Are white pasta/rice bad for general health?

[Mr. Pedantic]

What I said was still true. From wikipedia article on gluconeogenesis:

"All citric acid cycle intermediates, through conversion to oxaloacetate, amino acids other than lysine or leucine, and glycerol can also function as substrates for gluconeogenesis."

All amino acids (what is protein made of again? Oh yeah, amino acids) minus lysine and leucine can be used for creation of glucose. If you're in a state of ketosis, the body is forced to make its own glucose. It does take a while to adapt (2 weeks for the early arctic explorers who learned to adopt the traditional diet of the Inuit) but the body will run just fine.

I will acknowledge the point if you can prove that this produces 'plenty of glucose' under normal physiological conditions. As I've said before, from my understanding unless there is a massive overabundance of protein intake and severe restriction of carbohydrate this is not a relevant pathway.

As for Arctic explorers, it is much more likely that it was fat, rather than protein, that they should credit for their survival.

 

[spamsk8r]

I will acknowledge the point if you can prove that this produces 'plenty of glucose' under normal physiological conditions. As I've said before, from my understanding unless there is a massive overabundance of protein intake and severe restriction of carbohydrate this is not a relevant pathway.

As for Arctic explorers, it is much more likely that it was fat, rather than protein, that they should credit for their survival.

By "plenty of glucose" I mean "enough to continue living." If this was not the case everyone who ever did the Atkins diet would have dropped dead. I'm not suggesting the body will create sufficient glucose to enable intense anaerobic exertion, although it does seem that as the body adapts to a state of ketosis it becomes more efficient at burning fat for fuel, enabling fairly good aerobic capacity. Under ketosis fat does become the primary fuel for most organ systems, no doubt, so the need for glucose is drastically reduced, and the amount that is still required does get produced from amino acids and other substrates.

I think you're assuming that ketosis is not a state of "normal physiological conditions" which is debatable in itself. I've seen it suggested by some researchers that ketosis may in fact be the default state of the human metabolism, but it's a point of speculation either way so I won't argue it.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

By "plenty of glucose" I mean "enough to continue living." If this was not the case everyone who ever did the Atkins diet would have dropped dead.

The body can survive with almost no glucose at all. "Enough to continue living" can basically be however much you want.

Also, the Atkins diet is not a 'no-carbohydrate diet'. It is a low-carbohydrate diet. There is a significant difference.

I'm not suggesting the body will create sufficient glucose to enable intense anaerobic exertion, although it does seem that as the body adapts to a state of ketosis it becomes more efficient at burning fat for fuel, enabling fairly good aerobic capacity.

Interesting. Is there a paper about this? I'd like to read it when I have some more free time.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

I suggest eating only the whitest possible pasta. Brown stuff is unhealthy for you. You want proof? Look at the color of waste products from the body!

 

[ibex333]

Disclaimer: I am not a medical doctor, and I do not claim that anything I say is true short of my personal story.

Judging from my research, rice, potatoes, sugar, pasta, and bread are in fact BAD for general health when consumed in anything more than "minimal quantities". I have my own personal story to back this claim up.

So anyway.. I have IBS, and I been eating a lot of potatoes, rice, bread and pasta most of my life, because, well, these are the some of the few foods that dont give me furious, violent diarrhea a few hours later.

Last summer my doctor took some blood tests and my triglycerides were 200+. she prescribed Lovaza (Omega 3 Fish fat). Unfortunately I pretty much ignored her and only took Lovaza occasionally. Fast forward to last week, I has another blood test done, and my triglycerides are now 500+ !!! This time, I am REALLY scared, and I vowed to eliminate starchy and sugary foods from my diet. Why would I do that you may ask?

Today I did some reading on the internet, and according to what I found, it's not the animal or vegetable fats that increase triglycerides, but the fat that is converted from sugars and starches!!! So that is where my huge nasty belly came from! All that rice, potatoes and pasta I been eating 3-4 times every week... And that is where my bad blood tests came from as well... I'd say I am well on my way to stroke/heart attack/diabetes, if I dont start doing something now.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Disclaimer: I am not a medical doctor, and I do not claim that anything I say is true short of my personal story.

Judging from my research, rice, potatoes, sugar, pasta, and bread are in fact BAD for general health when consumed in anything more than "minimal quantities". I have my own personal story to back this claim up.

So anyway.. I have IBS, and I been eating a lot of potatoes, rice, bread and pasta most of my life, because, well, these are the some of the few foods that dont give me furious, violent diarrhea a few hours later.

Last summer my doctor took some blood tests and my triglycerides were 200+. she prescribed Lovaza (Omega 3 Fish fat). Unfortunately I pretty much ignored her and only took Lovaza occasionally. Fast forward to last week, I has another blood test done, and my triglycerides are now 500+ !!! This time, I am REALLY scared, and I vowed to eliminate starchy and sugary foods from my diet. Why would I do that you may ask?

Today I did some reading on the internet, and according to what I found, it's not the animal or vegetable fats that increase triglycerides, but the fat that is converted from sugars and starches!!! So that is where my huge nasty belly came from! All that rice, potatoes and pasta I been eating 3-4 times every week... And that is where my bad blood tests came from as well... I'd say I am well on my way to stroke/heart attack/diabetes, if I dont start doing something now.

No offense, but because you have a condition like IBS, most of what you said doesn't apply to the general population. Just like I think a lot of the inflammatory "evidence" of grains is supported by research on individuals with Celiac's disease and gluten sensitivity. In these cases, grains AREN'T going to be great for you because they promote dysfunction. Most of the other research in a healthy population supports grains. Like you though, I wouldn't support it as much as the food pyramid, but a few servings a day seems to promote health to a certain degree.

 

[Murloc]

lol I can't understand this.
Cereals are the basis of the human diet, why would that be bad if you don't get fat?
I eat pasta or rice or bread everyday.
If you don't eat this what do you eat?
Salad and fish all day erryday?

 

[daRkKon]

everything in moderation i say for the most part, white grains are not as healthy or nutritious as whole wheat pastas or brown rice, which i think taste better anyways.

 

[ibex333]

No offense, but because you have a condition like IBS, most of what you said doesn't apply to the general population. Just like I think a lot of the inflammatory "evidence" of grains is supported by research on individuals with Celiac's disease and gluten sensitivity. In these cases, grains AREN'T going to be great for you because they promote dysfunction. Most of the other research in a healthy population supports grains. Like you though, I wouldn't support it as much as the food pyramid, but a few servings a day seems to promote health to a certain degree.

I see what you are saying, but note that my father doesn't have IBS and is not allergic to gluten. However, he was always eating huge quantities of bread with most of his meals. A few years before he was diagnosed with diabetes, his doctor kept telling him about high triglycerides in his blood. Most of the warnings were ignored, and diabetes followed. Off course I cannot be 100% sure that diabetes was the direct result, but I find it alarming to say the least...

lol I can't understand this.
Cereals are the basis of the human diet, why would that be bad if you don't get fat?
I eat pasta or rice or bread everyday.
If you don't eat this what do you eat?
Salad and fish all day erryday?

That's pretty much correct. I found that some vegetables are less irritating to my stomach than others and so I make salads almost every day, and I eat a lot of lean meat and fish. I compliment that with eggs, cottage cheese and canned tuna/crab every now and then. Maybe once or twice a week I allow myself some starchy/sugary foods in small quantities, but I try to avoid even that right now. (read above post)