Arizona, the gun friendly state

[nobodyknows]

Training is great and all but it should be *real* training. I don't have my carry permit but others here in FL told me the 'training' is a joke.

How much training is needed to figure out how to point the gun at what you want to shoot and pull the trigger? Not much IMO. My Dad taught me that when I was 8?

 

[nobodyknows]

Criminals are one thing. What about the crazies?

Sounds like a personal problem to me.

 

[cwjerome]

Arizona has always been a bit ornery. I like that.

 

[bob4432]

what is the registration they speak of? guns aren't registered in AZ other than nfa. also, if you really want to be off the books you can build your own if you have a mill (or access to cnc equipment) - look up 0-80% ar15 lowers, or ak flats or the link in my sig as that is the "firearm" and the rest of the firearm you can order in via the mail (in free states). if you do choose this, just follow your local laws, not condoning anybody breaking the law - and feel sorry for those that live in prison/police states.

this needs to be done, like it should have been years ago. usually those that are against it are the instructors since they lose the $$$. since "defensive firearm display" was just gone over at the state level this will probably go through this time.

hell, who knows, maybe because phx, az is supposedly going to lay-off 300+ police officers due to budget issues this needs to pass...

 

[PokerGuy]

If you're going to require training for operating a vehicle, I don't see why there wouldn't be some sort of training required for having a firearm on you. Otherwise, good for AZ respecting the 2nd amendment.

 

[Specop 007]

My post was specifically directed towards the concealed carry permits and laws, not the open carry laws. If you own a fire arm, you should be responsible enough to know how to handle and use it.

I understand that. My point is there is no difference between open carrying and concealed carrying except that the rest of the world knows you have a gun on you.

So how could you say you think unlicensed concealed carry should require training when unlicensed open carry currently does not. Its a massive failure of simple logic. Arizona has no problems with untrained and unlicensed individuals carrying a firearm outside there shirt, what will suddenly change when they can put that firearm under their shirt?

Nothing.

 

[Specop 007]

If you're going to require training for operating a vehicle, I don't see why there wouldn't be some sort of training required for having a firearm on you. Otherwise, good for AZ respecting the 2nd amendment.

One is a right, the other a privilege. Big, big difference. Just as you dont require a license or training to speak so to do you not require a license or training to own a firearm. Vehicles are an entirely different matter. To compare them is to compare apples to butter.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/02/03/20100203weaponbills0203.html

If state law makers have their way, anyway.



I'm a big fan of the 2nd Amendment, but I'd still want people to have to go through some training before they're allowed to carry concealed. Not necessarily registration, but safety courses, definitely.

If you're going to carry a deadly weapon with you, it is your right to do so, but you should know how to use the weapon.

Which part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

 

[Bateluer]

How much training is needed to figure out how to point the gun at what you want to shoot and pull the trigger? Not much IMO. My Dad taught me that when I was 8?

Try it at 3am when a burglar breaks in through the window, your wife and kids are scared and crying, and you've got a liter of adrenaline pumping through your blood stream. Hard for any training to prepare you for that though.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Well Arizona is the home of Tombstone.

Maybe that place is different than CA and MA. There's too many whackos in those two states for me to feel comfortable allowing people to carry concealed weapons without a permit

WTF are you talking about? All the wackos and criminals carry guns in CA. The only ones prevented from carry are law abiding people.

You are either dumb or being dishonest in a attempt to pass off the fallacy that CA gun laws somehow protect people from crime when they do not. Criminals in CA, especially gang members have access to any and all the guns and bullets they would need to do their dirty deeds. The average guy on the street cannot legally carry a firearm and has a hell of a time at getting a gun and bullets.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Vermont has no regulations at all regarding the carrying of firearms. I went plinking in the northern part of the state with half a dozen or so handguns under my coat.

You'll note that the handgun death rate in VT is very low. Why? Because they realize it's wrong to go out and shoot people.

That's the difference.

 

[spidey07]

Try it at 3am when a burglar breaks in through the window, your wife and kids are scared and crying, and you've got a liter of adrenaline pumping through your blood stream. Hard for any training to prepare you for that though.

Actually that is the scenario where training comes into play. I'm talking real training that was alluded to earlier in the thread. No think, do.

Training is repeating your plan and actions over and over again until the mind doesn't need to think, it just does. And it does so safely, but ready to fire if target identified and what's beyond it.

A lot of firearm owners have weapons strategically placed in their home where an invader wouldn't know they are there or wouldn't look and the homeowner trains with these positions (full disclosure, all 3 levels of my house). Basically, you enter the home, you will be killed without delay. Attempt to enter the home, you will be killed without delay.

 

[nobodyknows]

Try it at 3am when a burglar breaks in through the window, your wife and kids are scared and crying, and you've got a liter of adrenaline pumping through your blood stream. Hard for any training to prepare you for that though.

Try calling the police and waiting 15 or 20 minutes for them to show up. DUHHHH!!

I recall reading a story about a highly trained individual who shoot his wife when she foregto to shut off the alarm. Go figure.

 

[SirStev0]

My problem with laws like this is that you get a reverse slippery slope. You deregulate. A bunch of assholes and douchebags start fucking up. Good gun owners look bad. The state response by imposing harsher laws then what was originally on he books before the whole thing started.

 

[bob4432]

My problem with laws like this is that you get a reverse slippery slope. You deregulate. A bunch of assholes and douchebags start fucking up. Good gun owners look bad. The state response by imposing harsher laws then what was originally on he books before the whole thing started.

az is already a no permit open carry state, not like we are going form strict CA type gun control to no permit ccw. besides, the people who shouldn't be carrying already are, the playing field is just being made a bit more equal.

you are looking at it one way, you could also look at it that if the assholes, dbags are fucking up, they will be dealt w/ by responsible residents - you don't go around pointing a weapon thinking you are barney bad ass not expecting a higher probability of getting shot now. armed society = polite society

also, when you guys respond, will you tell us where you are from? being a native AZ resident i am sure my views are much different than somebody from D.C.

 

[Red Dawn]

I would think if a criminal wants to carry, a law saying they cant wont stop them. Maybe I'm wrong though

I'm not talking about Gangsters and Criminals, I'm talking about those not playing with a full deck, drunks, idiots with anger issues,etc.

 

[Taejin]

az is already a no permit open carry state, not like we are going form strict CA type gun control to no permit ccw. besides, the people who shouldn't be carrying already are, the playing field is just being made a bit more equal.

you are looking at it one way, you could also look at it that if the assholes, dbags are fucking up, they will be dealt w/ by responsible residents - you don't go around pointing a weapon thinking you are barney bad ass not expecting a higher probability of getting shot now. armed society = polite society

also, when you guys respond, will you tell us where you are from? being a native AZ resident i am sure my views are much different than somebody from D.C.

yeah cause americans can't behave any better except with the threat of death is at hand

lols?

 

[bob4432]

I'm not talking about Gangsters and Criminals, I'm talking about those not playing with a full deck, drunks, idiots with anger issues,etc.

read atf form 4473 - educate yourself. gangsters and criminals are playing w/ a full deck? what world do you live in?

 

[bob4432]

yeah cause americans can't behave any better except with the threat of death is at hand

lols?

every hear of deterrence?

 

[spidey07]

read atf form 4473 - educate yourself. gangsters and criminals are playing w/ a full deck? what world do you live in?

For real. It specifically deals with every single category Red brought up.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

im kinda up in the air with the mandatory training.

1) its a gun.....you point and shoot. These aren't complicated devices

2) Forcing someone to take a safety class will only prove a waste of time. Training in order to be affective has to be ongoing and repetitive.

Perhaps in lieu of training a firearms saftey test should be administered. Study on your own. Multiple choice. with 3 written(write out the 3 rules of gun safety) Even then it would be a stretch to say it will have any meaningful impact.

 

[Red Dawn]

read atf form 4473 - educate yourself. gangsters and criminals are playing w/ a full deck? what world do you live in?

The real world and I want those who might use guns to commit crimes to be prosecuted if they are caught with a concealed weapon before they have a chance to do the crime and I want those who want to carry a concealed weapon to have to get a permit to do so. That doesn't mean I want to deny those who wish to get permit but without the need for a permit any punk kid , asshole, drunk or angry driver can carry.

 

[bob4432]

im kinda up in the air with the mandatory training.

1) its a gun.....you point and shoot. These aren't complicated devices

2) Forcing someone to take a safety class will only prove a waste of time. Training in order to be affective has to be ongoing and repetitive.

Perhaps in lieu of training a firearms saftey test should be administered. Study on your own. Multiple choice. with 3 written(write out the 3 rules of gun safety) Even then it would be a stretch to say it will have any meaningful impact.

atleast in the phx, az vicinity, they aren't safety courses. if you want to take a real course, you seek it out - the ccw courses are neither safety or efficiency or how to shoot courses. they are kind of a quick overview of the law course and see if you can hit a large target ~10-20' away 1/2 of the time w/ no stress

those looking for real classes look towards larry vickers, magpul dynamics, pat rogers among others

 

[bob4432]

The real world and I want those who might use guns to commit crimes to be prosecuted if they are caught with a concealed weapon before they have a chance to do the crime and I want those who want to carry a concealed weapon to have to get a permit to do so. That doesn't mean I want to deny those who wish to get permit but without the need for a permit any punk kid , asshole, drunk or angry driver can carry.

again, read atf form 4473. if you don't pass the requirement to get the concealed permit, you don't pass the requirement to even own a firearm or vice versa. if you go about getting the firearm illegally, i doubt you really care about the laws of how it is to be carried. the permit is an illusion of safety/precaution for the public and a method of gun registration for the gov.

 

[blackangst1]

So you are ok with open carry that doesnt require training, but want unlicensed concealed carry to require training?

So do you have a problem with our open carry law also?