Arizona birther bill

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Scary things happen when stupid people get loud and organized.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20003039-503544.html

Kyrsten Sinema, a Democratic representative in the Arizona state legislature, said the "birther bill" recently advanced in the Arizona House would make the state "the laughing stock of the nation." Reaction to the legislation indicates people agree.

The Arizona House of Representatives on Monday voted 31 - 22 to advance a bill that would require Arizona's secretary of state to review a presidential candidate's birth certificate before that candidate could get on the ballot in the state.

The Arizona Republic reports, "The legislation originated from a fringe group that believes President Barack Obama is not a natural-born citizen of the United States and therefore ineligible to be president."

The so-called "birther movement," questioning Mr. Obama's origins, began during his presidential campaign. It has steadily persisted through Mr. Obama's presidency, in spite of overwhelming evidence he was born in the United States -- including his 1961 birth announcement, printed in two Hawaii newspapers.

The White House has been dismissive of the legislation.

"I can't imagine Arizona voters think their tax dollars are well served by a legislature that is less focused on their lives than in fringe right-wing radio conspiracy theories," White House spokesman Bill Burton told CNN.

Robert Schlesinger at U.S. News and World Report took a harsher tone, writing that "members of the Arizona state House have made a strong bid for this year's coveted 'nuttiest legislative body' award."

Steve Benen at the Washington Monthly took the whole Republican Party to task, since the bill was supported by members of the Arizona GOP: "The fact that fringe lunacy is being taken seriously at this level suggests a strain of contemporary Republican thought that's gone stark raving mad," he wrote.

Jon Healey of the Los Angeles Times noted in an opinion piece that Republicans and Tea Partiers in California have taken some steps to distance themselves from the "birther movement," recently rescinding an invitation to Orly Taitz, a leading figure in the birther movement, for a Tea Party event. Still, he wrote that the legislation demonstrates "that the best political myths have half lives that rival some radioactive isotopes."

The legislation still needs to clear major hurdles before become law: the Arizona House needs to give its formal approval, as does the state Senate. Then, the governor needs to sign it. The bill was tacked on as an amendment to another bill that modifies how candidates' names appear on the Arizona ballot.

Arizona Secretary of State Ken Bennett has expressed concern that the amendment may violate the Constitution, the Arizona Republic reports, since it would create state-level eligibility requirements for a federal campaign.

Arizona lawmakers also this week approved a highly controversial immigration bill. It would require police to question people about their immigration status if there's reason to suspect they're in the country illegally, which civil rights groups, the Mexican embassy, a Roman Catholic cardinal and others have said would lead to racial profiling.

And here's Anderson Cooper completely demolishing the whole birther argument and one of the state legislators:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_8VQVhRmAc&feature=player_embedded

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Between this and the ID bill, Arizona is really showing their lack of intelligence.

On the up side, all the other states look a little smarter because of this.

I wonder just what the AZ idiots will want to prove Obama was born in Hawaii? Since a copy of the birth certificate, certified by the state of Hawaii didn't work, what do they want?

Divine message from God, saying he is legal?

 

[Patranus]

Um. Not really sure what the big deal is. I am pretty sure that requirement is in the constitution and if the federal election commission isn't going to check why not AZ?

Its not like this only applies to Obama. It applies to EVERYONE going forward.

Why not remove any question from future elections about eligibility?

 

[IronWing]

Maybe they'll pass a law requiring Pres and VP candidates on the same ticket to demonstrate they aren't from the same state before allowing them on the ballot.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Um. Not really sure what the big deal is. I am pretty sure that requirement is in the constitution and if the federal election commission isn't going to check why not AZ?

Its not like this only applies to Obama. It applies to EVERYONE going forward.

Why not remove any question from future elections about eligibility?

RIGHT............do you really believe for one second that this isn't written for that Kenyan-born President that we have? Really? Given that what, 30-40% of Rep's STILL think Obama was born in Kenya? Patranus, taking intellectual dishonesty to a whole new level since 2007.

So what part of the Hawaii DoH that examined and verified that he has a valid birth certificate doesn't the dumb state of Arizona believe?

 

[cwjerome]

Whether or not I can totally agree with the ID Bill, I can at least see the rationale. I can understand some legitimate concerns.

The birther thing though pisses me off that some down there are wasting their time with this obviously political, petty bs.

 

[Patranus]

Again, not really sure what the big deal is.

Like the immigration issue, the federal government is unwilling to enforce the law or the constitution.

The constitution clearly states that the president must be a natural citizen.
How is requiring someone to prove that irrational?

 

[IronWing]

Again, not really sure what the big deal is.

Like the immigration issue, the federal government is unwilling to enforce the law or the constitution.

The constitution clearly states that the president must be a natural citizen.
How is requiring someone to prove that irrational?

The Constitution already requires it so this bill is unnecessary and likely to be abused. Look at all the morons who are upset that Obama has not provided an original (not a copy), certified birth certificate to each and every American plus videos of his birth with Pearl Harbor in the background.

 

[Rainsford]

Again, not really sure what the big deal is.

Like the immigration issue, the federal government is unwilling to enforce the law or the constitution.

The constitution clearly states that the president must be a natural citizen.
How is requiring someone to prove that irrational?

It's not. And if I had just ridden into town on the back of a turnip truck, I can imagine how I might share your viewpoint that this isn't a big deal.

Except I didn't. And I have ears and eyes, both of which are connected to my brain. And with them I have observed many, MANY people, for incredibly moronic lengths of time, insisting that the President of the United States is obviously not eligible for his office. Despite the fact that there is significant and overwhelming evidence supporting his eligibility, and absolutely NO evidence supporting the conspiracy theory folks. So when a state enacts a law like this, you'll forgive me if I read between the lines a little bit.

I might disagree with you on basically all issues ever...but I don't think you're stupid. Do you HONESTLY believe that this is just the fine folks of Arizona enacting a totally pointless piece of legislation for no reason at all? Or is it nothing more than legislative Obama bashing?

 

[Patranus]

It's not. And if I had just ridden into town on the back of a turnip truck, I can imagine how I might share your viewpoint that this isn't a big deal.

Except I didn't. And I have ears and eyes, both of which are connected to my brain. And with them I have observed many, MANY people, for incredibly moronic lengths of time, insisting that the President of the United States is obviously not eligible for his office. Despite the fact that there is significant and overwhelming evidence supporting his eligibility, and absolutely NO evidence supporting the conspiracy theory folks. So when a state enacts a law like this, you'll forgive me if I read between the lines a little bit.

So what is the big deal?
He will provide his birth certificate to the AZ authorities (like every other candidate) and that will be that.
Same thing will happen next election, and the election after that, and the one after that.

Not really sure why enforcing the constitution is a big deal.......

 

[nonlnear]

The Constitution already requires it so this bill is unnecessary and likely to be abused. Look at all the morons who are upset that Obama has not provided an original (not a copy), certified birth certificate to each and every American plus videos of his birth with Pearl Harbor in the background.

The Constitution does not set a standard of proof, and there are reasonable people who think that a single state level official saying "yes the documents are in order but you can't see them" is a poor standard for proof. The fact that a candidate's finances are open to public inspection but not the birth certificate seems a little strange - especially given the fact that there is a Constitutional requirement specifically pertaining to the birth, but not to the finances.

Frankly I think the requirement of being a natural born citizen is completely antiquated. However until that is changed, it makes sense to have a standardized process for public verification of this simple fact.

And to those who say that supporting this measure is clear evidence that one is a birther, who cares if the birthers support it? This will only bring about their humiliation if Obama runs again. Either way future generations win because we will never have to go through the retardation of another birther episode.

And how exactly is this likely to be "abused"? I just can't imagine how.

 

[Patranus]

And to those who say that supporting this measure is clear evidence that one is a birther, who cares if the birthers support it? This will only bring about their humiliation if Obama runs again. Either way future generations win because we will never have to go through the retardation of another birther episode.

Exactly.

 

[IronWing]

Patranus, I think your pubic hair is metallic green. What, you say it's not? Well obviously there is a controversy here.

Repeating baseless accusations does not a controversy make. There is no controversy here, only sore losers.

 

[Rainsford]

The Constitution does not set a standard of proof, and there are reasonable people who think that a single state level official saying "yes the documents are in order but you can't see them" is a poor standard for proof. The fact that a candidate's finances are open to public inspection but not the birth certificate seems a little strange - especially given the fact that there is a Constitutional requirement specifically pertaining to the birth, but not to the finances.

Frankly I think the requirement of being a natural born citizen is completely antiquated. However until that is changed, it makes sense to have a standardized process for public verification of this simple fact.

And to those who say that supporting this measure is clear evidence that one is a birther, who cares if the birthers support it? This will only bring about their humiliation if Obama runs again. Either way future generations win because we will never have to go through the retardation of another birther episode.

And how exactly is this likely to be "abused"? I just can't imagine how.

Nobody has to do ANYTHING for this to be abused. The insinuation by a state legislature has been made that the President is illegally occupying his office...that's all the damage these people intended to do.

 

[nonlnear]

Nobody has to do ANYTHING for this to be abused. The insinuation by a state legislature has been made that the President is illegally occupying his office...that's all the damage these people intended to do.

Do you know what "abused" means?

 

[DrPizza]

Obviously Arizona is filled with complete morons. Why else would a fraction of their state's legislature be pandering to them? i.e. "If I promote this legislation, the nutcases will vote for me again & I can milk the state for more money."

 

[cwjerome]

The Constitution does not set a standard of proof, and there are reasonable people who think that a single state level official saying "yes the documents are in order but you can't see them" is a poor standard for proof. The fact that a candidate's finances are open to public inspection but not the birth certificate seems a little strange - especially given the fact that there is a Constitutional requirement specifically pertaining to the birth, but not to the finances.

Frankly I think the requirement of being a natural born citizen is completely antiquated. However until that is changed, it makes sense to have a standardized process for public verification of this simple fact.

And to those who say that supporting this measure is clear evidence that one is a birther, who cares if the birthers support it? This will only bring about their humiliation if Obama runs again. Either way future generations win because we will never have to go through the retardation of another birther episode.

And how exactly is this likely to be "abused"? I just can't imagine how.

You are naive to think this is anything but partisan bs and you are naive to think this would quell future partisan bs.

It's a waste of time and an embarrassment. I would hope the state legislature would focus their attention on things that actually matter and affect the state.

 

[IronWing]

And how exactly is this likely to be "abused"? I just can't imagine how.

Candidate: Here is my birth certificate.
Sec of State (partisan politician): I'll have to verify this.
<time passes>
Candidate: Have you verified my filing?
<time passes>
Sec of State: Working on it.
<time passes>
Press: What's up with the candidate's filing?
Sec of State: We're having difficulty verifying the information.
Press: Harumph! Harumph! Harumph! Harumph!
<time passes, election draws near>
Opposing Candidate: The Sec of State of Arizona can't verify that my opponent is even an American!!!!
Press: Harumph! Harumph! Harumph! Harumph!
<time passes, ballot deadline approaches>
Opposing Candidate: The Sec of State of Arizona can't verify that my opponent is even an American!!!!
Press: Harumph! Harumph! Harumph! Harumph!
Candidate: Have you verified my filing?
Sec of State: Yes, we have verified your filing, your name will be on the ballot.

A great deal of damage can be done to a candidate's campaign even though the Candidate and Sec of State complied with the proposed law. The proposed law is purely political.

 

[nonlnear]

You are naive to think this is anything but partisan bs and you are naive to think this would quell future partisan bs.

It's a waste of time and an embarrassment. I would hope the state legislature would focus their attention on things that actually matter and affect the state.

I never said it wasn't partisan BS. Of course it is. However it is a simple fact that there is no standard of proof for the Constitutional requirement that the President be a natural born citizen.

The simple fact is that 99.x% of Presidential candidates will not have any public perception issues with their "natural born" status. Thus the lack of a standard of proof is only going to show up on the public's radar once in a blue moon, and it's always going to seem like a "crazy" political anomaly when it does happen. Yes, there are a lot of crazy people who are really wound up about it, but that doesn't change the fact that the complete lack of standardized legal process for verifying a very simple fact could be fixed forever very easily. You can look at the insanity of the birthers and ignore it, leaving the remote possibility of another distracting sideshow in the future, or you can harness the power of their collective stupidity to actually accomplish a change for the better.

Yes, this is a ploy for political points with very few people involved having genuine care for the institutions they are talking about. However due to some cosmic accident, this pack of stupid people are actually trying to do somethign that is GOOD - despite themselves.

Also I fail to see how this could possibly damage Obama's presidency. It can only help him. He shows up in the run up to 2012 to verify and says, "I followed the law then and I'm following it again now. Here is the certificate, so eat it fuckers. Nyaaah nyahh nyaah!"

 

[JEDIYoda]

Um. Not really sure what the big deal is. I am pretty sure that requirement is in the constitution and if the federal election commission isn't going to check why not AZ?

Its not like this only applies to Obama. It applies to EVERYONE going forward.

Why not remove any question from future elections about eligibility?

That`s a nutty comment and thinking!

The FEC would not have allowed Obama to run if he was not legal...sheese...even you have more brains than that...

 

[JEDIYoda]

I never said it wasn't partisan BS. Of course it is. However it is a simple fact that there is no standard of proof for the Constitutional requirement that the President be a natural born citizen.-- that`s a crock of shit and you know it!!

The simple fact is that 99.x% of Presidential candidates will not have any public perception issues with their "natural born" status. Thus the lack of a standard of proof is only going to show up on the public's radar once in a blue moon, and it's always going to seem like a "crazy" political anomaly when it does happen. Yes, there are a lot of crazy people who are really wound up about it, but that doesn't change the fact that the complete lack of standardized legal process for verifying a very simple fact could be fixed forever very easily. You can look at the insanity of the birthers and ignore it, leaving the remote possibility of another distracting sideshow in the future, or you can harness the power of their collective stupidity to actually accomplish a change for the better.

Yes, this is a ploy for political points with very few people involved having genuine care for the institutions they are talking about. However due to some cosmic accident, this pack of stupid people are actually trying to do somethign that is GOOD - despite themselves.

Also I fail to see how this could possibly damage Obama's presidency. It can only help him. He shows up in the run up to 2012 to verify and says, "I followed the law then and I'm following it again now. Here is the certificate, so eat it fuckers. Nyaaah nyahh nyaah!"

lol

 

[Rainsford]

Do you know what "abused" means?

I think in this context it means "used in a way other than intended for partisan gain"...as opposed to simply being used to enforce and clarify the requirement that the President be a natural born citizen.

And I would argue that we're already at that point. Nobody who isn't an idiot (or is pretending to be an idiot because it makes their argument easier) thinks this bill is about anything beyond calling the President a fraud. It SAYS it's about verification in the future, but the unspoken addition (yelled so loudly my eardrums might burst) is that we NEED this bill because our current President is a fraud.

 

[nonlnear]

lol

Wait, so there is a uniformly enforced standard of verification? What is it? Who enforces it? With what degree of transparency?

And for the record I think this bill does a piss poor job of implementing a standard. If they are going to do this they should do it with a lot more transparency. However as long as states run the ballots, states should feel free to enforce the rules.

Then again I'd prefer an amendment to drop the antiquated "natural born" bit anyways and just make the citizenship requirement something in the 14-20 year range. I'd also like to see a uniform Presidential ballot run by the FEC and not the states, so that would make this all moot anyways. You get two ballots on election day: a Presidential ballot, and a ballot with everything else - and everybody in the country gets the same Presidential ballot.

 

[Rainsford]

...
Also I fail to see how this could possibly damage Obama's presidency. It can only help him. He shows up in the run up to 2012 to verify and says, "I followed the law then and I'm following it again now. Here is the certificate, so eat it fuckers. Nyaaah nyahh nyaah!"

It hurts him because it makes his citizenship an issue that needs special addressing, when it hasn't been for ANY other candidate in any other presidential election. The objective of the birthers isn't to actually disqualify him, it's to make Obama go to special effort to prove his American credentials, while it's just assumed for every other president and presidential candidate.

It doesn't matter if his opponent ends up doing it too...that will get absolutely no attention. If Obama is forced to prove himself through some BS verification procedure that was created in response to his 2008 election, his opponents are half-way to where they want to be.

Basically, it doesn't matter if his ends up being proved right...it's that he had to specially prove it at all, when nobody else up to this point has had to. And as long as Obama's opponents can keep saying "Obama" and "non-citizen" in the same sentence over and over, it doesn't matter whether he ends up being vindicated or not.

 

[daishi5]

It hurts him because it makes his citizenship an issue that needs special addressing, when it hasn't been for ANY other candidate in any other presidential election. The objective of the birthers isn't to actually disqualify him, it's to make Obama go to special effort to prove his American credentials, while it's just assumed for every other president and presidential candidate.

It doesn't matter if his opponent ends up doing it too...that will get absolutely no attention. If Obama is forced to prove himself through some BS verification procedure that was created in response to his 2008 election, his opponents are half-way to where they want to be.

Basically, it doesn't matter if his ends up being proved right...it's that he had to specially prove it at all, when nobody else up to this point has had to. And as long as Obama's opponents can keep saying "Obama" and "non-citizen" in the same sentence over and over, it doesn't matter whether he ends up being vindicated or not.

His opponents would benefit from Obama publicly proving they are wrong with a verified process? How many times have you seen a politician be harmed by proving his opponent is an idiot?