This reminds me of that scene in Aliens (or, Alien2) where the space marines are told not to use live ammo and are subsequently massacred by hiddeous creatures. I guess my point is that if a soldier who has experience in combat decides they want to use some alternative form of armor, then so be it. Don't try to impose politics at the front lines where it doesn't belong.
See? They're just trying to keep people from wasting their money. There's nothing else to this decision.
Dont remembering them ever telling me how to anything with a unit. But I've seen enough guys like you that think the press stories give you the equal knowledge of my near 30 years.
You guys ever give stupid hate a rest? I have heard this useless hate filled garbage since LBJ. Everyones a Battlefield General only they never showed up for the fight.
Like Bush and Cheney? Oh, and Perle, Wolfowitz, Feith, Rice, Rove, Hadley, etc.? They're the ones that have put hundreds of thousands of US troops in Iraq for a lie.
What part of what I said was to complex for you to understand? Its people like you dressing down the Army and telling us how to run it. The only President that messed with the internal ways the USArmy worked was Jimmy Carter. Non-classified orders of the President to the military are public record. I have read them, I do not see anywhere they tell us in how we should go about the job.
Once Again, do guys like you ever give stupid hate a rest. I had to hear about Bill Clinton...same useles hate filled assumptions that did no one good.
This idiocy over the vests stemmed from us not issuing them to non-combat personel...to hear some of you talk you think its a good idea to give someone a false sense of security wearing something that will not ever likely save there life when they work in a guarded facility.
Apparantly some of you also miss the point that we are in a fight to the death with this enemy....We cannot ever surrender to them...to be paraded around on arab television and then beheaded is what we are up against if we surrender...the enemy has alot better options.
ooof...we can see the Kool-Aid is thick in your blood. Go kiss your C-i-C's ass. Go right ahead. The rest of us will do what we can to end this horrendous invasion of Iraq and get our men and women home so no more have to die for a lie.
SarcasticDwarf
Diamond Member
- Jun 8, 2001
- 9,574
- 2
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So basically, you really don't care in the slightest about the armor, you are just using it as a platform for your political agenda. Kill yourself, PLEASE>
SarcasticDwarf
Diamond Member
- Jun 8, 2001
- 9,574
- 2
- 76
What agenda is that? Uncovering the lies and propaganda of the most vile of all administrations ever to be in power in the US?
They don't care about our soldiers' safety. If they did, they'd have 1) Never gone into Iraq in the first place; 2) Since they *did* go into Iraq, they could have at least sent them with armored vehicles and body armor. They did neither. And, on the back end, they're giving injured the shaft but cutting benefits.
How many Made-in-China yellow ribbons are on the back of your car?
They don't care about our soldiers' safety. If they did, they'd have 1) Never gone into Iraq in the first place; 2) Since they *did* go into Iraq, they could have at least sent them with armored vehicles and body armor. They did neither. And, on the back end, they're giving injured the shaft but cutting benefits.
How many Made-in-China yellow ribbons are on the back of your car?
SarcasticDwarf
Diamond Member
- Jun 8, 2001
- 9,574
- 2
- 76
Yet JTWill and CycloWizard both explained why the above was the case? What do you do? You don't counter the logical arguments, you tell JTWill to "Go kiss your C-i-C's ass." Right there it shows that you are the one with the agenda that does not care about the soldiers. Your have three arguments for why "they don't care". The first two no longer apply because there is adequate armor. The last may very well be true, I don't know. You are not trying to make a persuasive argument here. Since you are not doing that, it indicates that you are only here to promote an agenda.
Edit: I have zero ribbons on the back of my car. I don't need them.
I see what you're saying but you seem to be contradicting yourself. On one hand you don't like anyone who has not seen combat tell you how to lead your men, but on the other you have people in your chain of command that have not seen combat. You wouldn't have to go as far as Rumsfeld to find that out.
Me pointing out the hypocricy of JTWill's statement means I have an agenda? Good grief. It just means I'm pointing out someone's hypocricy.
*I'm* not the one criticizing civilians telling the military what to do yet JTWill had no problem with chickenhawks sending him and hundreds of thousands of others into harm's way (and sending them ill-equipped to begin with).
SarcasticDwarf
Diamond Member
- Jun 8, 2001
- 9,574
- 2
- 76
From what I know, you have never been in the military. It is not a job, it is a life. Every single person who joins know they will likely be sent in harms way. If they do not have the absolute best (and keep in mind, everything we have is better than any other country's equipment) equipment, that is accepted.
Also, at a certain point it is accepted that the upper levels of the military chain of command will be civilian. That is an accepted aspect of our country's structure. He was criticizing the average person acting like they knew what was going on.
That doesn't excuse the administration from sending troops into harm's way for a lie and sending them without the proper equipment because they completely ignored post-invasion predictions. They are playing politics with our troops' lives and using them as pawns for their global capitalistic dominance.
Put down the rifle and rah-rah poms poms for 1/2 a second and do some critical thinking for once.
Put down the rifle and rah-rah poms poms for 1/2 a second and do some critical thinking for once.
SarcasticDwarf
Diamond Member
- Jun 8, 2001
- 9,574
- 2
- 76
I have. I won't say that I believe it was the right thing to do or the right way to go about it. What I have a problem with is you making every single thing that you know nothing about into your own little crusade against the war.
SarcasticDwarf
Diamond Member
- Jun 8, 2001
- 9,574
- 2
- 76
Perhaps. The war was based on lies/misinformation. What I continually have to ponder is what impact does that have on it today. The question becomes, what is the right thing to do now? Personally, I think the best thing to do now is to stay there the minimal amount of time and get the hell out. I think pulling out immediately would be much worse, but that is just my opinion.
K1052
Elite Member
- Aug 21, 2003
- 52,767
- 46,573
- 136
It took more than six years to go from the government specs for the HMMWV (a transport that wasn't designed with extensive urban combat in mind) to first delivery. I'd hardly expect the government and the defense industry to whip out a new vehicle in a couple years specifically geared/armored for urban combat.
As far as US forces always going to war with the best, most effective equipment I give you: the Chauchat machine gun, the M4 Medium Tank (Sherman), the Mk.14 torpedo, the M16 rifle, etc....
As far as US forces always going to war with the best, most effective equipment I give you: the Chauchat machine gun, the M4 Medium Tank (Sherman), the Mk.14 torpedo, the M16 rifle, etc....
You have demonstrated a comlpete lack of understanding of what a chain of command is for. Theres a reason we dont have a single civilian commander, and a milllion privates running around. Besides micro-managing, there would be endless problems. One of which is the distance at which they can analyze a problem. Theres a reason the civilian leadership appoints more expirienced people to make decisions such as what gear is issued to front line troops. When they forget about why certain people are dedicated to such duties, and meddle with it to please the media, they end up doing more harm than help.
Thank you for your post, my background is USArmy and I am a Colonel in Special operations. I returned from Iraq a month ago do to a piece of shrapnel in the right leg. I will be returning within the month. I have 3years 3months in Combat experience going back to the end of Vietnam.
After Vietnam I became a terrorist specialist. So I have been at this for just a little while. My first tour on this one was in Afghanistan, I was sent there because of my experience from 1982 when I taught Afghan fighters Soviet Army Operations. I had very good contacts with former Mujhadeen that I fought alongside with at that time. My job was to present them with an offer to join the effort of an Afghanistan democracy. All three excepted after many long conversations.
It is this background that I feel gives me the perfect right to point out idiotic beliefs of what our purpose is in this war and what we are doing. One point I will make about another thread is the accusations of what some of our units are doing.
The press report on one Marine Corp from Rueters has in an incident 175 miles away from where they were at, my unit was on the right flank of them....I have over 1000 witnesses as to were that Marine unit was at. So the press has its ageda also and they do not sound any different than what I heard from them 35 years ago.
I might also add that these guys posting anti-war comments in this forum sound no different than what I heard 35 years ago. Its like an old song they like to sing and what they say is verbatum in alot of cases. Makes you wonder if they think for themselves, parroting others all the time. Rememberr this great opposition did not get intense until a Presidential election came up.
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