Armed Militia Members take over Federal Building in Oregon

[Jhhnn]

Modify a tomahawk missile to drop bags of doritos instead of cluster munitions, give the footage to the media...

 

[IronWing]

I think the Feds are playing it smart here and Bundy is very stupid.
Oregon doesn't want this out-of-state "militia" here, and plenty of time has been given to make Bundy aware of that fact. The sheriff and the residents of Harney county have asked them to leave, and yet they've brought in more people.
And now, law enforcement will wait while Bundy has dozens of armed men sitting around in the cold doing nothing. And sooner or later, one of them is going to do something stupid enough to justify any action that law enforcement chooses to take. The end.

The problem with this approach is that the stupid thing one of the welfare cowboys might decide to do could get somebody else killed. Then it looks a whole lot like the authorities sat around with their thumbs up their butts and let it happen.

 

[DrDoug]

It looks like the invasion is still ongoing in Harney County.

When Oregon Rep. Dallas Heard, a Republican from Roseburg, led a convoy of out-of-state elected officials to Burns to meet with the militant protesters on Saturday evening, it was just the latest example of the flood of outsiders who have come here uninvited, ostensibly in an effort to help.

Leave it to a Republican state representative who doesn't represent the people of Harney County to think it's a great idea to bring even more outsiders to Harney County. What a fucking moron. I also saw another article that states that some of the militia guys who arrived yesterday have remained behind in Burns and are out patrolling the streets in their vehicles "to keep the peace". I wonder how the locals like the piece, I mean peace that they brought with them.

Even New Hampshire gets to be represented!

Jerry DeLemus, 61, of Rochester, New Hampshire, arrived in Oregon last week to also help convince Bundy – son of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy – and his band to give up the occupation. He is well acquainted with the Bundys, having assumed the role of commander of the private militia involved in the Nevada ranch standoff in 2014.

I guess it's our state but it's their rules for now.

 

[Jaskalas]

No local support.
No Democratic authority.
Nothing but criminals waiting to do time.

 

[Zorba]

I think the Feds are playing it smart here and Bundy is very stupid.
Oregon doesn't want this out-of-state "militia" here, and plenty of time has been given to make Bundy aware of that fact. The sheriff and the residents of Harney county have asked them to leave, and yet they've brought in more people.
And now, law enforcement will wait while Bundy has dozens of armed men sitting around in the cold doing nothing. And sooner or later, one of them is going to do something stupid enough to justify any action that law enforcement chooses to take. The end.

If they were on private property, just being annoying fine. But they have already done far more than enough to justify action. If they weren't white with guns they would be in jail. Ignoring them is going to do nothing but encourage the next set of wackos.

What's crazy is everyone I work with from talk radio listening, own a different gun for every week of the year guys to so liberal they're red guys all want the feds to go drag their asses out. But like everything thing else in this country, the more the public agrees on something, the less likely the feds will act on it.

 

[DrDoug]

Regarding the Republican legislator from Roseburg I mentioned above, here's the title from the article about him:

Oregon standoff: Roseburg state legislator ignores local warnings, visits protestors

Who were the out of state legislators who joined Rep. Heard for the uninvited visit to eastern Oregon?

The out-of-state legislators were Reps. Graham Hunt and Matt Shea of Washington; Reps. Judy Boyle, Heather Scott and Sage Dixon of Idaho; and Rep. Michelle Fiore of Nevada, who joined by telephone.

I'm going to bet that there are a few conservatives in that list of names but I won't waste my time checking. What were they doing?

Heard and five other elected officials from Washington, Idaho and Nevada were on a "fact-finding mission," Heard said.

A fact finding mission? WTF are they going to do if they find some facts? Facts and Republicans are like oil and water, the two just don't get along together.

Not only a fact finding mission but:

"I was concerned that some of my constituents might have been mixed up in this," Heard said. "A good shepherd's job is to take care of all his flock."

He was concerned about the health and welfare of some of his constituents who might have wandered over there. Judging from the next line I take it the Republican representatives want the militia boys to know they came through for them despite attempted government interference!

The outside elected officials told the militants that Harney County and FBI officials had put "great pressure" on them not to visit the refuge, Finicum said.

And how does the local judge view this?

"I find it really interesting that not only did law enforcement advise him not to go out there, [but] it seems to me that we now have a state representative who will not listen to local input," Grasty said. "And isn't that the same thing that our armed visitors are saying about the federal government? It's the same thing."

How about what the actual elected representative for Harney County thinks?

"He had called me and indicated he was heading that direction, and I indicated that was inappropriate," said Bentz, whose district includes Harney County. "I think it's fair to say I was not enthusiastic about the idea."

That's the Republican party of today folks; the right hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

ETA: I guess they now have a Colonial-era Bundiot patrolling the wildlife refuge...

I think this is part of their plea for supplies. Remember Valley Forge! Send gaming supplies!! :biggrin:

 

[trenchfoot]

The way I figure it, the longer these guys hold out the more stupid they look. They already look like a bunch of broke dick nobody's looking for their five minutes of fame.

Best to just ignore them for the useless rabble rousers that they are. As soon as they realize they're being marginalized and looked upon as a loose bunch of hosers demanding attention that they're never going to get, they're going to simply drift off and go find another cause to rally 'round and try to make a spectacle of themselves......again.

 

[DrDoug]

The way I figure it, the longer these guys hold out the more stupid they look. They already look like a bunch of broke dick nobody's looking for their five minutes of fame.

Best to just ignore them for the useless rabble rousers that they are. As soon as they realize they're being marginalized and looked upon as a loose bunch of hosers demanding attention that they're never going to get, they're going to simply drift off and go find another cause to rally 'round and try to make a spectacle of themselves......again.

They might go and make themselves a spectacle again but the next time the spectacle could be more 'spectacular' than this dud they rolled out. That's why they shouldn't be ignored but rather pointed at and ridiculed for being the stupid selfish fucks they are while doing this and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law afterwards. Let them walk away again at your own risk. Poppa Bundy's ranch wasn't enough, now they want to expand their 'movement'. If they are allowed to just walk away then they'll be back with another dumb plan as soon as they cook it up. This current 'plan' of theirs (such as it was) is the Bundy Militia II: Welfare Cowboy Bugaloo.

Next time they might do more than inconvenience a bunch of people. Or the next time...

 

[Jaepheth]

Politicians read the situation; decided they probably won't be shot or taken hostage due to the R they had surgically added to their names, and figured it'd be good publicity to be seen as brave and great publicity if the protesters fold shortly after their visit and they can claim partial or full responsibility.

Basically the same reason reporters stand outside in hurricane force winds.

 

[zinfamous]

Who is going to buy their lottery tickets?

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

The way I figure it, the longer these guys hold out the more stupid they look. They already look like a bunch of broke dick nobody's looking for their five minutes of fame.

Best to just ignore them for the useless rabble rousers that they are. As soon as they realize they're being marginalized and looked upon as a loose bunch of hosers demanding attention that they're never going to get, they're going to simply drift off and go find another cause to rally 'round and try to make a spectacle of themselves......again.

They're getting media coverage, donations, support, and now visits from elected reps. What you see them as and what they see themselves as are two different things, and it's why continuing to let themselves look stupid is not going to resolve the situation.

 

[Jaepheth]

The biggest problem with the whole thing is that from the government's point of view there's not really a winning move here. Even hearing these people out sends the message that if you have a grievance all you have to do is hold something hostage with guns and people will at least listen to you over the din of internet and pop culture noise. Negotiating is worse. Killing them is bad, and attempting to simply arrest them may very likely escalate to killing them. If you do nothing you risk being seen as weak and ineffective, but in the meantime the media is giving these people a mouthpiece.

I think doing nothing while asking them to leave so long as they're not endangering anyone but themselves is one of the lesser evils available. IMO fining them for everyday they stay would be better. But then this shows how unequally the law treats people of different castes (race/class/etc) in a time when that problem is already being highlighted.


So yeah, no elegant solutions for the government so far as I can see, but I think they're close to doing the best they can in regards to rule of law/sanctity of life.


From the protester's point of view I think they've already won about as much as they're going to. They got national attention looking at the BLM (I think they're on the wrong side, the BLM seems like it was just doing its job, but that's beside the point) They overreached on their demands and so now can't leave without looking like failures. They've managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory before the game ever really got started. (I'm assuming that they're misguided but not actually suicidal; which is probably a mistake on my part.)

So basically we now have a stalemate that'll end only when one side gets tired of waving their dicks at the other side... and there are a lot of dicks involved; oh, and one side has already won this sort of game against the Soviets (or at least got them to take a couple decades' long breather).

 

[Vic]

They're getting media coverage, donations, support, and now visits from elected reps. What you see them as and what they see themselves as are two different things, and it's why continuing to let themselves look stupid is not going to resolve the situation.

I have to agree with this unfortunately. The entitlement mentality of the Bundys is simply breathtaking. I'm in favor of the divestiture of a good portion of the public lands, but at auction and at fair market value. The Bundys OTOH just expect the government to hand them a deed, and they've got more than a few of the ranchers and farmers interested in this "free stuff."

Edit: an additional note, one of the reasons why these elected officials are involved is because the federal lands don't pay state and local property taxes, which is a big issue for some counties. However, I think these officials are naive to believe that people like the Bundys will pay their property taxes when they've already shown that the Feds couldn't foreclose on them.

 

[MongGrel]

I have this weird feeling that the second group of militia is actual .gov in disguise.

Nah, the Feds do not need disguises.

 

[jackstar7]

I wonder which old boyfriends their wives are banging.

 

[dank69]

Who is going to buy their lottery tickets?

They selected "pay me in lottery tickets" on the Federal Disability website.

 

[IronWing]

Edit: an additional note, one of the reasons why these elected officials are involved is because the federal lands don't pay state and local property taxes, which is a big issue for some counties. However, I think these officials are naive to believe that people like the Bundys will pay their property taxes when they've already shown that the Feds couldn't foreclose on them.

The federal government makes grants to counties called "payments in lieu of taxes" to compensate counties for a lack of property tax revenue on federal lands.

In many western states, ranchers pay the cowboy welfare property tax rate on private range lands which is far lower than what everybody else pays for property of comparable market value. In Arizona, ranchers pay a rate about 2% of that charged normal, productive homeowners.

 

[Subyman]

The biggest problem with the whole thing is that from the government's point of view there's not really a winning move here. Even hearing these people out sends the message that if you have a grievance all you have to do is hold something hostage with guns and people will at least listen to you over the din of internet and pop culture noise. Negotiating is worse. Killing them is bad, and attempting to simply arrest them may very likely escalate to killing them. If you do nothing you risk being seen as weak and ineffective, but in the meantime the media is giving these people a mouthpiece.

I think doing nothing while asking them to leave so long as they're not endangering anyone but themselves is one of the lesser evils available. IMO fining them for everyday they stay would be better. But then this shows how unequally the law treats people of different castes (race/class/etc) in a time when that problem is already being highlighted.


So yeah, no elegant solutions for the government so far as I can see, but I think they're close to doing the best they can in regards to rule of law/sanctity of life.


From the protester's point of view I think they've already won about as much as they're going to. They got national attention looking at the BLM (I think they're on the wrong side, the BLM seems like it was just doing its job, but that's beside the point) They overreached on their demands and so now can't leave without looking like failures. They've managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory before the game ever really got started. (I'm assuming that they're misguided but not actually suicidal; which is probably a mistake on my part.)

So basically we now have a stalemate that'll end only when one side gets tired of waving their dicks at the other side... and there are a lot of dicks involved; oh, and one side has already won this sort of game against the Soviets (or at least got them to take a couple decades' long breather).

I agree there aren't any optimal solutions here. These guys better see hard prison time. No way can they walk away from this free men like they want. IMO, they need to be totally cut off from the media, not allowed to leave, and no supplies brought to them.

 

[chucky2]

I keep checking this thread every day waiting to hear that these guys finally packed it in and went home, and each day, it shocks me they're still there. I guess some of them will at least lose some weight they've been needing to lose...

 

[michal1980]

Modify a tomahawk missile to drop bags of doritos instead of cluster munitions, give the footage to the media...

ha.

 

[bshole]

The way I figure it, the longer these guys hold out the more stupid they look. They already look like a bunch of broke dick nobody's looking for their five minutes of fame.

Best to just ignore them for the useless rabble rousers that they are. As soon as they realize they're being marginalized and looked upon as a loose bunch of hosers demanding attention that they're never going to get, they're going to simply drift off and go find another cause to rally 'round and try to make a spectacle of themselves......again.

Attention they're never going to get? These guys are all over the news. They have more fame already than the overwhelming majority of Americans. They are jacking off every night to images of themselves plastered on every major new site in the world.

Shit I am considering of grabbing my bow and kidnapping a Rest Area. I wanna cut me a slice of that fame pie. Anybody else want a slice? LoL...

 

[soundforbjt]

I'll stop their fame when I win the lottery Tuesday and become the latest billionaire P&N poster.

 

[Subyman]

Shit I am considering of grabbing my bow and kidnapping a Rest Area. I wanna cut me a slice of that fame pie. Anybody else want a slice? LoL...

Nah I'm good yelling into the internet void and then going about my day.

 

[Darwin333]

Modify a tomahawk missile to drop bags of doritos instead of cluster munitions, give the footage to the media...

Would be so much more fun to dangle it from the bottom of a quadcopter and every time they go to grab it yank it out of their grasps.

 

[cbrunny]

Do those guys have scurvy yet?