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Argument that corporate exploitation of social issues isnt always a bad thing.

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
79,103
11,993
126


Its from a gay dude, but that shouldnt matter. A solid argument is a solid argument regardless of source.
And its about pride month but thats not the overall point of the article. It applies to everything corporations do to make themselves look better regardless of intent. If you dont feel like reading it, basically anything that gets attention and help to a particular issue is good even though its not perfect and even though it may have been started by greed.

And now I will wait patiently for the deluge of "Social Just Warrior" comments inevitable to this discussion.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,485
4,669
136


Its from a gay dude, but that shouldnt matter. A solid argument is a solid argument regardless of source.
And its about pride month but thats not the overall point of the article. It applies to everything corporations do to make themselves look better regardless of intent. If you dont feel like reading it, basically anything that gets attention and help to a particular issue is good even though its not perfect and even though it may have been started by greed.

And now I will wait patiently for the deluge of "Social Just Warrior" comments inevitable to this discussion.
The criticism is it doesn't actually solve problems or bring about any change.

For example - companies - especially retail ones like Target, Walmart, Amazon, etc... are VERY happy to actively endorse and give money to things like Black Lives Matter. They know it only serves the purpose of continuing to sew division between the lower class and middle-class workers.... You know, instead of them banding together and unionizing?

That's exactly what they want to happen. Keep the peasants fighting with other peasants.



As far as virtue signaling - again, they only change their logos to have rainbows for June ONLY AFTER society has already done the grunt work of normalizing it. They aren't the innovators, they don't change anything, they don't do anything other than virtue signal in an effort for you to see it and hope you buy something. A temporary logo change costs practically nothing - and if it gets morons to go into their store to buy more they don't give a shit. You can say they "look better" if thats all it takes to hit your dopamine and immediately sway you from a piece of shit company into being an amazing company that fights for people. That's precisely what they want you to do while ignoring all the other items they sweep under the rug.




These memes sum it all up perfectly.

1623864702230.png
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1623864756290.png1623864762552.png
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
28,276
11,029
136


Its from a gay dude, but that shouldnt matter. A solid argument is a solid argument regardless of source.
And its about pride month but thats not the overall point of the article. It applies to everything corporations do to make themselves look better regardless of intent. If you dont feel like reading it, basically anything that gets attention and help to a particular issue is good even though its not perfect and even though it may have been started by greed.

And now I will wait patiently for the deluge of "Social Just Warrior" comments inevitable to this discussion.
It's true, there is some benefit to the additional awareness it brings. The more we can normalize each other the better off we will be. All the corporations rushing right back to donating to the Congress critters who defended the insurrection deserve a kick in the teeth though.
 

pmv

Diamond Member
May 30, 2008
8,503
3,493
136


Its from a gay dude, but that shouldnt matter. A solid argument is a solid argument regardless of source.
And its about pride month but thats not the overall point of the article. It applies to everything corporations do to make themselves look better regardless of intent. If you dont feel like reading it, basically anything that gets attention and help to a particular issue is good even though its not perfect and even though it may have been started by greed.

And now I will wait patiently for the deluge of "Social Just Warrior" comments inevitable to this discussion.

Will have to summon up the energy to read that linked article.

But I have to admit I found myself rolling my eyes recently at hearing about Lockheed Martin - the world's biggest arms company and supplier of choice for rockets and missiles with which to blow up Afghan wedding parties and further the violent expansion of US interests across the globe - sending it's executives to corporate racial-sensitivity training courses, where they learn about white privilege and how to be 'woke', while they profit from assisting the US in its endless imperialist adventures.

Apparently Tucker Carlson took a pop at that from the right, but while the right might want to argue that 'not being racist' may somehow impede the US's ability to blow up poor brown-skinned people, it seems to me the problem applies in both directions - how radical can you be if you are happily endorsed by arms companies?


...Having scan-read that article it doesn't seem to really address that issue head-on. The closest it comes is when he mentions that 'Many say' 'that companies doing business with autocratic governments that outlaw homosexuality should have no part in Pride Month.' That seems like the main issue, to me. Outside that I don't see what the problem is.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
51,522
4,058
126
The general census in the community is pretty much in-line with the article. I think it's mostly the younger crowd who haven't been around long enough to realize how significant it is that take issue with it, and the more militant factions. The author calls it pink-washing or rainbow-washing, but I see the term "rainbow capitalism" thrown around a lot more, and it's pretty accurate. It does have a normalizing effect, and for that we're (generally) appreciative.
And regardless, LGBTQ+ kids that live in shithole states still get to see it, and it may be the only avenue of acceptance they see until they move to civilization.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
10,774
7,166
136
The guy makes some good points. I think it's ok to realize that the corporate support can be both good and bad, it's multi-faceted.
 
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The general census in the community is pretty much in-line with the article. I think it's mostly the younger crowd who haven't been around long enough to realize how significant it is that take issue with it, and the more militant factions. The author calls it pink-washing or rainbow-washing, but I see the term "rainbow capitalism" thrown around a lot more, and it's pretty accurate. It does have a normalizing effect, and for that we're (generally) appreciative.
And regardless, LGBTQ+ kids that live in shithole states still get to see it, and it may be the only avenue of acceptance they see until they move to civilization.
If you require a special month to be assigned - and special changing of marketing promotions - and special changing of logos for a limited time...and your own special flag... You aren't normal. That's the exact opposite of normalization. That is literally segregation.

Normalization is the point where you stop talking about it because the overwhelming majority of the population doesn't care what genital you stick in another genital as long as it's another human consenting adult.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
61,145
4,832
126
I think most corps that are "consumer" driven have run the math and it's just simply better business to be inclusive than exclusive. There's only a handful of vocal minorities that will boycott you at this point for selling/promoting Pride ware. And their voice is much bigger than their bite. Companies know that. It's just an easy choice to ignore them.

Actual intent aside, it's a very slow march towards normalizing a historically marginalized community. You gain public awareness. A rainbow flag becomes something that you see in every day things (grocery shopping, community events, ect). It's not something that paints a target on your head any more. The more people see it the less polarizing it becomes. You also gain some funding to help with more focused awareness and activism in communities that need it.
 
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vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
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If you require a special month to be assigned - and special changing of marketing promotions - and special changing of logos for a limited time...and your own special flag... You aren't normal. That's the exact opposite of normalization. That is literally segregation.

Normalization is the point where you stop talking about it because the overwhelming majority of the population doesn't care what genital you stick in another genital as long as it's another human consenting adult.
So black people aren't normal? Got it. Cool.

Normalization *IS* the point. You actively have states trying to withdrawal rights from these communities. The ability to adopt, the ability to marry, control their loved ones medical decisions, ect. It's 2021 and we are still so far away from granting basic rights to people that live here. That *IS* the point of these. While people may not care who sticks what in where, they still vote for politicians that sure seem to.
 
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Homerboy

Lifer
Mar 1, 2000
29,572
3,338
126
If you require a special month to be assigned - and special changing of marketing promotions - and special changing of logos for a limited time...and your own special flag... You aren't normal. That's the exact opposite of normalization. That is literally segregation.

Normalization is the point where you stop talking about it because the overwhelming majority of the population doesn't care what genital you stick in another genital as long as it's another human consenting adult.
Right - LGBTQ+ face no discrimination at all now. Everything is A-Ok for them in their daily lives everywhere they go in the United States and abroad.
"Aren't normal"... the fuck out of here.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Right - LGBTQ+ face no discrimination at all now. Everything is A-Ok for them in their daily lives everywhere they go in the United States and abroad.
"Aren't normal"... the fuck out of here.

That isn't what I said, but hey - you are after-all a complete moron ... so...no surprise that reading comprehension is a challenge.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
61,145
4,832
126
That isn't what I said, but hey - you are after-all a complete moron ... so...no surprise that reading comprehension is a challenge.
Yes you did.

"If you require a special month to be assigned - and special changing of marketing promotions - and special changing of logos for a limited time...and your own special flag... You aren't normal."
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
51,522
4,058
126
If you require a special month to be assigned - and special changing of marketing promotions - and special changing of logos for a limited time...and your own special flag... You aren't normal. That's the exact opposite of normalization. That is literally segregation.

Normalization is the point where you stop talking about it because the overwhelming majority of the population doesn't care what genital you stick in another genital as long as it's another human consenting adult.
Oh, shut the fuck up, you worthless piece of human garbage.
 
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Nov 8, 2012
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Yes you did.

"If you require a special month to be assigned - and special changing of marketing promotions - and special changing of logos for a limited time...and your own special flag... You aren't normal."
O RLY?

Show me where I said "LGBTQ+ face no discrimination at all now. Everything is A-Ok for them in their daily lives everywhere they go in the United States and abroad."?
 

[DHT]Osiris

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2015
8,750
4,857
146


Its from a gay dude, but that shouldnt matter. A solid argument is a solid argument regardless of source.
And its about pride month but thats not the overall point of the article. It applies to everything corporations do to make themselves look better regardless of intent. If you dont feel like reading it, basically anything that gets attention and help to a particular issue is good even though its not perfect and even though it may have been started by greed.

And now I will wait patiently for the deluge of "Social Just Warrior" comments inevitable to this discussion.
To summarize: Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
67,360
4,075
126
I look for anything I can find that explains the psychological origins of these kinds of discussions. What are the psychological laws or dynamics that create them. The following is how I see it.

Everyone wants to see themselves as good but everyone got put down as children. This means we carry feelings of shame and guilt, feeling that are profoundly painful to experience consciously and which could not have been survived if we were not able to seal them off as children by adopting whatever moral stance those who put us down for deviation believed in and which we not also pretend to believe.

But what happens if the beliefs you were forced to believe in are socially repellent to most other people? You can either become a phony pretender, hiding your real phony feelings, or mount a violent war of resistance where you try to make whatever assholery you have been bent into as a child be a new norm of decent and proper behavior. This is what is happening with the Republican racist and mainly South.

Their shit behavior was defeated in the civil war but that racism and the moral sting of being a part of it never really left. People just do not want to admit to being morally wrong.

And along comes Donald Trump, prick extraordinaire to tell those who were hiding not to be ashamed leading at last on Jan 6 to a march on Washington DC to overthrow an election that once again repelled the notion of normalcy to that very assholery.

These Republican cavemen are simply trying to avoid feelings of worthlessness that adheres to the fact that the things they call the good and believe in are abhorrent and morally repugnant earning for them the very title they need to excape, the feeling that what they believe makes them worthless, not just in the eyes of others but in the eyes of the universe. But because, as children, all the praise that they were able to earn came as via the manifestation of that terrible immorality they were taught is the good, they can't let go of it. To let go and to grow emotionally would be to feel that repressed guilt and shame and nullify everything in the way of assholery they had achieved.

But trying to make normal what is assholery, when everyone born without that particular form of conditioning will see it for what it really is, is not a winning strategy because that moral standard they uphold is a form of mental illness and that fact will seek to shine through every time a new child is born.

There is a deep moral truth built into out genes and no amount of conditioning will ever erase it. There will always be those who are driven by the question, who really am I.

This madness will all end for the individual who finds out, and for us all when our children see more of love and compassion rather than of hate.

All, I think, should be welcome on that side of the balence bar no matter how dim their understanding may be.
 

Zorba

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 1999
9,541
3,502
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If you require a special month to be assigned - and special changing of marketing promotions - and special changing of logos for a limited time...and your own special flag... You aren't normal. That's the exact opposite of normalization. That is literally segregation.

Normalization is the point where you stop talking about it because the overwhelming majority of the population doesn't care what genital you stick in another genital as long as it's another human consenting adult.
I'm sure you feel the same way about veterans on memorial and veterans day, right?
 
Nov 8, 2012
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I'm sure you feel the same way about veterans on memorial and veterans day, right?
Well... Yes. Yes I do.

Those holidays - veteran discounts - etc... are done to place them as separate from normal people - almost as if they are on a higher pedestal. They are in a special category. Almost to say that normal people should appreciate them for all of the work they do.

They are thus placed in a higher regard than others by our society.

Is that the objective that people seek with LGBTBBQ+-=?



Is this subject honestly that mentally challenging for you to wrap your head around?
 

snoopy7548

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2005
6,600
3,482
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Well... Yes. Yes I do.

Those holidays - veteran discounts - etc... are done to place them as separate from normal people - almost as if they are on a higher pedestal. They are in a special category. Almost to say that normal people should appreciate them for all of the work they do.

They are thus placed in a higher regard than others by our society.

Is that the objective that people seek with LGBTBBQ+-=?



Is this subject honestly that mentally challenging for you to wrap your head around?
Do you also refuse to celebrate birthdays?
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
10,774
7,166
136
Well... Yes. Yes I do.

Those holidays - veteran discounts - etc... are done to place them as separate from normal people - almost as if they are on a higher pedestal. They are in a special category. Almost to say that normal people should appreciate them for all of the work they do.

They are thus placed in a higher regard than others by our society.

Is that the objective that people seek with LGBTBBQ+-=?



Is this subject honestly that mentally challenging for you to wrap your head around?
Comparing a day to celebrate veterans to a time to celebrate being gay does not compute. Veterans are not a historically discriminated class of people. It simply does not make any sense at all.
 
Nov 8, 2012
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Comparing a day to celebrate veterans to a time to celebrate being gay does not compute. Veterans are not a historically discriminated class of people. It simply does not make any sense at all.
I didn't say they were dum-dum. Need to suck on a dum-dum pop to understand how to rationally debate?
 

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