-American, traitorous piece of shit. End of story.

There is no wiggle room with this issue. This is the most despicable thing I've seen in politics in the last 2 or 3 decades.

 

[Jhhnn]

It is obvious the GOP is trying to stop the dead and illegals from voting democrat. The GOP in PA already said that stopping the dead and illegals from voting democrat will hurt Obama's chances of winning the election. Jhhnn loves to remind everyone of this on a continual basis - which is odd. I would have thought he would want to hide such things and pretend the dems are not relying on votes from the dead and illegals.

Pure trollery.

 

[irishScott]

You've just admitted to the fact that you KNOW the GOP is doing this because they want to suppress the Democratic vote, yet you still support them. You are a worthless, un-American, traitorous piece of shit. End of story.

There is no wiggle room with this issue. This is the most despicable thing I've seen in politics in the last 2 or 3 decades.

Hahahaha! I'm voting for a Democrat senator you moron. Yeah, I'm all in for the GOP.

God this place is entertaining. Yes, I'm guilty of treason because I think free voter ID is a good idea. Hahahaha... what does one say to that? You say I'm guilty of a capital crime for supporting a view you don't like... and I'm un-American?

Voter ID should wait until after the election, but I still support the idea if not the timing, and honestly I still see it as a minor issue given the wide availability of free IDs. Perhaps it should be wider, but it's wide enough to minimize any significant problems with disenfranchisement IMO.

Democrats and Republicans are equally shitty in different ways, and sometimes in the same ways. I can guarantee that you and everyone who has ever voted has indirectly supported some shit that would make your skin crawl. Grow up, if you can. You apparently have at least 4 decades on this earth, I know the sand around your head must be pretty solid by now, but I have faith in you. Maybe.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Honestly this is perhaps the most sickening and disgusting thing I've ever seen in my lifetime in regards to politics.

I don't see any reason to believe that cheating or rigging Diebold voting machines would be below the Republicans and their supporters.

 

[irishScott]

I don't see any reason to believe that cheating or rigging Diebold voting machines would be below the Republicans and their supporters.

Nor would it be below some Democrats or their supporters.

 

[uclaLabrat]

Nor would it be below some Democrats or their supporters.

Maybe, but it does make you wonder why Romney's son bought an interest in the company that runs the voting machines, in Ohio, of all places!

http://www.opednews.com/populum/linkframe.php?linkid=157464

Edit: I haven't found any verification, so I hope it's all BS, but we'll see

 

[irishScott]

Maybe, but it does make you wonder why Romney's son bought an interest in the company that runs the voting machines, in Ohio, of all places!

http://www.opednews.com/populum/linkframe.php?linkid=157464

Edit: I haven't found any verification, so I hope it's all BS, but we'll see

Well if there's a scandal at least it won't be because dumbass voters couldn't follow arrows to dots.

 

[Socio]

Does anyone on the right honestly believe that the voter ID laws being put forth by Republican governors and state legislatures are anything but an attempt to stifle the poor and minority vote that overwhelming vote Democratic?

Does anyone truly and honestly believe that these laws randomly sprung up a few months before election day because the GOP is actually concerned about stopping voter fraud? I want to meet that person because there is literally no one dumber in this country.

See post 76 and 101, the reason voter ID laws are being put forth by Republican governors and state legislatures is obvious as well as the REAL reason the Democrats are against it.

 

[nehalem256]

There is no defense for what the GOP is doing. It's wrong. It's unconstitutional. It's unamerican. And anyone who supports it is a worthless piece of shit.

Please point to where the right to vote without proving you identity is guaranteed?

(2) Its not unamerican. There is a well established history of restricting voting

(3) I would argue anyone who cannot obtain ID is a worthless POS. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree there.

 

[Paratus]

It appeared you were trying to explain how your support for suppressing voters meant you were not supporting voter suppression by explaining that stopping people from voting meant you wanted as many people voting as possible.

You can see my confusion, and desire to stop reading, when you contracted yourself as fast as possible.

You have two questions, and I will answer them both:


"So why change it in an election year?" Every two years there is a federal election. Has to happen some time, might as well be now.

"Do you support the government spending money crafting laws to fix problems that barely exist? " Enforcing the US Constitution is worth spending money on. I support the enforcement of the US Constitution.

Why do you not want the US Constitution enforced?

Let me help you out a little. As someone who is obviously so concerned with voter suppression that you would fight against registration, you may not be aware but laws can passed in one year that take effect years down the road!

Why just think instead of requiring voter ID this year we it could have waited until 2014 giving plenty of time to mitigate disenfranchisement. So I think your whole reading comprehension think bit you again. My point wasn't only the law per se but that the timing was suspect.

As to your glee at the whole voter registration equals suppression thing, well unfortunately some people won't vote if they have to identify themselves in aura way. So reasonable people realize that a person must identify themselves to vote. The problem is not making it burdensome.

But you know all this.

 

[Paratus]

Please point to where the right to vote without proving you identity is guaranteed?

(2) Its not unamerican. There is a well established history of restricting voting

(3) I would argue anyone who cannot obtain ID is a worthless POS. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree there.

Who said anything about not identifying themselves. People identify themselves when they register and when they vote.

Do you even know what you are arguing against?

 

[nehalem256]

Who said anything about not identifying themselves. People identify themselves when they register and when they vote.

Do you even know what you are arguing against?

Please point to where the right to vote without proving you identity is guaranteed?

I highlighted the relevant portion of my statement that you appeared to "miss".

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I won't feel so suppressed this year as I'm allowed to show my voter registration card instead of a photo ID.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/politics&id=8855419

Voters carrying their voter registration cards do not have to show a photo ID.

 

[Jhhnn]

Funny, two of the far-lefties here tell me that my link doesn't say what I think it does, yet they decline to say how. Oddly enough, I gave this article to one of my far left friends (in many ways he's in Lenin territory) and even he agreed with my assessment and said the democrats were full of shit.

You miss the irony of the situation in Florida. Repubs attempted to quash registration by third parties, like the LWV, citing ACORN & their dishonest attack on that organization, then end up with their own efforts being similarly discredited. Sweet Justice.

It's not even clear whether it was one company or the whole state GOP, but screw evidence, just shut down all GOP-driven voter registration and let us Democrats continue registering voters; in the most critical period of voter registration no less. They didn't call for a freeze on all registration drives, just anything led by their opponents.

You think that isn't being done for political expediency? Of course you don't, the Democrats are the honest politicians and their motivations can never be dirty or political. *snicker*


To answer your question, I agree that many Republicans are pushing this issue now in part to suppress Democrat voter turnout; but I also know two other things:

1. A decent number of Democrats would be doing exactly the same if they could, as evidenced by the article I linked.

2. It's the dumbest, least effective method of voter suppression on the planet. Or at least it should be.

Democrats opposed the onerous restrictions on third party registrations all along. They only called out Florida Repubs to highlight Repubs' bullshit in the matter.

"They would if they could" isn't an argument, it's projection of one's own "values" onto others.

Seriously, we're talking about a free, widely available ID here. I've seen poor people walk miles for a handout of some stupid something or other and read about riots over fucking air-jordans. If these prized constituents have that kind of energy for that kind of stuff, but can't spare it to vote, they must not really want to vote all that bad.

Now you could argue that in some cases the IDs aren't as widely available as they should be, but do I hear one single voice saying that? Do I hear one Democrat saying "it's a good idea, but it should be more available so none of our voters are disenfranchised"? No. It's all the typical partisan bullshit about how Republicans are evil and Democrats are the advocates of the poor and downtrodden.

The irony is that suggesting that voter ID be more available would be the perfect counterargument. It inherently agrees with the opposition, barring it from effective criticism, and largely neutralizes the supposed issue. But no, the Democrats have to rationalize their fictional moral superiority just as much as the Republicans, and that takes precedence over problem solving any day.

As is reflected in this forum.

You're also projecting your personal situation onto others wrt obtaining picture ID, ignoring the fact that it's not so easy for other people. While the ID itself may be "free" in many places, the supporting documentation isn't. Let's try a hypothetical example, like an elderly woman who's been married & divorced twice, then widowed by a third husband. Let's say she's lived all over the country, changing her name with each marriage. She has to provide documentation for all of that, including her birth certificate, to "prove" who she is, even though she may be receiving SS checks or a state pension. It's a good thing she doesn't have to document all of that to keep getting those checks, huh?

But you seem to think it's a good thing she has to document all that to keep on voting...

When it requires zealotry to obtain the documentation to vote, then only zealots will vote, the whole point of current Repub efforts. "They must not want to vote that bad" is a bullshit argument in support of such.

Why should anybody need a counter argument to deal with a solution in search of a problem? Why concede that significant "Voter Fraud" is anything more than a conspiracy theory intended to make it harder for some people to vote? Should we say "You're right, but..." when you're not right at all?

It's nice of you to concede that all of this is a voter suppression effort, so why do you support it?

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Let's cut through the crap, shall we?

1. Republicans don't really care about voter fraud nearly so much as they do about making it difficult for Democrat-leaning demographic groups to vote.

2. Democrats don't care about dealing with voter fraud if it causes any inconvenience whatsoever to Democrat-leaning demographic groups.

3. Most reasonable people would be fine with voter ID laws if they were implemented in a way that ensured certain groups would not be disenfranchised. They do have a problem with voter ID laws that take the attitude of "do it this way or too bad".

 

[Londo_Jowo]

3. Most reasonable people would be fine with voter ID laws if they were implemented in a way that ensured certain groups would not be disenfranchised. They do have a problem with voter ID laws that take the attitude of "do it this way or too bad".

I'm in this group. Provide ID's as well as state birth certificates required to get an ID at reduced prices or even free to those who can prove they can't afford to pay for either.