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[Victorian Gray]

God destroyed the earth to get rid of wickedness. What a clever clever God he was. It almost worked too! I am curious to know if he was surprised to discover that this plan didn't work. Kind of weird to find out that an all-knowing God did not know apriori that a global flood wouldn't end wickedness. Also weird to know that an all-powerful God did his level best to end wickedness and failed. We have the Barney Fife of Gods I think.

What I really really love is that the civilization of Egypt existed before the flood, during the flood and after the flood. We have precise dating on this. Either God protected Egypt during the flood to such an extent as they did not even know it occurred or God when in after and faked a thousand or so years of Egyptian archaeology.

God is actually Coyote? That might actually explain a few things.

 

[Paratus]

This isn't the account I was talking about. The flood account should be read completely instead of making assumptions. The bible doesn't say all the water came from rain fall. I was hoping you'd just read it and discover it for yourself since that is always more meaningful to the learner.

So I've recalculated the volume of water. The bible says the flood covered the mountains plus some number of cubits. Since you refuse to link which biblical flood example you are referring to I took a look online. Most young Earth creationists say that the Earth was different before the flood so I will take the conservative path and estimate the pre-flood mountains at a whopping 200ft.

Doing the calculations like Subyman suggested gives us an answer around 1-2x10^9 km^3 of water.


This works out be only 320 in/hr of rain.

Across the roof of the ark it would be: 150,000GPM. That's equivalent to to the output of 8 space shuttle main engines for comparison.

Now the bible saying some of the water came from below means that some of the 320 in/hr came through the ground or elsewhere.

The highest recorded hourly rain rate was 13 in/hr. The highest recorded rain rate per minute was about 1in/min or 60 in/hr.

So let's assume our biblical rainstorm is twice as bad as the worst rain rate recorded: 120in/hr. That leaves about 200 in/hr to come from the ground. That amount of flow everywhere would have dislodged the ground everywhere. Or created huge geysers everywhere.

The biblical story of a world wide flood is scientifically impossible. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. So why are the creation "scientists" trying to support this story with made up science. You either know it's an allegory of you have faith God made it happen. If you have faith there's no reason to try and use science to fake support.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

So I've recalculated the volume of water. The bible says the flood covered the mountains plus some number of cubits. Since you refuse to link which biblical flood example you are referring to I took a look online. Most young Earth creationists say that the Earth was different before the flood so I will take the conservative path and estimate the pre-flood mountains at a whopping 200ft.

Doing the calculations like Subyman suggested gives us an answer around 1-2x10^9 km^3 of water.


This works out be only 320 in/hr of rain.

Across the roof of the ark it would be: 150,000GPM. That's equivalent to to the output of 8 space shuttle main engines for comparison.

Now the bible saying some of the water came from below means that some of the 320 in/hr came through the ground or elsewhere.

The highest recorded hourly rain rate was 13 in/hr. The highest recorded rain rate per minute was about 1in/min or 60 in/hr.

So let's assume our biblical rainstorm is twice as bad as the worst rain rate recorded: 120in/hr. That leaves about 200 in/hr to come from the ground. That amount of flow everywhere would have dislodged the ground everywhere. Or created huge geysers everywhere.

The biblical story of a world wide flood is scientifically impossible. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. So why are the creation "scientists" trying to support this story with made up science. You either know it's an allegory of you have faith God made it happen. If you have faith there's no reason to try and use science to fake support.

I'm in awe of the number of assumptions you've made in the name of "science."

 

[Subyman]

FWIW, I was doing a bit more thinking on the topic, but if the rainfall is uniform over the entire earth then all you really need is the "flood height" and amount of time to get the rain rate. This would disregard the volume of land above sea level (its likely sufficiently small for our comparisons here.) The reason is "rain fall" is only a height measurement and if the containment area is the entire surface of the Earth and the rainfall is consistent across the surface then the rain fall rate needed would only be:

Rain Fall Rate = Flood Height / Time

So 200ft/40 Days = 5ft per day or 2.5in per hour

This assumes absolutely no absorption from soil, which we could get into relatively easily but the amount not counted by the volume of land probably displaces the amount lost by absorption.

Anything wrong with these assumptions of using rain fall directly? I'm not too familiar on how they measure rainfall, so I made assumptions.

 

[sandorski]

I'm in awe of the number of assumptions you've made in the name of "science."

When you're trying to Science a Fairytale, Facts are hard to come by.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

When you're trying to Science a Fairytale, Facts are hard to come by.

Fairy tales are perfectly fine when you call them science apparently.

 

[sandorski]

Fairy tales are perfectly fine when you call them science apparently.

How can you tell them apart?

 

[Paratus]

I'm in awe of the number of assumptions you've made in the name of "science."

Fairy tales are perfectly fine when you call them science apparently.

It's called bounding the problem. I did a rough lower bound calculation to see if it was feasible to happen naturally. A flood as described in the bible isn't scientifically feasible by natural means.

Why this is shocking to someone who has faith in the biblical flood story I don't know.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

It's called bounding the problem. I did a rough lower bound calculation to see if it was feasible to happen naturally. A flood as described in the bible isn't scientifically feasible by natural means.

Why this is shocking to someone who has faith in the biblical flood story I don't know.

Defining terms in the Bible to suit your preconceived notion of science seems awefully close to what you decry literal believers in the Bible for.

 

[sandorski]

Defining terms in the Bible to suit your preconceived notion of science seems awefully close to what you decry literal believers in the Bible for.

In what way does this make sense? Did the alleged events in the Bible occur in an alternate Universe where our Scientific knowledge does not apply?

 

[Paratus]

Defining terms in the Bible to suit your preconceived notion of science seems awefully close to what you decry literal believers in the Bible for.

I literally used sixth grade math to calculate the volume of shell 200ft high and divided by the number of seconds in 40 days.

You are going to have to be more specific if you want me to understand what your problem is with what I did.

 

[bshole]

I'm in awe of the number of assumptions you've made in the name of "science."

The biggest being that the highest mountain was 200 ft. That assumption is patently ridiculous. What kind of special moron believes that Mt Everest has risen in 5 miles in a few thousand years.

The same kind of moron that believes that the billion or so species that have ever existed all came from the inhabitants of the ark. That kind of a evolution has never been witnessed. It is macro-evolution on steroids.

The same kind of moron that believes that trees and plant life can spread across the entire planet in a few thousand years but leave no evidence of their travel and then only grow in the area they traveled to.

The same kind of moron that believes that a desolate planet devoid of all life would provide prey food for all the hungry carnivores and plant food for the herbivores when they disembarked from the ark. Jesus each feeding of the lions and t-rex when they got off the ark would be a FUCKING extinction event.

The same kind of moron who believes that Noah was able to conserve the lives of the thousands of parasitic organisms without a problem. Who had polio, who had AIDs, who had tapeworm, who had Polio, who carried the flu virus, who carried malaria, who carried yellow fever, etc...... God did a damn swell job of collecting and perserving these nasty fuckers. I would love to know how Noah counted each of the parasites. I would also love to know how he was able to get them in pairs as they were asexual and live in colonies. Most of them cannot even exist outside of a host organism.


http://www.biblicalnonsense.com/chapter6.html

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

In what way does this make sense? Did the alleged events in the Bible occur in an alternate Universe where our Scientific knowledge does not apply?

In a way, the most obvious incorrect assumption being made is the world being defined by our resident pseudo scientists as the planet. The men who wrote the Bible are believed to be devinely inspired however, being human, they must needs frame the knowledge within their own experience. If every seat of civilization they were aware of was inundated with flood waters than that is indeed the world.

 

[sandorski]

In a way, the most obvious incorrect assumption being made is the world being defined by our resident pseudo scientists as the planet. The men who wrote the Bible are believed to be devinely inspired however, being human, they must needs frame the knowledge within their own experience. If every seat of civilization they were aware of was inundated with flood waters than that is indeed the world.

So you are claiming a Localized flood. Ok, how about explaining that to those claiming a Global Flood?

 

[bshole]

In a way, the most obvious incorrect assumption being made is the world being defined by our resident pseudo scientists as the planet. The men who wrote the Bible are believed to be devinely inspired however, being human, they must needs frame the knowledge within their own experience. If every seat of civilization they were aware of was inundated with flood waters than that is indeed the world.

Gods express purpose was stated to kill off mankind and put an end to wickedness. Kind of hard to do that with a local flood. In any event he FAILED miserably in the expressed purpose of his flood, thus proving he was neither omniscient nor omnipotent. You are making up stuff that is not supported by the Bible.

 

[Darwin333]

Last note, according to the Bible, Ham had some weird sex interaction with a passed out drunk Noah. It strikes me as odd that God would see Noah and his family as righteous.

If we are to take the biblical flood at face value there would have had to have been a metric fuckton of incest or the human population would have died off.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

So you are claiming a Localized flood. Ok, how about explaining that to those claiming a Global Flood?

The flood is framed as a miracle and pseudo scientists here are trying to prove a negative?

 

[readymix]

BCE it was free, now in the CE Noah wants $40 for adults and somewhat less for juvi's below 12 and the dried up folk 60+. Looks big, i wonder if it's visible from 30,000.

 

[bshole]

The flood is framed as a miracle and pseudo scientists here are trying to prove a negative?

And creationists are trying to force it into the FUCKING SCIENCE CURRICULUM of every public school in the country?

 

[Paratus]

In a way, the most obvious incorrect assumption being made is the world being defined by our resident pseudo scientists as the planet. The men who wrote the Bible are believed to be devinely inspired however, being human, they must needs frame the knowledge within their own experience. If every seat of civilization they were aware of was inundated with flood waters than that is indeed the world.

So if I understand you, (oh and thanks for the insult), the flood did not cover the Earth. It covered what maybe described as the known world? Buckshot led me to think it was the entire world.

While that changes the total amount of water it doesn't change the rain fall rate. It's by unit area and still 320in/hr.

If your issue is the stories should not be taken as literal I'm in complete agreement. Ken Ham on the other hand does seem to take them as literal.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

And creationists are trying to force it into the FUCKING SCIENCE CURRICULUM of every public school in the country?

Tell me where the bad creationist touched you.

 

[bshole]

Tell me where the bad creationist touched you.

Religion can be traced to Muslim terrorism, abortion clinic bombings, murder and oppression of gays, etc.... It is the substitution of reason for faith. It justifies any evil on earth by a call to an invisible being. I wouldn't have a problem with religion if those who practiced were not always doing their level best to impede progress and make the world a worse place to live in. It is no coincidence that religion is more popular in the most backward and barbaric countries and less popular in advanced civilizations.

For the record, America has started on a steep steep decline. I expect most religions to be functionally extinct in a century or two in 1st world nations. I came from a religious background. My children and most of their cousins are atheists.

 

[Darwin333]

Gods express purpose was stated to kill off mankind and put an end to wickedness. Kind of hard to do that with a local flood. In any event he FAILED miserably in the expressed purpose of his flood, thus proving he was neither omniscient nor omnipotent. You are making up stuff that is not supported by the Bible.

Not to mention that an all knowing God would have known that said wickedness was inevitable from his creation, making his creation a huge fail AND meaning that he knew full well that when he made man that he'd have to kill most of them in a colossal flood that still wouldn't end said wickedness.

If he didn't know all of these things then he isn't all knowing.

 

[IronWing]

Tell me where the bad creationist touched you.

Right in the pocket book. Every time some nutjob or pandering politician decides to "put god back in the schools" my taxes go up to cover the legal costs of the nutjobs' grandstanding. Creationists lost the argument in the private sector decades ago so they took the fight to the public arena. Oil companies don't hire creationists to find oil and biotech firms don't hire creationists to develop new drugs because creationism is an intellectual dead end. It provides nothing useful.

 

[Darwin333]

Tell me where the bad creationist touched you.

The science classroom where they don't belong because what they spew isn't science in the least. Teach it in religion or history class or whatever but don't claim the bullshit is science. The moment you throw your fairy tales into the science realm expect to get owned by people who understand science.