Armed Militia Members take over Federal Building in Oregon

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Victorian Gray

Lifer
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
Maybe folks are placing the responsibility for the verdict in the wrong place.

What one of the jurors has said about the matter:

"One of the jurors who acquitted Ammon and Ryan Bundy emailed a Portland, Oregon, newspaper to say the prosecution failed to prove the fundamental elements of a conspiracy charge.

In his message to The Oregonian/OregonLive (http://bit.ly/2fnsow6), Juror No. 4 said the panel spoke with U.S. District Judge Anna Brown after the verdict and asked why the federal government chose the conspiracy charge when prosecuting those who spent weeks occupying a bird sanctuary in southeast Oregon.
The juror said he learned a possible alternate charge, criminal trespass, wouldn't have brought as serious a potential penalty.

The juror wrote he is baffled by the negative response from observers shocked by the acquittals, saying "don't they know that 'not guilty' does not mean innocent."

He says the jurors were aware their verdict might inspire future lawbreaking, but they had to focus on the charge before them."

http://www.khq.com/story/33507921/the-latest-bundy-juror-not-guilty-does-not-mean-innocent

Link to the longer article in the Oregonian:

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/10/juror_4_prosecutors_in_oregon.html
 
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Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,421
10,723
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dainthomas said:
I can't believe anyone wouldn't agree that black and/or muslim people would all be in prison or dead if they did the same thing.
Click to expand...

Not if they had a jury of their peers, and their shared culture included the same anti-government sentiment.
No, Yeehawdists are not the peers of inner city blacks, or Muslims. They would throw the book at those people, but their peers would not.
The same as you are not a Yeehawdist and would throw the book at them, unlike the jury in this case.
 
kage69

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,730
48,547
136
Grade A horseshit. A black dude can get choked to death for selling loosies but these assholes are going to walk after an armed occupation of a Federal building? Just, wtf. Absolutely ridiculous.
 
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Sunburn74

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,076
2,635
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I don't understand what happened here. How did these guys not go to jail on the conspiracy charge or the gun charge? The had guns!
 
KMFJD

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
33,797
54,399
136
This is what happens when non white people protest in North Dakota

eb243fe78de2a1df6d62340d0c22a9c1.jpg

e88d1a9c48ceee69ce25addfc69948f6.jpg


Album

http://imgur.com/a/ELFka
 
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A

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
Jaskalas said:
Not if they had a jury of their peers, and their shared culture included the same anti-government sentiment.
No, Yeehawdists are not the peers of inner city blacks, or Muslims. They would throw the book at those people, but their peers would not.
The same as you are not a Yeehawdist and would throw the book at them, unlike the jury in this case.
Click to expand...

In actual practice these yeehawdists seem to getting protection from their peers in a way that inner city black people who do end up in prison don't.

Everyone else is just trying to point out that justice in this country generally speaking does have to do with race & class.
 
ivwshane

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,741
17,395
136
Jaskalas said:
Not if they had a jury of their peers, and their shared culture included the same anti-government sentiment.
No, Yeehawdists are not the peers of inner city blacks, or Muslims. They would throw the book at those people, but their peers would not.
The same as you are not a Yeehawdist and would throw the book at them, unlike the jury in this case.
Click to expand...

Jury of their peers doesn't mean what you think it means. It's already been explained to you once so I'm baffled why you continue to say it.
 
Bitek

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,239
136
PokerGuy said:
BLM has very little to do with "counter-government" and everything to do with anti-white. The group makes that abundantly clear.

Of course you don't, most people who love big government to better control those they disagree with can't understand why anyone would be opposed to such control.

Except they were not found guilty of committing "multiple felonies" in this case.
Click to expand...


The police ARE the govt.
It is precisely about govt control and overreach.

Far more than about grazing rights and cattle. It's literally about govt abuse of power.

The fact you can't see that is astonishing.

By your logic, the Bundy's are anti-black/et al. then and it's a white supremacy movement.
 
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Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,421
10,723
136
ivwshane said:
Jury of their peers doesn't mean what you think it means. It's already been explained to you once so I'm baffled why you continue to say it.
Click to expand...

You are baffled because you think something is relevant when it is not.
I do not care about a legal definition. It has no relevance to the practical result of people who are similar to Bundy (peers) letting them go.

People are decrying that acquittal as white privilege, aka racism, and I'm pushing back trying to explain what culture is. I find that anti-government culture is the cornerstone of this result. People of all colors, all races, can share the same culture. I stand by my statement that anyone could be acquitted "by their peers" and I'll try to explain it as clearly as I can once more.

I am not surprised that yeehawdists acquitted fellow yeehawdists of crimes done while yeehawding.
Just as I would not be surprised if #BLM acquitted fellow #BLM of crimes done while protesting.​

Sorry if the inner cities don't believe in Jury nullification as much as rural ranchers do. Maybe you should get on that and teach them. I suspect 90%+ of cases are closed with protestors being railroaded by guilty pleas. Moreover, cities might be more diverse than rural Oregon, so maybe acquittal is less likely than hung Jury. Still, as you can see here guilty verdicts don't have to be a guarantee if the people stand for one another. And what I'm saying is people most likely to stand by their peers, which by rights should be cultural, not racial.
 
Bitek

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,239
136
That's like saying it was OK the jury let OJ go (assuming you believe he was guilty.)

"Jury nullification" by his peers.

We have the rule of law or we don't. Protesters who riot and burn down businesses should not get a pass. Neither should militia men pointing guns at people.

This is sending absolutely the wrong message.
 
A

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,243
86
Jaskalas said:
You are baffled because you think something is relevant when it is not.
I do not care about a legal definition. It has no relevance to the practical result of people who are similar to Bundy (peers) letting them go.

People are decrying that acquittal as white privilege, aka racism, and I'm pushing back trying to explain what culture is. I find that anti-government culture is the cornerstone of this result. People of all colors, all races, can share the same culture. I stand by my statement that anyone could be acquitted "by their peers" and I'll try to explain it as clearly as I can once more.

I am not surprised that yeehawdists acquitted fellow yeehawdists of crimes done while yeehawding.
Just as I would not be surprised if #BLM acquitted fellow #BLM of crimes done while protesting.​

Sorry if the inner cities don't believe in Jury nullification as much as rural ranchers do. Maybe you should get on that and teach them. I suspect 90%+ of cases are closed with protestors being railroaded by guilty pleas. Moreover, cities might be more diverse than rural Oregon, so maybe acquittal is less likely than hung Jury. Still, as you can see here guilty verdicts don't have to be a guarantee if the people stand for one another. And what I'm saying is people most likely to stand by their peers, which by rights should be cultural, not racial.
Click to expand...

If it's the case that their neighbors won't convict them of any accusations by the gubmint, then the solution is pretty obvious. Unfortunately it still doesn't matter much in this country if some whiteys don't get what's coming to them.
 
Bitek

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,239
136
Boy, makes tarp man look even more of a dumbass.

Thought he'd avoid prison by going down fighting.

Turns out all he needed to do was come out with Cheeto fingers in the air.

Oops..

y3z3i.jpg
 
Commodus

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,821
136
Of course, the real reason they're getting pardons is because the Obama administration succeeded in appealing the initial sentencing. It's literally just a matter of petty revenge on Trump's part.
 
J

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
Commodus said:
Of course, the real reason they're getting pardons is because the Obama administration succeeded in appealing the initial sentencing. It's literally just a matter of petty revenge on Trump's part.
Click to expand...

It's grandstanding for the base.
 
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