arnold's recall debate is over, comments inside.

[BaliBabyDoc]

Help me understand something, HOP. You seem to believe McClintok is the best choice out of the bunch (to which I agree) based on his past/current performance. It then appears you endorse voting for Schwarzenegger b/c he's vastly inferior to McClintok but might do the right thing if the stars are aligned correctly.

 

[LunarRay]

Hero said:
Arnold lacks experience and knowledge on specifics and would be a tenth the governor McClintock would be. BUT, his philosphy and ideals are sound enough that, provided with accurate info, he'll probably make the right decisions. This is opposed to Davis who willfully and maliciously makes decisions that are BAD for California and Californians. Before the recall you never heard any Democrat use the two words "worker's" and "comp" in the same sentence. I saw on the news this morning that 51% of businesses in California have been offered incentives to move out of state and many are. MANY more will next year when their WCI rates increase anywhere from 20% - 100%.
***************

Since your focus is on WC I'd like to address that.. the fact that Swartenperson is inferior to McClintock and you'd vote for Arnold baffles me... but, that aside..

The highest rates for workers comp are in the Construction and related industry. This industry is a captive one. You really can't move the myriad of Construction companies to Arizona unless you intend to leave this market and begin operations there. The work is here! The rates for technical or 'office' work are rather low.. .80 per $100 of compensation for folks who don't work outside and in the 2% range if they do like engineers who go to the job sites to function.. the rates for say... a carpenter over 22$ per hour is about 14% and less with the mods for low claims.
The rates jumped about 25% last year but, that was health care cost related and understood. Lower heath care costs and the insurance cost goes down. Companies are already penalized for unsafe practices (high claims) and rewarded for safe practices by modifying the rate. A company with very safe practices pay about 72% of the rate and those at the other end about 125%.
So when you hear Swartz... or Cruz or whoever speak of WC do they ever say why it goes up.. How does California reduce the cost of Care that drives the WC rates? That is the Question.. I think!

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

camejo kept saying that the tax rate is lower for rich people than it is for the poor people. given that he is a financial analyst, he should know that we have a progressive tax rate here in the US. it's funny that he spouts outright lies and people dont really give a sh-t.

That is largely true for the extremely wealthy. Much of the money they make is from capital gains, stock dividends, and other sources that are not taxed as regular income. Add in all the deductions they can usually finagle for their actual earned income and they are getting a free pass from the progressive tax rate us normal folks are falling under.

 

[kaizersose]

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

camejo kept saying that the tax rate is lower for rich people than it is for the poor people. given that he is a financial analyst, he should know that we have a progressive tax rate here in the US. it's funny that he spouts outright lies and people dont really give a sh-t.

That is largely true for the extremely wealthy. Much of the money they make is from capital gains, stock dividends, and other sources that are not taxed as regular income. Add in all the deductions they can usually finagle for their actual earned income and they are getting a free pass from the progressive tax rate us normal folks are falling under.

that is such a joke, the top 5% of the wage earners in this country pay ~75% of the tax revenue. almost 1/3 of the country pays no taxes at all after rebates and some people actually get paid by the govt.

Federal + State

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

What are you talking about? Don't you know we have a God-given right to have our dividends, capital gains, and tax shelters unencumbered by the governments grubby hands! That's our money . . . hands off before you take back a nub!

almost 1/3 of the country pays no taxes at all after rebates and some people actually get paid by the govt.

Are you talking about people or corporations? Virtually everyone that works pays FICA . . . many of which will never see real benefits. On a side note, all of those marvelous surgeons and technologies that keep Viceroy Cheney alive were subsidized through direct and indirect medical education funding provided by Medicare.

If I am not mistaken . . . Enron paid no net federal taxes between 1996-2001.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Originally posted by: kaizersose

Originally posted by: Gonad the Barbarian

camejo kept saying that the tax rate is lower for rich people than it is for the poor people. given that he is a financial analyst, he should know that we have a progressive tax rate here in the US. it's funny that he spouts outright lies and people dont really give a sh-t.

That is largely true for the extremely wealthy. Much of the money they make is from capital gains, stock dividends, and other sources that are not taxed as regular income. Add in all the deductions they can usually finagle for their actual earned income and they are getting a free pass from the progressive tax rate us normal folks are falling under.

that is such a joke, the top 5% of the wage earners in this country pay ~75% of the tax revenue. almost 1/3 of the country pays no taxes at all after rebates and some people actually get paid by the govt.

Federal + State

Tax on dividends and capital gains is a fixed 15%, it's not covered under income tax. Someone making the majority of their money from those is at about the same tax rate as a single person making $7,001-$28,400 regular income. So someone making $500K+ a year may in fact be at the same rate as someone making $7K. And you're a little high on your estimate of the top 5%, everything I'm getting on google is putting it closer to 50%. I'm not saying the top 5% isn't paying their fair share (or more) as a whole, I'm just saying there is a probably a good chunk of the upper end of that group that isn't in caparison to even those probably just a couple %'s lower on the income scale because they are in effect sidestepping the progressive tax rate everyday regular people are falling under.

Personally I'd love to see a flat tax rate for everyone where ALL income is taxed at the same rate save for some reasonable bottom amount that's tax free.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Hero said:
Arnold lacks experience and knowledge on specifics and would be a tenth the governor McClintock would be. BUT, his philosphy and ideals are sound enough that, provided with accurate info, he'll probably make the right decisions. This is opposed to Davis who willfully and maliciously makes decisions that are BAD for California and Californians. Before the recall you never heard any Democrat use the two words "worker's" and "comp" in the same sentence. I saw on the news this morning that 51% of businesses in California have been offered incentives to move out of state and many are. MANY more will next year when their WCI rates increase anywhere from 20% - 100%.
***************

Since your focus is on WC I'd like to address that.. the fact that Swartenperson is inferior to McClintock and you'd vote for Arnold baffles me... but, that aside..

The highest rates for workers comp are in the Construction and related industry. This industry is a captive one. You really can't move the myriad of Construction companies to Arizona unless you intend to leave this market and begin operations there. The work is here! The rates for technical or 'office' work are rather low.. .80 per $100 of compensation for folks who don't work outside and in the 2% range if they do like engineers who go to the job sites to function.. the rates for say... a carpenter over 22$ per hour is about 14% and less with the mods for low claims.
The rates jumped about 25% last year but, that was health care cost related and understood. Lower heath care costs and the insurance cost goes down. Companies are already penalized for unsafe practices (high claims) and rewarded for safe practices by modifying the rate. A company with very safe practices pay about 72% of the rate and those at the other end about 125%.
So when you hear Swartz... or Cruz or whoever speak of WC do they ever say why it goes up.. How does California reduce the cost of Care that drives the WC rates? That is the Question.. I think!

First of all, I will be voting for McClintock if he hasn't dropped out of the race. As one of his spokesman said once, conservative Republicans are NOT falling down on their sword this time. I'm going down with the ship on this one. However, I think he'll be the one to drop out 1-2 days before the election since he has a politcal career ahead of him no matter what and Arnold's career hinges on getting experience and exposure and riding the likely fleeting momentum that's been slowly building for him the past few years. If McClintock wasn't at the debates making EVERYBODY look like a fool, Arnold would have come off much better.

As for the rest of your post:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2003/09/22/jnelson.DTL

When workers' comp is discussed in Sacramento, the debate is often cast as big corporations versus powerless injured workers and their lawyers. But big businesses are not the only ones that are suffering under the higher premiums. For example, Garamendi told the San Francisco Business Times last month that the Los Angeles Unified School District will not hire 1,000 new teachers because of the cost of increasing premiums.

These people are hardly construction workers.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/08/26/DD75921.DTL

Even where budgets are holding steady or slightly increasing -- $2.8 million at the California Shakespeare Theater; the Magic's $1.1 million -- the steep rise in expenses means cuts have had to be made. "Workers' comp alone has wreaked havoc on us," says Cal Shakespeare's Debbie Chinn. "It's up 230 percent since 2001. We're not the kind of organization that has a lot of fat to cut. We're down to muscle and sinew."

Neither are these actors.

Try to twist numbers and facts, like a typical Democrat, but this IS a problem and everybody is feeling it, contrary to what you'd like us to believe. I couldn't find the article that mentions the small shops that are having to close and how rates are likely to climb 100% next year.

You're right though. The solution can't just be to cut WCI rates...even if they had the power to do it. The entire insurance industry needs to be examined and overhauled. It's driving even the cost of medical insurance to astronomical levels in California. I pay almost $1,000 a month for my family - three of us! That's like a second freaking mortgage and I go to the doctor twice a year.

 

[XZeroII]

Anyone have the debate or know where I can see it? I was at school

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

No further rubuttal on how there's no WCI problem?

 

[SuperTool]

I hate this candidate field. I think CA GOP is pathetic. I mean all this hoopla about the recall, and no good candidates running as replacements.

 

[alrocky]

Originally posted by: XZeroII
Anyone have the debate or know where I can see it? I was at school

http://www.news10.net/news/debate-transcript-092403.htm