Arizona, the gun friendly state

[Bateluer]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/02/03/20100203weaponbills0203.html

If state law makers have their way, anyway.

The proposed laws would allow people to carry concealed weapons without a permit, end requirements that guns manufactured and kept in Arizona be registered, and allow university professors to carry guns on school grounds.

I'm a big fan of the 2nd Amendment, but I'd still want people to have to go through some training before they're allowed to carry concealed. Not necessarily registration, but safety courses, definitely.

If you're going to carry a deadly weapon with you, it is your right to do so, but you should know how to use the weapon.

 

[spidey07]

<snip> If you're going to carry a ...e of individual liberties regarding firearms.

 

[Robor]

Training is great and all but it should be *real* training. I don't have my carry permit but others here in FL told me the 'training' is a joke.

 

[Specop 007]

So you are ok with open carry that doesnt require training, but want unlicensed concealed carry to require training?

 

[daishi5]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/02/03/20100203weaponbills0203.html

If state law makers have their way, anyway.



I'm a big fan of the 2nd Amendment, but I'd still want people to have to go through some training before they're allowed to carry concealed. Not necessarily registration, but safety courses, definitely.

If you're going to carry a deadly weapon with you, it is your right to do so, but you should know how to use the weapon.

Training has not been shown to have any effect on outcomes in CCW. The type of training that would help a person in a real life or death situation is not something that can be done quickly or cheaply. If they instituted rules of that nature, it would prevent a lot of people from enjoying their rights.

And, before you say "you don't care how much the training costs, the benefits are worth it" CCW carriers hit innocent people at somewhere around 1/11th the rate of police officers. They are already very safe, and there is very little extra benefit to gain.

 

[nick1985]

Allowing professors to carry is a great proposal IMO. The others measures I'm not to sure about...and if you search my posts in gun threads in the past I am a STAUNCH 2nd amendment supporter.

 

[daishi5]

Allowing professors to carry is a great proposal IMO. The others measures I'm not to sure about...and if you search my posts in gun threads in the past I am a STAUNCH 2nd amendment supporter.

Which parts, the unlicensed CCW, I know alaska allows unlicensed carry, and one other state. I think Vermont, but not sure. The states who already allowed carry without a license have not had a problem, I see no reason to expect AZ to be different. I don't know about the registration part, but I haven't really seen any reason to believe registration helps.

 

[nick1985]

Which parts, the unlicensed CCW, I know alaska allows unlicensed carry, and one other state. I think Vermont, but not sure. The states who already allowed carry without a license have not had a problem, I see no reason to expect AZ to be different. I don't know about the registration part, but I haven't really seen any reason to believe registration helps.

Good points. Its not as if a license will stop a criminal from carrying anyway.

 

[Red Dawn]

Well Arizona is the home of Tombstone.

Maybe that place is different than CA and MA. There's too many whackos in those two states for me to feel comfortable allowing people to carry concealed weapons without a permit

 

[nick1985]

Well Arizona is the home of Tombstone.

Maybe that place is different than CA and MA. There's too many whackos in those two states for me to feel comfortable allowing people to carry concealed weapons without a permit

Dont whackos carry no matter what the law says?

 

[Red Dawn]

Dont whackos carry no matter what the law says?

No the vast majority don't.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Dont whackos carry no matter what the law says?

Probably, but then there's the potential to pick up and incarcerate the whackos if they carry without a permit.

 

[nick1985]

No the vast majority don't.

I would think if a criminal wants to carry, a law saying they cant wont stop them. Maybe I'm wrong though

 

[Jaskalas]

I would think if a criminal wants to carry, a law saying they cant wont stop them. Maybe I'm wrong though

Criminals are one thing. What about the crazies?

 

[nick1985]

Criminals are one thing. What about the crazies?

Crazies are one thing. What about the loonies?

 

[Robor]

So you are ok with open carry that doesnt require training, but want unlicensed concealed carry to require training?

Absolutely not. I think all gun owners should get some training. Hell, I purchased mine with nothing more than a background check.

 

[xj0hnx]

No the vast majority don't.

Really? So in California there a vast majority of gangster running around unarmed? Seems that statistics speak a different tounge.

Training has not been shown to have any effect on outcomes in CCW. The type of training that would help a person in a real life or death situation is not something that can be done quickly or cheaply.

This.

Everyone I know that carries shoots at a range on a regular, or at least semi-regular basis. The typical engagement distance in most cases is very close, I want to say something like 3-5m. The CHL class is to familiarize with the law regarding conceal carry, not so much on your shooting ability. They pretty much just make sure you can hit a target from a normal engagement distance.

 

[spidey07]

Really? So in California there a vast majority of gangster running around unarmed? Seems that statistics speak a different tounge.



This.

Everyone I know that carries shoots at a range on a regular, or at least semi-regular basis. The typical engagement distance in most cases is very close, I want to say something like 3-5m. The CHL class is to familiarize with the law regarding conceal carry, not so much on your shooting ability.

Depends on the instructor really. My guy was really good and got muscle memory going on what to do if it fails to fire or jams and had us train on that maneuver. 7 meters is the normal distance I believe. I had to hit the silhouette 11 out of 20 times to pass, which you can do practically with your eyes closed.

 

[xj0hnx]

Depends on the instructor really. My guy was really good and got muscle memory going on what to do if it fails to fire or jams and had us train on that maneuver. 7 meters is the normal distance I believe. I had to hit the silhouette 11 out of 20 times to pass, which you can do practically with your eyes closed.

Our instructor wasn't that indepth, some are, though honestly I don't think the CHL class is the place to be getting your immediate action drill training, at that point you should have some, and be planning more, problem is that there's usually an assortment of firearms, most having differnet procedueres. We have all kinds of courses, classes and competitions here, everything from 3 gun, to carbine course (one of my favorites), Practical shooting, etc.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Well Arizona is the home of Tombstone.

Maybe that place is different than CA and MA. There's too many whackos in those two states for me to feel comfortable allowing people to carry concealed weapons without a permit

Of course its different, its not inhabited by a bunch of left wing stupidheads.

 

[Robor]

Of course its different, its not inhabited by a bunch of left wing stupidheads.

 

[Bateluer]

So you are ok with open carry that doesnt require training, but want unlicensed concealed carry to require training?

My post was specifically directed towards the concealed carry permits and laws, not the open carry laws. If you own a fire arm, you should be responsible enough to know how to handle and use it.

 

[Eric62]

Good for Arizona.
Now if they'd only allow out of state residents to by handguns directly from Arizona gun dealers...

 

[thegimp03]

I would think if a criminal wants to carry, a law saying they cant wont stop them. Maybe I'm wrong though

Plaxico learned that and has a gunshot would to prove it. Haha

 

[feralkid]

Well Arizona is the home of Tombstone.

Maybe that place is different than CA and MA. There's too many whackos in those two states for me to feel comfortable allowing people to carry concealed weapons without a permit

In AZ the real whackos are known as the State Legislature.