ARG how can my bf% be this high??

[DomS]

So I weighed in today on 3 different scales, all of them calibrated, and all said almost exactly 189.5 (I'm 5 10). My gym has multiple methods for testing bf% and they all came back between 12.3 and 12.5%. I figured I was at 9.5-10% maybe.

Here's what I'm confused about though. A little over 3 weeks ago I weighed 182. My diet is exactly the same, and I've actually doubled the amount I run each week, from about 6 miles to about 12-13. The only difference is that I'm squatting and deadlifting each week, as opposed to before I would only do one or the other week to week. There's no way I've added 7 lbs. of muscle in 3 weeks, I don't look any different.

So here's what my diet has been like the last few months:


2535 calories per day / 78 grams of fat (28%) / 290 grams of carbs (42%) / 167 grams of protein (27%).

Here's the typical diet for a day on which I workout:

Breakfast:
1.5 servings of Oatmeal
3 hardboiled eggs

Lunch:
2 tunafish (chunk lite) sandwhiches on whole wheat bread, with mayo
apple
banana

Dinner:
1/2 lbs. of pasta w/ sauce
12 oz. top round steak, seperable lean and fat, trimmed to 0" fat.


Here's my typical diet on a day I DON'T work out.

Breakfast:
1.5 servings of Oatmeal
3 hardboiled eggs

Lunch:
2 tunafish (chunk lite) sandwhiches on whole wheat bread, with mayo
apple
banana

Dinner:
12 oz. top round steak, seperable lean and fat, trimmed to 0" fat.


As you can see I just add pasta for the insulin spike on days I workout. What I don't get though is how the hell my fucking bf % can be 12.4%, given that I've kept everything the same, but doubled cardio this past month. Same diet, almost identical routine, 100% increase in cardio = 7 lbs. more, and a 12.4% bf%

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Well, when I refer solely to your progress pics, you don't look 10%, I can tell you that much. When were those taken relative to your gaining 7 pounds?

 

[DomS]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
Well, when I refer solely to your progress pics, you don't look 10%, I can tell you that much. When were those taken relative to your gaining 7 pounds?

Those are older actually, I need to do new ones. I was 190 and around 13% in them.

edit: February 08....jeeze I didn't realize how old they were

 

[brikis98]

Heh, I guess it's all a matter of perspective, but I wouldn't call 12.3% "high". In fact, for a guy carrying a decent amount of body weight (190lbs) and lifting a decent amount at the gym (based on your workout journal), 12% is pretty damn reasonable. Of course, people like to throw body fat percentage numbers around and some people seem to have the impression that over 10% is somehow "fat", which just shows a lack of conception of what the various percentages really look like (image guides like this one help though). If your bf% is in the single digits, you're either really skinny as really ripped. The former isn't typically healthy or desirable and the latter requires (a) good genes and/or (b) obsessively watching your diet. Personally, as long as you're happy with the way you look, feel and perform, I wouldn't worry about the actual number. And if you're not happy, and really do want to get your bf% significantly lower, then you better get used to watching every morsel of food that goes in your mouth.

As for the weight gain despite running more, the only possible answer is that you compensated by eating more. You can argue all you want, but you can't really argue with physics: if you gained weight, you had a calorie surplus. If this doesn't match up with what you saw while tracking your diet, then your estimates for calories in or out are inaccurate and you'll need to tweak them. Hopefully, if you were lifting the whole time, some of that weight gain is muscle, but some of it may have been fat too.

 

[DomS]

Originally posted by: brikis98
Heh, I guess it's all a matter of perspective, but I wouldn't call 12.3% "high". In fact, for a guy carrying a decent amount of body weight (190lbs) and lifting a decent amount at the gym (based on your workout journal), 12% is pretty damn reasonable. Of course, people like to throw body fat percentage numbers around and some people seem to have the impression that over 10% is somehow "fat", which just shows a lack of conception of what the various percentages really look like (image guides like this one help though). If your bf% is in the single digits, you're either really skinny as really ripped. The former isn't typically healthy or desirable and the latter requires (a) good genes and/or (b) obsessively watching your diet. Personally, as long as you're happy with the way you look, feel and perform, I wouldn't worry about the actual number. And if you're not happy, and really do want to get your bf% significantly lower, then you better get used to watching every morsel of food that goes in your mouth.

As for the weight gain despite running more, the only possible answer is that you compensated by eating more. You can argue all you want, but you can't really argue with physics: if you gained weight, you had a calorie surplus. If this doesn't match up with what you saw while tracking your diet, then your estimates for calories in or out are inaccurate and you'll need to tweak them. Hopefully, if you were lifting the whole time, some of that weight gain is muscle, but some of it may have been fat too.

Yeah, I know 12.4% isn't THAT high, but relatively speaking for where I thought I was that's like 6 lbs. of fat difference. I've been using Fitday to track what I eat, and it hasn't changed lately. I've successfully cut & bulked many times, that's why I'm so surprised this time. I'm pissed. Like you said though, can't argue with physics.


One note: I hadn't fasted before the test, I've always been told you have to, but these guys said it didn't matter.

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: DomS

There's no way I've added 7 lbs. of muscle in 3 weeks, I don't look any different.

7 lbs of pure fat at 189 lbs would be 3.7% body fat. That's not terribly noticeable, except at low percentages (a 20% bf man looks almost indistinguishable from a 25% bf man, but there's a noticeable difference between 5% and 10%), especially if you go from memory instead of before/after pictures. It's also possible that there was more food and drink in your system at the second weighing, since you mention that you didn't fast.

These factors mislead many men into thinking it's possible to gain a lot more muscle than is realistic: "I gained 10 lbs of muscle in 2 months!" Well, no, you didn't. You just can't see the fat you've put on during your bulk, and you drank more water during your workout, and we just went to eat. Still more confusing, we even look better, for a given value of better: some of that fat goes over the chest and shoulders, and it's easy to delude ourselves into thinking we're just getting more muscular.

For my part, I gained 10 lbs over the summer when there was a Burger King in the parking lot of my work. My abs weren't as visible, but that was all the difference I could see: one of my friends, when we went back to school, said "Your muscles are more like 'ooh' and less like 'eew' now." This was the result of added bf%, not added muscle mass.

The point of this wall of text, I suppose, is that it can be difficult to notice small changes in body fat. You shouldn't be too hard on yourself, but your numbers aren't unreasonable.

 

[Megatomic]

I'm at about the same point physically DomS. I'm about 5'11", weigh 180 and have about 12% BF. I'd like to get down to 8% this year.

In all actuality, 12% is actually pretty low compared to most other people. People that know me think I'm insane for wanting to get leaner, but I know that competitive triathletes carry around much less flab than I've got.

 

[DomS]

lemme post a whole weeks. Again, the overall intake for protein/carbs/fat is as stated in the OP.

Monday (workout that day)
Breakfast:
8 oz. O.J.
1.5 servings of Oatmeal
3 hardboiled eggs

Lunch:
2 PB&J sandwhiches, on whole wheat bread
apple
banana

Dinner:
1/2 lbs. of pasta (w/ sauce & parmesian cheese)
12 oz. top round steak, seperable lean and fat, trimmed to 0" fat.
8 oz. of 1% milk



Tuesday(workout that day)
Breakfast:
8 oz. O.J.
1.5 servings of Oatmeal
3 hardboiled eggs

Lunch:
2 chunklite tuna sandwiches with mayo, on whole wheat bread
apple
banana

Dinner:
1/2 lbs. of pasta (w/ sauce & parmesian cheese)
12 oz. top round steak, seperable lean and fat, trimmed to 0" fat.
8 Oz. 1% milk




Wednesday (Non-Workout day)
Breakfast:
8 oz. O.J.
1.5 servings of Oatmeal
3 hardboiled eggs

Lunch:
2 buffaloe turkey & pepperjack cheese on whole wheat bread sandwiches
apple
banana

Dinner:
12 oz. top round steak, seperable lean and fat, trimmed to 0" fat.
8 oz. 1% milk



Thursday (Workout Day)
Breakfast:
8 oz. O.J.
1 serving of cream of wheat
3 hardboiled eggs

Lunch:
2 chunklite tuna sandwiches with mayo, on whole wheat bread
apple
banana

Dinner:
Box of organic mac & cheese
12 oz. top loin sirloin pork, seperable lean and fat, trimmed to 0" fat.
8 Oz. 1% milk




Friday (non workout day)
Breakfast:
8 oz. O.J.
1.5 servings of Oatmeal
3 hardboiled eggs

Lunch:
2 PB&J sandwhiches, on whole wheat bread
apple
banana

Dinner:
12 oz. top loin sirloin pork, seperable lean & fat, trimmed to 0" fat
8 oz. of 1% milk





Saturday (non workout day)
Breakfast
8 oz. O.J.
1.5 servings of oatmeal

Lunch
6" Tuna Grinder (With lettuce, green peppers, onions, jalapenos)

Dinner:
3.5 cups of meat tortelini
8 oz. of 1% milk




Sunday (non workout day)
Breakfast
1.5 servings oatmeal
3 hardboiled eggs
8 oz. O.J.

Lunch
8 oz. pasta

Dinner
12 oz. top loin sirloin pork, seperable lean & fat trimmed to 0" fat
8 Oz. Milk

 

[saechaka]

This is just a thought. It seems you were stressed out for a bit. I have a friend who tells me to never work out while stressed. I also remember reading about stress leading towards high level of cortisol. It seems there are some readings out there stating that high cortisol level leads to fat gain.

 

[bananas]

Originally posted by: saechaka
This is just a thought. It seems you were stressed out for a bit. I have a friend who tells me to never work out while stressed. I also remember reading about stress leading towards high level of cortisol. It seems there are some readings out there stating that high cortisol level leads to fat gain.

Wow I didn't know this.

 

[Megatomic]

Originally posted by: bananas

Originally posted by: saechaka
This is just a thought. It seems you were stressed out for a bit. I have a friend who tells me to never work out while stressed. I also remember reading about stress leading towards high level of cortisol. It seems there are some readings out there stating that high cortisol level leads to fat gain.

Wow I didn't know this.

It's true. Cortisol is a stress hormone released by fatty tissues that causes the body to store available energy as yet more fat. Bad bad stuff.

 

[GTKeeper]

I am not going to pretend to know everything about nutrition, but I have a few suggestions.

1. Try doing cardio in the morning and on an empty stomach. Your insulin levels are the lowest in the morning and therefore your body naturally will want to burn more stored fat. Doing 20 min in the morning right after you wake up, is much better than 20 minutes later in the day after you have eaten something. Also doing cardio in the morning will help you keep your metabolism slightly higher throughout the day as well.

2. Contrary to popular belief, it is very hard to gain muscle AND lose fat at the same time. This is why body builders (yeah, the ones that take roids etc.) always do cycles of building muscle and gaining fat (up to 10-14%) and then they spend 1.5-2 months cutting before competition. When you are cutting you are trying to retain as much muscle as you possibly can while losing as much fat as possible.


I personally just try to maintain a certain weight/muscle/fat level at this point in my life, but when I was bigger in college I would try to fist bulk up with heavy weights / low repetitions and a lot of negatives, then I would go into lower weights / high repitition and tons of cardio to get my body fat down. Doing cardio in the morning worked great and it worked for me. I would lose some strength after a cutting period, but then I would start the bulking up period again.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: GTKeeper
I am not going to pretend to know everything about nutrition, but I have a few suggestions.

1. Try doing cardio in the morning and on an empty stomach. Your insulin levels are the lowest in the morning and therefore your body naturally will want to burn more stored fat. Doing 20 min in the morning right after you wake up, is much better than 20 minutes later in the day after you have eaten something. Also doing cardio in the morning will help you keep your metabolism slightly higher throughout the day as well.

2. Contrary to popular belief, it is very hard to gain muscle AND lose fat at the same time. This is why body builders (yeah, the ones that take roids etc.) always do cycles of building muscle and gaining fat (up to 10-14%) and then they spend 1.5-2 months cutting before competition. When you are cutting you are trying to retain as much muscle as you possibly can while losing as much fat as possible.


I personally just try to maintain a certain weight/muscle/fat level at this point in my life, but when I was bigger in college I would try to fist bulk up with heavy weights / low repetitions and a lot of negatives, then I would go into lower weights / high repitition and tons of cardio to get my body fat down. Doing cardio in the morning worked great and it worked for me. I would lose some strength after a cutting period, but then I would start the bulking up period again.

First of all, #1 has no real basis since the only thing that matters with fat loss is caloric intake. If you burn more fat in the morning, but eat at your caloric maintenance, you're going to end the day with the same amount of fat on you. It's the law of conservation of energy applied to the human physiology. If you would like to provide research other than mainstream magazines and such, I would be interested.

Secondly, I think DomS knows #2. He no noob and has read around here a fair amount, I assume. He understands gaining takes extra calories and losing takes a caloric deficit.

 

[TallBill]

What's wrong with 12% ?

 

[GTKeeper]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
First of all, #1 has no real basis since the only thing that matters with fat loss is caloric intake. If you burn more fat in the morning, but eat at your caloric maintenance, you're going to end the day with the same amount of fat on you. It's the law of conservation of energy applied to the human physiology. If you would like to provide research other than mainstream magazines and such, I would be interested.

Secondly, I think DomS knows #2. He no noob and has read around here a fair amount, I assume. He understands gaining takes extra calories and losing takes a caloric deficit.

For #1. Since your stomach is empty and insulin levels are low, you will burn more fat instead of muscle tissue. Yes caloric deficit makes you lose WEIGHT, but whether its fat or muscle, that is the question. Obviously you want it to be more fat than muscle.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: GTKeeper

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
First of all, #1 has no real basis since the only thing that matters with fat loss is caloric intake. If you burn more fat in the morning, but eat at your caloric maintenance, you're going to end the day with the same amount of fat on you. It's the law of conservation of energy applied to the human physiology. If you would like to provide research other than mainstream magazines and such, I would be interested.

Secondly, I think DomS knows #2. He no noob and has read around here a fair amount, I assume. He understands gaining takes extra calories and losing takes a caloric deficit.

For #1. Since your stomach is empty and insulin levels are low, you will burn more fat instead of muscle tissue. Yes caloric deficit makes you lose WEIGHT, but whether its fat or muscle, that is the question. Obviously you want it to be more fat than muscle.

If you're lifting, the stress of muscle repair will force the body to keep the muscle more than the fat, if you're taking in enough protein. Your body's primary source of fuel when protein levels are acceptable and the body is stressed through resistance training is solely fat (if you're doing it right). Fat is mobilized much easier than the breaking down of muscle into amino acids. So #1 still has no basis. You can lose close to solely fat while cutting if your diet is in check.

 

[amicold]

Calipers? They're inaccurate as fuck. If you don't look it, you probably aren't. I wouldn't worry about it unless it was a tank.