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Are young men really staying home to play video games rather than looking for work?

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Feb 25, 2011
16,461
1,284
126
I've run into a few people like that (the 12-hours-a-day gamers) IRL. Most of them were quietly collecting a disability check. (Sometimes ex-military, sometimes SSDI for one reason or another.)

Generally speaking, I don't have a problem with that.
 
Nov 8, 2012
13,860
1,853
126
I am in all honesty shocked that there isn't more MMO development these days .

There's nothing better from a revenue perspective than continuous monthly billing IMO.... even better than the stupid lootbox crap.
 

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
40,456
773
126
This is an example using video games, but it's a form of depression. Our economy is in a weird situation where it's booming, but the middle class isn't benefiting. It seems to be a direct result of the 2008 Great Recession where companies that had a lot of cash on hand survived (Apple being the great example). As a result, large businesses are keeping cash reserves instead of distributing it to workers. 44% of full time workers in the US are making less than $18K a year right now, but salary averages are being skewed by upper-middle class workers making over $100K. This is why you should laugh at and reject any further "trickle down" tax breaks you see.

More bad statistics:
60% of full time US jobs make less than $20/hr- that's less than $40K/yr
Accounting for inflation, minimum wage workers made 20% more in 1968 than they do today

Couple this with "society tax"...expenses that didn't exist 40 years ago:
- Internet connection
- Cell phone
- Higher quality food as only option (I grew up on $.99/lb bologna sandwiches and Campbell's soup. Nobody eats that stuff anymore due to health risks)
- Lack of public transportation in increased rural populations require car ownership
- Housing costs are on average 400% more expensive than 40 years ago (coastal cities are skewing this statistic)
- a college degree is the new high-school diploma- you need it to get a career level job. With an average cost of $40K, you're in debt the second you go out into the world.
- Health care used to be a given- most career level positions provided 80/20 or even full health coverage. Now most workers have to pay for their own healthcare in systems they can not afford.

All of these and other issues = a generation that's designed from the ground up to be poor. THIS is why there's so much depression and anxiety in young people today: they feel they're destined to fail. The only way to change this is to begin electing leaders that will force change, not ones that can draw the biggest amount of cult members to their rallies. America is heading toward a caste system very quickly and it needs to stop.

If I had to face that, I'd probably live with my parents and play videogames all day too.
 

nakedfrog

Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
48,741
1,910
126
Sounds like YouTube is opposed to users using their YT channels to advertise their twitch streams. I don't think that's the same thing as prohibiting users from streaming on twitch and also posting videos to YouTube. After all, these forums don't allow you to use them to advertise your own YouTube channel; that doesn't mean that "Anandtech Forums disallows posting here and posting YouTube videos."
Unsurprisingly, your portrayal is much closer to reality than the squirrel's.
 

snoopy7548

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2005
4,183
1,489
136
This is an example using video games, but it's a form of depression. Our economy is in a weird situation where it's booming, but the middle class isn't benefiting. It seems to be a direct result of the 2008 Great Recession where companies that had a lot of cash on hand survived (Apple being the great example). As a result, large businesses are keeping cash reserves instead of distributing it to workers. 44% of full time workers in the US are making less than $18K a year right now, but salary averages are being skewed by upper-middle class workers making over $100K. This is why you should laugh at and reject any further "trickle down" tax breaks you see.

More bad statistics:
60% of full time US jobs make less than $20/hr- that's less than $40K/yr
Accounting for inflation, minimum wage workers made 20% more in 1968 than they do today

Couple this with "society tax"...expenses that didn't exist 40 years ago:
- Internet connection
- Cell phone
- Higher quality food as only option (I grew up on $.99/lb bologna sandwiches and Campbell's soup. Nobody eats that stuff anymore due to health risks)
- Lack of public transportation in increased rural populations require car ownership
- Housing costs are on average 400% more expensive than 40 years ago (coastal cities are skewing this statistic)
- a college degree is the new high-school diploma- you need it to get a career level job. With an average cost of $40K, you're in debt the second you go out into the world.
- Health care used to be a given- most career level positions provided 80/20 or even full health coverage. Now most workers have to pay for their own healthcare in systems they can not afford.

All of these and other issues = a generation that's designed from the ground up to be poor. THIS is why there's so much depression and anxiety in young people today: they feel they're destined to fail. The only way to change this is to begin electing leaders that will force change, not ones that can draw the biggest amount of cult members to their rallies. America is heading toward a caste system very quickly and it needs to stop.

If I had to face that, I'd probably live with my parents and play videogames all day too.
Yep. Just read this article on ars this morning about a lower minimum wage (for the non-college educated) being linked to an increase in depression and suicide:

 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
14,032
3,221
136
I am in all honesty shocked that there isn't more MMO development these days .

There's nothing better from a revenue perspective than continuous monthly billing IMO.... even better than the stupid lootbox crap.
MMO development has mostly ground to a halt. Look at what happened with Elder Scrolls Online (ESO). Millions up front for development, and now it's $10 for unlimited play with a cash shop for expansions/cosmetics. It's hard to get anyone to pay subscription prices anymore. WoW can do it, FFIV can do it, and . . . just about everyone else has failed.

F2P gaming and cash shops are where it's at now.

Having played EQ, FFXI, and WoW during their respective heydeys (along with other games like Anarchy Online, Dark Age of Camelot, and others), I can tell you that the current crop of content is a lot less addictive despite being designed to promote binge gaming. It's hollow in comparison.

@Fritzo

Not exactly true. A lot of companies are spending those cash reserves on stock buybacks. Wages are finally starting to creep up for the lower income set, but there's no sign of how long that will last or if it will meaningfully outpace the damage inflation has done over the last 50 years.
 

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
40,456
773
126
@Fritzo

Not exactly true. A lot of companies are spending those cash reserves on stock buybacks. Wages are finally starting to creep up for the lower income set, but there's no sign of how long that will last or if it will meaningfully outpace the damage inflation has done over the last 50 years.
That's the equivalent of "keeping money in-house"...stock buybacks instead of distribution. The top two things holding people back right now are healthcare costs and student loans. Some analysts are saying resetting those two factors to 1990's levels alone would cause a middle class boom not seen since the 1920's.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
53,613
6,986
126
www.uovalor.com
Sounds like YouTube is opposed to users using their YT channels to advertise their twitch streams. I don't think that's the same thing as prohibiting users from streaming on twitch and also posting videos to YouTube. After all, these forums don't allow you to use them to advertise your own YouTube channel; that doesn't mean that "Anandtech Forums disallows posting here and posting YouTube videos."
That's basically what it is, it all comes down to the same. What Youtube will sometimes do is remove your streaming privileges as punishment over breaking some petty rule or some absurd copyright claim. Now the natural thing to do is to just stream somewhere else until that expires, but since you can't tell your audience where you're streaming.... well you get the idea.

This is another example incident:


In the comments he also talks about how he's not allowed to even talk about his Twitch account if he wants to stream on another platform.
 

Mai72

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
9,022
508
126
This is an example using video games, but it's a form of depression. Our economy is in a weird situation where it's booming, but the middle class isn't benefiting. It seems to be a direct result of the 2008 Great Recession where companies that had a lot of cash on hand survived (Apple being the great example). As a result, large businesses are keeping cash reserves instead of distributing it to workers. 44% of full time workers in the US are making less than $18K a year right now, but salary averages are being skewed by upper-middle class workers making over $100K. This is why you should laugh at and reject any further "trickle down" tax breaks you see.

More bad statistics:
60% of full time US jobs make less than $20/hr- that's less than $40K/yr
Accounting for inflation, minimum wage workers made 20% more in 1968 than they do today

Couple this with "society tax"...expenses that didn't exist 40 years ago:
- Internet connection
- Cell phone
- Higher quality food as only option (I grew up on $.99/lb bologna sandwiches and Campbell's soup. Nobody eats that stuff anymore due to health risks)
- Lack of public transportation in increased rural populations require car ownership
- Housing costs are on average 400% more expensive than 40 years ago (coastal cities are skewing this statistic)
- a college degree is the new high-school diploma- you need it to get a career level job. With an average cost of $40K, you're in debt the second you go out into the world.
- Health care used to be a given- most career level positions provided 80/20 or even full health coverage. Now most workers have to pay for their own healthcare in systems they can not afford.

All of these and other issues = a generation that's designed from the ground up to be poor. THIS is why there's so much depression and anxiety in young people today: they feel they're destined to fail. The only way to change this is to begin electing leaders that will force change, not ones that can draw the biggest amount of cult members to their rallies. America is heading toward a caste system very quickly and it needs to stop.

If I had to face that, I'd probably live with my parents and play videogames all day too.
Yea, I was talking with a 24 year old guy yesterday. He's a huge video gamer. Plays 12 hours a day. I seriously doubt that he's EVER had a girlfriend. He walsk with his head down. Just an observation. Anyway, he pumps gas. I asked him how he was doing and he was like "Oh, I slept in my bed and watched movies on my phoane all day." I was like What the hell. How could you be young and so out of it. Zero ambition. Oh, I'm sure there is more to his story, but it just makes you think what is going on.
 

skull

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2000
2,054
260
126
I will continue to say this is all a parenting problem.
I say its diet, exercise and sleep. People eat like shit processed junk, pop, insane amount of carbs, not enough fruit and veggies. Get little to no sleep, then don't get any exercise and wonder why they're depressed and have no energy/motivation.

Which by all means parenting plays a huge part. My parents didn't make me eat healthy or enforce a good bed time or exercise. Didn't realize how much of a difference it all made until I got older and started taking care of myself. I feel so much better than I did when I was younger chugging down pop eating crap and not getting enough sleep.
 

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
40,456
773
126
I say its diet, exercise and sleep. People eat like shit processed junk, pop, insane amount of carbs, not enough fruit and veggies. Get little to no sleep, then don't get any exercise and wonder why they're depressed and have no energy/motivation.

Which by all means parenting plays a huge part. My parents didn't make me eat healthy or enforce a good bed time or exercise. Didn't realize how much of a difference it all made until I got older and started taking care of myself. I feel so much better than I did when I was younger chugging down pop eating crap and not getting enough sleep.
Well, lack of scheduling might have to do that.

<old person> Back in MY day, all stores and businesses closed by 8pm latest. There was no Internet, so you watched one of 3 networks on TV, fell asleep on the couch by 9:30, went to bed by 10pm, and were up for work at 6:30am.

Today, everything is open 24 hours, entertainment is 24 hours, and there is no hard-set boundaries. It causes people to exhaust themselves looking for constant stimulation, and that takes a toll on mental & physical health. </old person>

I'm sure that's part of the problem. I'm still convinced the playing field is skewed for young people though, and that's no fault of their own...
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
21,469
615
126
Oh and I'll be honest... I literally was that guy. I played World of Warcraft like crack... I was the most geared hunter on my server. My /played time on that character was over a year (not joking) - and I had 2 other max lvl characters.

Went to college... and magically...started wanting to chase incredibly attractive college girls... quit cold turkey and sold my account on eBay. That was when I lost my computer nerd gaming self :( Twas rather sad.... I miss part of it still.

But I also dropped 150+ pounds... mostly from chasing the girls. Shit is exhausting.
You could have probably just found a girl on WoW, and saved yourself the trouble of losing the weight. If I learned anything from playing that game, there are a lot of crazy chicks playing it. :)
 

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
40,456
773
126
You could have probably just found a girl on WoW, and saved yourself the trouble of losing the weight. If I learned anything from playing that game, there are a lot of crazy chicks playing it. :)
90% of them are actually dudes...
 
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Reactions: Ken g6
Nov 8, 2012
13,860
1,853
126
You could have probably just found a girl on WoW, and saved yourself the trouble of losing the weight. If I learned anything from playing that game, there are a lot of crazy chicks playing it. :)
Eh, was for the best anyhow. Needed to graduate and learn some basic social skills.

I have no idea if I would have obtained the successful jobs that I have today if I didn't quit that crack addiction.
 

nakedfrog

Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
48,741
1,910
126
Isn't it more likely that it's not down to a single cause, and that it's aspects of all these factors?
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
53,613
6,986
126
www.uovalor.com
I am in all honesty shocked that there isn't more MMO development these days .

There's nothing better from a revenue perspective than continuous monthly billing IMO.... even better than the stupid lootbox crap.
I was running a UO server for a long time and it got me itching to start my own MMO but never did. I'm not really that good at doing graphics or GUI stuff so that would be the hardest part but the server part would be fun. I too am very surprised it's not a game model that is developed much as it does have good potential both for making money and for simply having a good game that people enjoy. I always thought a game that combines Ultima Online with Minecraft would be cool. Essentially all the MMO aspects of UO, but in a sandbox world like Minecraft.

Maybe I should just make it web based and open source the protocol then someone else can make the desktop client. :p Actually even a game like Evony would be kinda neat to do and not as hard. I played that game for a while and even got suckered into microtransactions. You reach a point where it's near impossible to keep your troops or cities without scripting the hell out of it though due to constant need to farm for food for your troops.
 

ShookKnight

Senior member
Dec 12, 2019
295
249
71
If I could live on unskilled labor wage, I would do the same thing.

I honestly don't care about advancement (I have no hopes, desires and dreams to be executive/leader/president anything... ever). I work to live (and eventually retire).

As long as rent, utilities, food and 1 vacation a year are covered, I am good to go.
 

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