Arizona signs immigration bill into law

[Chaotic42]

That's where they need to focus.

I don't even know if that would work. Too many parts of Northen Mexico are shitholes. I think I'd rather be an illegal in the US than live in the conditions in some of the Mexican cities.

In that case, there's nothing that we as the US can do outside of shooting people at the border. If the impoverished Mexicans have nothing to lose, there's nothing that can be done to them to prevent them from coming over.

 

[peonyu]

A few points that stand out on this issue -

Obama goes on record saying its 'misguided'. Ok what he does expect ? If the states just let the Feds do it then nothing happens at all. History has shown that is the case time and time again. They created this mess by doing nothing...So the only thing 'misguided' that I can see is him expecting the entire country to pretend we dont have a massive illegal alien problem [we do] and for us to pretend that his government [Washington] is doing things to fix it [hint-they are doing jackshit]. So Obama needs to STFU.

Then there is the claim that it is racial profiling. This one is obvious, something like 55% of the total illegal aliens in the country are from Mexico. That goes for states as far away from Mexico as Florida, New York, Maine etc. So this claim is a just stupid. Its like looking for Irish men after 9/11 instead of Arabic men after Arabic written documents were found in connection to it. The source is Mexico. The source of 9/11 was Saudi Arabia [mostly]. As for Arizona, its a border state and the majority of illegal aliens enter into Arizona...90%+ of illegals in that state are from Mexico I bet. So again...Obama and friends need to stfu.

Besides that its great someone has the balls to try and fix this issue on thier own. The Federal government is obviously not behind her and Do Not want illegals out. So this is Arizona VS the Federal Government. Arizona wants to enforce the law, the Federal Government does not, since most likely the higher ups in Washington are getting $$ to do nothing.

 

[peonyu]

John Mccain on the issue...This one is funny. Mr.Mccain just a few years ago, and also while running for president was 100% for amnesty and 100% in agreement that the Government is doing a heck of a job guarding our borders. Anyways he said this today-





""President Barack Obama should dispatch National Guard troops to the border if he doesn’t like Arizona’s new immigration law, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said Friday.

McCain, who endorsed the tough new Arizona law earlier this week, defended it as necessary because of the federal government’s inability to secure the border.

“If the president doesn’t like what the Arizona Legislature and governor may be doing, then I call on the president to immediately call for the dispatch of 3,000 National Guard troops to our border and mandate that 3,000 additional Border Patrol [officers] be sent to our border as well,” McCain said at a news conference Friday in downtown Phoenix, according to a report in the Arizona Republic.

“And that way, then the state of Arizona will not have to enact legislation which they have to do because of the federal government’s failure to carry out its responsibilities, which is to secure the borders.” "

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...e-border-if-you-dont-like-new-immigration-law




Obviously hes another stooge trying to build himself up for the next election. He will likely say hes anti-amnesty sometime to, since he finally figured out the people dont want that. I guess his nickname John Mcamnesty will need to be changed at that time to.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

4th amendment, that's what. it doesn't matter if i have the most boring, useless, pointless conversations or shit in my bag. it's an invasion of privacy, and we have amendments that protect against unreasonable search and seizure.

the question is, what's it worth to you?

for increased safety, peace of mind i'll let them search me.

to prevent illegal immigration so that we're not paying for every border hopping mexican, i'll show some ID.

 

[blackangst1]

John Mccain on the issue...This one is funny. Mr.Mccain just a few years ago, and also while running for president was 100% for amnesty and 100% in agreement that the Government is doing a heck of a job guarding our borders. Anyways he said this today-





""President Barack Obama should dispatch National Guard troops to the border if he doesn’t like Arizona’s new immigration law, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said Friday.

McCain, who endorsed the tough new Arizona law earlier this week, defended it as necessary because of the federal government’s inability to secure the border.

“If the president doesn’t like what the Arizona Legislature and governor may be doing, then I call on the president to immediately call for the dispatch of 3,000 National Guard troops to our border and mandate that 3,000 additional Border Patrol [officers] be sent to our border as well,” McCain said at a news conference Friday in downtown Phoenix, according to a report in the Arizona Republic.

“And that way, then the state of Arizona will not have to enact legislation which they have to do because of the federal government’s failure to carry out its responsibilities, which is to secure the borders.” "




Obviously hes another stooge trying to build himself up for the next election. He will likely say hes anti-amnesty sometime to, since he finally figured out the people dont want that.

Yep sad but true. I dont have a problem with senators changing their views on things...hell, we all do that. But unfortunately when its done by sticking your finger in the air to see which way the wind is blowing, its sad. Im afriad thats what McCain has done on this issue.

 

[peonyu]

The problem is...they all do that now. Its 100% about getting votes to get into office and thats it. The few who are sincere about thier jobs such as the Arizona governor and Sheriff Joe [to an extent] get rammed to hell and back for 'stepping out of line'. If it becomes clear that the majority agree with the Arizona governor, im sure Obama will re-word what he said and jump on the bandwagon [for votes of course]. Similar to how he changed his stance when he opened his mouth about that police issue with a black professor last year [called the cop stupid, then changed his stance when it was obvious the cop was right].

 

[peonyu]

Reading quotes from our leaders is pretty telling. Ok here is Janet Napolitano on the issue. This one is pretty ironic.



Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano, Brewer's predecessor, said the law would hinder federal law enforcement efforts in the state.

"With the strong support of state and local law enforcement, I vetoed several similar pieces of legislation as governor of Arizona because they would have diverted critical law enforcement resources from the most serious threats to public safety and undermined the vital trust between local jurisdictions and the communities they serve," she said in a statement.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-obama-immigration-20100424,0,5923586.story



So Arizona wanting to police itself would hinder the Federal government in thier job of securing the border. LoL. Like I said its ironic. They have been doing a bang up job for sure, hardly any illegal aliens ever make it into Arizona with the great jobs that the Federal Government does!! She was also Arizona's last Governor, so with an attitude like hers its not surprising to see why Arizona is such a fucked up state.

Her being The Secretary of Homeland Security is just icing on the cake.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

This SCOTUS case is pretty relevant:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_v._Sixth_Judicial_District_Court_of_Nevada

I would find it hard to believe that "suspicion of being illegal" ie looking brown or speaking spanish would pass the "reasonable suspicion" test.

Plus the other issue is self-incrimination.

How about someone with a prior record, who has already been deported or is known by the police to be an illegal.

Edwin Ramos's of the world are the poster child for this law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Ramos

There are plenty of people like him around.

Also how is this any worse then cities declaring "Sanctuary City" clauses? What right do cities have to shelter illegal aliens against federal immigration laws and enforcement. If anything this Arizona law is 10x more valid then the sanctuary city bullshit seen throughout California because it attempts to address the problems that feds are not stepping up to the plate and handling in regards to illegal immigration and enforcement of the law.

 

[Throckmorton]

I for one would not want to live in a state with this "show me your papers" law. For middle school I went to a school with a lot of illegals. You thought the gangster culture was bad? Now add in the new reality that cops ARE the enemy and out to deport you. This is a public safety disaster.

 

[theflyingpig]

I for one would not want to live in a state with this "show me your papers" law. For middle school I went to a school with a lot of illegals. You thought the gangster culture was bad? Now add in the new reality that cops ARE the enemy and out to deport you. This is a public safety disaster.

Pathetic. Your post just exposes your limitless ignorance. You'd better run to the caves, Throckmorton, the sky is falling!

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Particularly when it doesn't affect you personally. Some of us are going to have to live with this bullshit.

.....and some of us have to live through the bullshit of "Sanctuary City" clauses harboring and protecting illegal alien criminals from deportation.


Let me go get that violin for your troubles.

 

[peonyu]

I for one would not want to live in a state with this "show me your papers" law. For middle school I went to a school with a lot of illegals. You thought the gangster culture was bad? Now add in the new reality that cops ARE the enemy and out to deport you. This is a public safety disaster.

So what is your solution to the problem.

 

[Fenixgoon]

the question is, what's it worth to you?

for increased safety, peace of mind i'll let them search me.

to prevent illegal immigration so that we're not paying for every border hopping mexican, i'll show some ID.

i have no problem with showing ID. but the problem is the slippery slope - once you let people do that much, it becomes that much easier to make it worse all in the name of security.

that being said.. may just as well wall off mexico. and reopen our borders fully with canada like we had before.

 

[theflyingpig]

So what is your solution to the problem.

Like all liberals he doesn't have one. He just complains. Everyone knows this.

 

[Modelworks]

A better solution to the problem and one that will solve it nationwide is to make the penalties high enough that people will actually care . The way it works now if I hire an illegal, rent to an illegal, harbor an illegal, the penalties are ridiculous in most states, $250 for hiring an illegal ? $125 for renting to illegals, cost of court for harboring an illegal.

Raise the penalty to $25K for knowingly hiring an illegal, or renting or harboring. Once they have nowhere to work or live they have to go back where they came from and will stop coming. Right now the risk for employers, landlords, etc is so low they don't care. Let the people that are providing them the means to live here be the ones repsonsible for proving their status.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Like all liberals he doesn't have one. He just complains. Everyone knows this.

Actually the liberal democrat solution is to flood this nation with enough simple minded, uneducated illegal aliens and then pass an amnesty vote so that they can harvest new votes. How else are they going to push their socialist/communist wealth redistribution inspired crap legislation.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

A better solution to the problem and one that will solve it nationwide is to make the penalties high enough that people will actually care . The way it works now if I hire an illegal, rent to an illegal, harbor an illegal, the penalties are ridiculous in most states, $250 for hiring an illegal ? $125 for renting to illegals, cost of court for harboring an illegal.

Raise the penalty to $25K for knowingly hiring an illegal, or renting or harboring. Once they have nowhere to work or live they have to go back where they came from and will stop coming. Right now the risk for employers, landlords, etc is so low they don't care. Let the people that are providing them the means to live here be the ones repsonsible for proving their status.

I doubt there are any here who would have a problem with this idea period. I would love nothing more then to have a 2 pronged solution to curb the flood of illegal aliens coming into this nation. One solution which deals with making sure our immigration laws are enforced and another which ensures that no one can come in through the back door and sustain themselves.

 

[Modelworks]

If the impoverished Mexicans have nothing to lose, there's nothing that can be done to them to prevent them from coming over.

I have thought about that a lot. There are so many technologies we could use to stop illegal crossings that it is really ridiculous nothing has been done. Some of the ways they could stop crossings with current tech.

Passive IR sensors - can cover 1000ft per sensor
Seismic sensors - can cover almost a mile per sensor.
Radar - can cover miles at a time.
Drones like those used in iraq can stay in flight for 22 hours and cover miles and miles at a time.

The idea that we can't prevent crossings because the border is too big is ludicrous. The truth is they don't really want to stop the crossings.

 

[Throckmorton]

So what is your solution to the problem.

Seal the border, do everything we can to help Mexico be a decent place to live, or enforce the laws against hiring illegal immigrants.

 

[Throckmorton]

A better solution to the problem and one that will solve it nationwide is to make the penalties high enough that people will actually care . The way it works now if I hire an illegal, rent to an illegal, harbor an illegal, the penalties are ridiculous in most states, $250 for hiring an illegal ? $125 for renting to illegals, cost of court for harboring an illegal.

Raise the penalty to $25K for knowingly hiring an illegal, or renting or harboring. Once they have nowhere to work or live they have to go back where they came from and will stop coming. Right now the risk for employers, landlords, etc is so low they don't care. Let the people that are providing them the means to live here be the ones repsonsible for proving their status.

The penalties are that low? In that case, raise them to where they matter.

 

[IronWing]

... There are many who come here to start a new life and secure citizenship through the proper channels. The people who choose to remain here illegally are losers, rejects and criminals who are fully aware of what they are doing.

The annual quota for legal immigration into the US from Mexico is completely filled by folks who already have close family living here legally. There is no legal channel for other Mexicans to immigrate into the US, the quota is filled. This doesn't make coming here illegally acceptable but let us not pretend that there is a legal method available and these folks just can't be bothered to use it.

 

[IronWing]

I have thought about that a lot. There are so many technologies we could use to stop illegal crossings that it is really ridiculous nothing has been done. Some of the ways they could stop crossings with current tech.

Passive IR sensors - can cover 1000ft per sensor
Seismic sensors - can cover almost a mile per sensor.
Radar - can cover miles at a time.
Drones like those used in iraq can stay in flight for 22 hours and cover miles and miles at a time.

The idea that we can't prevent crossings because the border is too big is ludicrous. The truth is they don't really want to stop the crossings.

The Feds have already blown $775 million on a 23 mile long prototype "virtual fence" on the Arizona/Mexico border and it doesn't work. $30 million/mile for failure. The Senate just had hearing a couple days ago on the matter. Even the backers have admitted the project is a boondoggle, yet it continues.

 

[shortylickens]

The annual quota for legal immigration into the US from Mexico is completely filled by folks who already have close family living here legally. There is no legal channel for other Mexicans to immigrate into the US, the quota is filled. This doesn't make coming here illegally acceptable but let us not pretend that there is a legal method available and these folks just can't be bothered to use it.

See? The mexicans are fucking themselves over, AND THEY DONT CARE!
Does anybody not get it yet?
Mexicans are NOT noble victims that need to be protected. They are a group of people like any other group of people on planet earth. Some of them do good things, some of them do bad. Most of them really arent that fucking proud and family oriented. They'd sell their own kids to actually be proper citizens. All the bullshit of so-called "Rich culture" and "strong families" is just an excuse to distract you from all the problems they know they cause. And since they arent American citizens and they are causing problems simply by invading (not to mention many also brings drugs and other shit with them) they really need to be kept in check.
I'm not suggesting we round them up, throw them on buses and drag them back down to the border. I gave up on that notion a long time ago, especially when I saw Obama giving several of his campaign speeches in Spanish.
I do suggest the ones we have here be monitored closely (perhaps by giving each of them a cow) and we try really damn hard to not let another 10 million across the border.

 

[Modelworks]

The Feds have already blown $775 million on a 23 mile long prototype "virtual fence" on the Arizona/Mexico border and it doesn't work. $30 million/mile for failure. The Senate just had hearing a couple days ago on the matter. Even the backers have admitted the project is a boondoggle, yet it continues.

If it cost them $775 million for 23 miles then they were not doing it right.
It could be done for less than $1 million a mile, but then the government has to inflate the cost of everything.

edit:
After running the numbers I could cover a mile with everything required using passive IR for under $400K or 9.2 million for the whole 23 miles.

 

[IronWing]

How about someone with a prior record, who has already been deported or is known by the police to be an illegal.

Edwin Ramos's of the world are the poster child for this law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Ramos

There are plenty of people like him around.

Also how is this any worse then cities declaring "Sanctuary City" clauses? What right do cities have to shelter illegal aliens against federal immigration laws and enforcement. If anything this Arizona law is 10x more valid then the sanctuary city bullshit seen throughout California because it attempts to address the problems that feds are not stepping up to the plate and handling in regards to illegal immigration and enforcement of the law.

Cities have a right to control how their budgets are spent. Sanctuary ordinances usually say something to the effect of "No city dollars shall be spent on enforcing xxx." It is similar to jury nullification. I don't like it either.