Are young men really staying home to play video games rather than looking for work?

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DesiPower

Lifer
Nov 22, 2008
15,299
740
126
I was listening to a podcast few weeks back, it was talking about who college graduates thing that unless the work interests them, they do not need to work, they do not have the concept of earning money anymore. It was scary...
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
29,391
2,736
126

Interesting article. BTW, the study was focused on unskilled workers who were without a coilege degree. I know a few men in their early 20s who play CS and WoW Classic for 12 plus hours a day. Both of these men have dropped out of highschool and are pumping gas in NJ. Unskilled labor that pays about $10 an hour. What really caught my attention is this part of the article.



But like anything it comes at a cost. Leisure is great, but too much of it can be an issue. When you're in your 20s, this is the time that you should be developing your skillset. If you neglect to do this, your future is going to be that much difficult. Especially with the threat of automation. And, of course these men are happy. They have zero stress in their lives which is filled with gaming, reading books and takling vacations. Great if you have the funds, but not so great if you need to work.

Thoughts? Do you know anyone who is staying at home to play video games?
how do these guys pay rent/food if they don't work?
do they live in their parents basement forever???
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,008
8,041
136
As I said in the school bus stop thread - Kids these days don't even know how to cook outside of ramen noodles and hot pockets. As long as we keep supporting their life style the more it will grow.

Absentee parents both working jobs were never going to pass on life skills to their kids. So now the new adults have no skills, with limited ambitions and motivations. The poison of trickle down has worked wonders hollowing out the American workforce and delivering them unto despair.

The solution to all of this is to carry on, push forward with where Capitalism is taking us. Automate, carve out a Basic Income, and let humans simply do what they do.
 
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rcpratt

Lifer
Jul 2, 2009
10,433
110
116
I don't know any of these people personally, but given the number of people that hit 60 in WoW classic in like 2 weeks, they must be out there.
 

Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,723
325
126
My friend's kid is one of those people. Zero motivation to work. Would spend all waking hours playing a MMO if possible. Of course they are enabling it to an extent. He's able to live at home so he has a comfortable place to live and food to eat. He just needs to be allowed to fail. No work= no living at home. Rent and groceries need to be contributed towards in a meaningful way. There needs to be a timeline towards moving out. If not they can discover what its like to try living on minimum wage.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,562
1,741
126
My friend's kid is one of those people. Zero motivation to work. Would spend all waking hours playing a MMO if possible. Of course they are enabling it to an extent. He's able to live at home so he has a comfortable place to live and food to eat. He just needs to be allowed to fail. No work= no living at home. Rent and groceries need to be contributed towards in a meaningful way. There needs to be a timeline towards moving out. If not they can discover what its like to try living on minimum wage.

I was talking to this guy (about 21) who pumps my gas. He plays WoW 16 plus hours a day. Zero ambition.He told me that he stayed up for 5 days in a row when playing WoW. Dropped out of HS. No drivers license. Nothing. The only thing he has going for him is he's young. He lives with both mom and grandmother. I have a feeling his grandmother is allowing this behavior. The mom is on assistance because she has some type of mental illness. It's sad. And, the only way he's going to learn is whenn he gets a rude awakening. Maybe he will be thrown out. Go homeless.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,481
3,601
126
Absentee parents both working jobs were never going to pass on life skills to their kids. So now the new adults have no skills, with limited ambitions and motivations. The poison of trickle down has worked wonders hollowing out the American workforce and delivering them unto despair.

It's more than 'both working jobs' though. Good parenting takes effort and that is something many parents lack regardless of how much time they spend at work
 
Nov 8, 2012
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It's more than 'both working jobs' though. Good parenting takes effort and that is something many parents lack regardless of how much time they spend at work

This. Just because parents work doesn't mean they can't spend time or teach their kids right.

Over the course of the entire lives of the kids growing up if you can't find some time to teach your kids simple things like chores and cooking dinner that is totally on the parents. If you (as the parent) have to cook every night, then simply showing your kids while you're doing things isn't a difficult concept.

I think more than ever parents just have a lack of patience and just want their kids out of their way all the time.
 
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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
It may be the best decision for them in terms of optimizing average happiness over their lifetime. They are enjoying their 20s to the max, maybe that will lead to miserable 30s and 40s, but there is no guarantee that if they were working some entry level jobs now they wouldn't have miserable 30s and 40s anyways. So on average, who is to say the best course of action for them is not to play video games all day if that's what brings them maximum enjoyment now?
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
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It may be the best decision for them in terms of optimizing average happiness over their lifetime. They are enjoying their 20s to the max, maybe that will lead to miserable 30s and 40s, but there is no guarantee that if they were working some entry level jobs now they wouldn't have miserable 30s and 40s anyways. So on average, who is to say the best course of action for them is not to play video games all day if that's what brings them maximum enjoyment now?

Ehhh, the problem is in your 20s is your prime to shine. It's the best time in your life to advance - because once you get into 30s it's all downhill from there.

In your 30s your more likely to....
  • Be tired earlier and more often
  • Be more lazy a lot of times - and also just be more "injured"
  • Be less likely to go to school or try to get into a new field
  • More likely to have a kid to look after (taking more of your time)
  • More likely to have a wife (taking more of your time)

So getting back up and advancing is

I also agree, that in your younger (more particularly teenage years) is your prime time to do stuff like play videogames.... As much as I binge played World of Warcraft and countless other games... I can still say I miss it. The responsibilities I have now just take all my time though. When you're young and in school your responsibilities a lot of times are just attend school and don't fail. Dinner will be served for you, etc...
 

Staples

Diamond Member
Oct 28, 2001
4,953
119
106
A lot of youtubers work pretty hard actually (I know this because I've made a few videos in my lifetime). There are some who are successful who do crap like lets play video games videos and those are not hard, a single take and not much editing but for most, it is a full time job. Those people are actually working every bit as hard as someone with an "acceptable" job. I would not for a second equate those with young people who have no job and just sit on their ass and play video games all day.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,459
12,613
126
www.anyf.ca
The thing with Youtube is you got to be smart with your money, ideally it should be a secondary income but if it's not you should be saving a good chunk of it. You are at the mercy of Youtube and they have not been known to uhh be merciful. If someone flags your video for any stupid reason, or the algorithm does automatically, you lose monetization for that video. Heck lot of people get their entire channel shut down. Especially science channels or anything dangerous. Stuff with guns tends to get shut down fast too. By the time you fight to get it back it's too late, as most of the views happen when a video is first released. A lot of youtubers are relying on sponsorships and Patreon now which helps, but I would not be surprised if Youtube eventually puts an end to that. If Youtube comes out with their own version of Patreon then they won't allow you to use 3rd party ones. They already do this with streaming, if you post to Youtube you're not allowed to use Twitch or other platforms.

I think the biggest thing is to always have a backup plan. Basically a way to turn your Youtube hobby itself into work you do for others. So say you're a 3D printing channel, then offer 3D printing services for example.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,749
584
126
My fear for the Youtubers who rely 100% on that income is that their whole income scheme could end at the drop of a hat. Youtube's algorithm could ban their account for some stupid reason, or some assholes could report 3 of their videos for copyright etc... it's a very fragile thing that can stop outputting fast. There is not really any staff behind Youtube it's all automated and sometimes it fails hard and it's very hard to get that fixed.

Meh. Lots of people have no marketable skills outside of dying industries they work in. They're no worse off than a coal miner in a dying coal town, in fact their skills might actually transfer to adjacent industries a lot easier and they probably live in a better location with more opportunities.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,749
584
126
Ehhh, the problem is in your 20s is your prime to shine. It's the best time in your life to advance - because once you get into 30s it's all downhill from there.

In your 30s your more likely to....
  • Be tired earlier and more often
  • Be more lazy a lot of times - and also just be more "injured"
  • Be less likely to go to school or try to get into a new field
  • More likely to have a kid to look after (taking more of your time)
  • More likely to have a wife (taking more of your time)

So getting back up and advancing is

I also agree, that in your younger (more particularly teenage years) is your prime time to do stuff like play videogames.... As much as I binge played World of Warcraft and countless other games... I can still say I miss it. The responsibilities I have now just take all my time though. When you're young and in school your responsibilities a lot of times are just attend school and don't fail. Dinner will be served for you, etc...

If all you want to do is pump gas and play WOW then none of those things about your 30s will matter. No wife, no kids, who cares about a new field when you only need to play your wow bill.

They probably won't have a hard time until their parents retire or die. Then yeah, they'll be really screwed.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,552
10,171
126
They already do this with streaming, if you post to Youtube you're not allowed to use Twitch or other platforms.
Is this true? That's an anti-trust lawsuit waiting to happen. I hope that it does!

Imagine if supermarkets started doing that, putting on the bottom of receipts, "If you shop here, you agree not to shop at any other grocery store for 5 days."

Can you imagine, that in the EULA for your web browser of choice, there was a similar statement, that "Upon installing this browser, all other web browsers on your PC will be un-installed"... and then the installer proceeded to do that? I wonder if they could do that, if they could weasel-word installing a browser, as a "team effort"/"partnership", or a "Software Franchisee agreement".
 
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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,952
16,210
126
That Ryan's Toys family made 22 millions in 2019. I think they don't mind you looking down on them.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
68,459
12,613
126
www.anyf.ca
Is this true? That's an anti-trust lawsuit waiting to happen. I hope that it does!

Imagine if supermarkets started doing that, putting on the bottom of receipts, "If you shop here, you agree not to shop at any other grocery store for 5 days."

Can you imagine, that in the EULA for your web browser of choice, there was a similar statement, that "Upon installing this browser, all other web browsers on your PC will be un-installed"... and then the installer proceeded to do that? I wonder if they could do that, if they could weasel-word installing a browser, as a "team effort"/"partnership", or a "Software Franchisee agreement".

That's the part that sucks, they can put whatever the hell they want in the EULA and you "agree" to it by installing, if you don't agree then you are expected to just not use the product. I think it's BS myself, but most people just accept it. How often do you hear people even defend EULAs that way. "well if you don't like it don't use it". I think it's ridiculous really. I just want to use the product (in some cases one I even pay for) I don't want all the strings attached. Like all the products you buy that require you to tie it to the cloud, I should not have to agree to any of that, I paid money for the product that advertises it does something, I should be able to get that functionality without having to agree to anything more.

Here's one example of Youtube not allowing to stream on Twitch:
Basically, they just roll it as "spam" since you're using their platform to drive people away from their site. Which has me wondering, lot of Youtubers will post their other social media in their videos or even their own personal sites. Technically if Youtube really wanted to they could disallow that too.
 

BarkingGhostar

Diamond Member
Nov 20, 2009
8,409
1,617
136
That's the part that sucks, they can put whatever the hell they want in the EULA and you "agree" to it by installing, if you don't agree then you are expected to just not use the product. I think it's BS myself, but most people just accept it. How often do you hear people even defend EULAs that way. "well if you don't like it don't use it". I think it's ridiculous really. I just want to use the product (in some cases one I even pay for) I don't want all the strings attached. Like all the products you buy that require you to tie it to the cloud, I should not have to agree to any of that, I paid money for the product that advertises it does something, I should be able to get that functionality without having to agree to anything more.

Here's one example of Youtube not allowing to stream on Twitch:
Basically, they just roll it as "spam" since you're using their platform to drive people away from their site. Which has me wondering, lot of Youtubers will post their other social media in their videos or even their own personal sites. Technically if Youtube really wanted to they could disallow that too.
Example: Patreon.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,552
10,171
126
Sounds like YouTube is opposed to users using their YT channels to advertise their twitch streams. I don't think that's the same thing as prohibiting users from streaming on twitch and also posting videos to YouTube. After all, these forums don't allow you to use them to advertise your own YouTube channel; that doesn't mean that "Anandtech Forums disallows posting here and posting YouTube videos."
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
22,027
11,607
136
First topic: MMO addiction

There've been cautionary tales about MMO addiction for over a decade. MMOs are mostly out-of-fashion now, so . . . why are people still worried about them, specifically? You're more likely to get a CS/DotA/LoL addict than MMOs. In any case, EQ and WoW didn't destroy Western civilization. A few introverts found new reasons to not interact with people and/or pursue careers, families, or any of the other things that they're supposed to want.

Gaming addiction in general has been a "thing" since the 80s, and again, Western civilization didn't destroy itself as result. Nor did South Korea (and they're even more hardcore than anyone in the West). If you see someone disappear into a gaming world, it's because they don't like where they are in any other part of their life, so they choose to do something they actually enjoy (or that at least gives them a sense of accomplishment). Addiction or not, it really says something about the quality of their life outside of video games more than anything else.

Youtube vs. twitch:

Sounds like YouTube is opposed to users using their YT channels to advertise their twitch streams. I don't think that's the same thing as prohibiting users from streaming on twitch and also posting videos to YouTube. After all, these forums don't allow you to use them to advertise your own YouTube channel; that doesn't mean that "Anandtech Forums disallows posting here and posting YouTube videos."

YT users are doing a little of both. LazyPurple (a TF2 streamer, among other things) advertises his Twitch stream on Youtube and vice versa.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
18,604
11,304
136
I played video games way more than I care to admit when I was 18-22, but I still maintained employment and went to college. Addiction is real, it's a mental ailment, and some people are more prone than others to throw it all away for ___________.

Ditto. It got me in trouble at work early on. When I became self-employed at 23 I largely cured myself of it through a combination IMO of me visiting customers and working on their computers (what am I going to play there?), the fact that I can either choose to waste my time gaming or earn money (ie. no salary), and that my work is actually interesting most of the time and I can choose when I work without someone wagging their finger at me for leisure in 'company time'. I steer clear of MMOs not out of experience particularly but I can see the addictive and time-sensitive aspect of it far more so than single player gaming.
 
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