Are we there yet? Anybody still in doubt that a Trump Presidency is a national disaster?

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buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
In the criminal justice system, our own federal and state laws and the basis of British common law and Roman law, we have evolved a standard of evidence favoring the accused. We are willing to let the guilty go free by mistake, rather than convict the innocent.

In the realm of science, there is no dead certainty, nor is there a bias of the kind when we discuss Truth with a Judicial Notice. It is True that Zimmerman was "not guilty," but there is some noticeable degree of uncertainty as to whether he was innocent.

Take the entire frenzy that began with Benghazi. 4 dead of which 3 had a well-trained history in the military. A tragedy, based on bad intelligence, risk-taking, and basically a worthy objective of establishing relations with a country that supplies a certain grade of oil to Europe.

When the barracks of 200+ marines was blown up in Beirut in 1983, did we impeach Reagan? But the Benghazi hearings were not a non-partisan commission; they were a purely political legislative witch-hunt, and a manufactured propaganda event of deliberately permanent duration. By scratching the scab over and over and over, the so-called liberal media echoed it to people who only got their facts from the media, and repetition prevailed over "no THERE there."

The argument and false justification that there is extensive voter fraud cannot be proven by the statistics. the statistics summarize what has been discovered; it may miss something that isn't discovered; but the statistics will indicate the likelihood that there are more or less of those. The way the system works in local precincts and districts, the number of fraud cases in this election could probably be counted on one or two hands. As anecdotes, some of them are hilariously absurd -- including a Trump voter who tried to vote twice.
Can we agree that "illegal aliens" voting is some non-zero number? That is a pretty straight forward question, don't you think? If it is, then we should try and find out what that number is. Not sure what Benghazi or Beirut has to do with this question.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
Can we agree that "illegal aliens" voting is some non-zero number? That is a pretty straight forward question, don't you think? If it is, then we should try and find out what that number is. Not sure what Benghazi or Beirut has to do with this question.
How can we agree on that without the audit? C'mon, buckshot, I know you're still reading these. Let's Audit 2016! Let's find out the true results of the election together!
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,839
2,625
136
Can we agree that "illegal aliens" voting is some non-zero number? That is a pretty straight forward question, don't you think? If it is, then we should try and find out what that number is. Not sure what Benghazi or Beirut has to do with this question.
Absolutely not-if you have some proof of illegal aliens ACTUALLY voting in the 2016 election, bring it out. Otherwise this is just one more bit of FauxNews/GOP imaginary BS propaganda with the end intention to restrict the right of certain types of legit citizens to vote.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
Absolutely not-if you have some proof of illegal aliens ACTUALLY voting in the 2016 election, bring it out. Otherwise this is just one more bit of FauxNews/GOP imaginary BS propaganda with the end intention to restrict the right of certain types of legit citizens to vote.
I see, you're completely unreasonable and not worth talking to about this. The idea that 0 "illegal aliens" voted in 2016 just isn't a credible belief. I'm not advocating or arguing for anything here so get off the grassy knoll.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,782
33,768
136
I see, you're completely unreasonable and not worth talking to about this. The idea that 0 "illegal aliens" voted in 2016 just isn't a credible belief. I'm not advocating or arguing for anything here so get off the grassy knoll.
Lay out your evidence or shut up. Pretty simple.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
Lay out your evidence or shut up. Pretty simple.
How about no?

Just so you know, I don't know how many voted and I don't know if it is significant or not. I was asking you if you believe the number is higher than 0, that's about all.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,725
6,754
126
The tried and true GOP formula of creating out of thin air this huge beast, this existential threat to the way of life for every "real" American and then providing the answer to it in the form of a conservative candidate actually worked again, but not in any way, shape or form that the GOP heads of state desired. Instead of the sock puppet that they wanted, they, and via the forces of unintended consequences, and everyone else got Trump.

As with the Bush/Cheney admin, no matter how badly these two arrogant neocons mismanaged and damaged the nation, for their enablers, they (both Bush and the enablers themselves) could do no wrong. Everything that went wrong got laid at the feet of the opposition for their attempts at pointing out what was going wrong and what could be done to remedy the (at the time) declining circumstances everyone in the nation was experiencing. It took a crashed and trashed economy to effect corrective measures via the voting booths across the nation.

Well, here we have a perfect example of history repeating itself, and so far, well on track toward the predicted path that you previously laid out. (I'm still wondering how you did that) ;)

But this time, in spite of what you suggested was required to get a corrective reboot of the nation's programming, I'm hoping it will only be for four years instead of eight, with the thought in mind that the less time Trump spends wrecking things, the less time it will take to recover from his actions.

And despite acknowledging the ominous yet necessary events that might preclude the painful healing process required, I'm still hopeful in a fitfully small way, that Trump may surprise us once again and provide a path to stability and prosperity FOR ALL this time around, and one that avoids a calamitous turn of events to make it all happen.
I hope so too but fearful because so far, to me at any rate, it doesn't look very good.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,782
33,768
136
How about no?

Just so you know, I don't know how many voted and I don't know if it is significant or not. I was asking you if you believe the number is higher than 0, that's about all.
So it was pointless speculation on your part. Maybe an attempt to divert attention from the main point, that the Reps lost the popular vote, but only you know if that was your reason for posting baseless speculation.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
So it was pointless speculation on your part. Maybe an attempt to divert attention from the main point, that the Reps lost the popular vote, but only you know if that was your reason for posting baseless speculation.
They didn't in congress and the Senate race in California didn't have a GOP candidate. I directly addressed those subjects so I have no idea how I could be diverting attention away from it.

I was trying to get some common ground which I'm afraid isn't possible here as people are always trying to head each other off at the pass.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
They didn't in congress and the Senate race in California didn't have a GOP candidate. I directly addressed those subjects so I have no idea how I could be diverting attention away from it.

I was trying to get some common ground which I'm afraid isn't possible here as people are always trying to head each other off at the pass.
Let's audit the entire vote of 2016. Absolutely worth the resources to find out where voting was tampered with, obstructed, or otherwise fraudulent or illegitimate! Let's find all the holes in this system!
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,725
6,754
126
How about no?

Just so you know, I don't know how many voted and I don't know if it is significant or not. I was asking you if you believe the number is higher than 0, that's about all.
I believe it above zero, some of Trumps supporters are obviously so exercised about Democrats voting twice that some of them managed to vote twice, sarcasm intended here, but the number is so small that Trump would have won without them. I believe that no serious person with technical knowledge of the subject believes there is a level of voter fraud that warrants the extraordinary measures Republicans advocate to remedy it. There can be no doubt, also I would say, that the real intention of all these 'safety measures' is to squelch minority voting. I also firmly believe that this behavior of Republican politicians to push the notion that the vote is significantly fraudulent is a hideous, despicable, and tratorous position to take. I would say that generally speaking this kind of behavior by Republicans makes them lower than swine. You are not the only group that can feel loathing and contempt. The way Republicans win is by cheating and they cheat is many many ways. I understand, however, that you lack the moral fiber to face this and must believe as you do, that voter fraud is a real issue. Just know that if we lived in a jungle and you cheated like that as a tribal member, you would be beaten to death. You survive because there is no moral accountability in politics. Liberals, after all, brought civilization to humanity.
 
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Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,076
2,635
136
Vote suppression, gerrymandering, and a constant distraction with relatively minor and non-impactful but controversial social issues is how they stay in power.

"Hey let's stop talking about healthcare, social security, the environment, and our crumbling infrastructure and dependence on fossil fuels and instead let's pass another abortion law and transgender law. That'll keep the our base occupied whilst we cut back taxes on the rich and remove social support for the middle class and poor". Honestly I have no idea what is going through the heads of some GOP supporters. Or what is going through the heads of Democratic supporters who sit on the sidelines and don't vote.
 
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buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
I believe it above zero, some of Trumps supporters are obviously so exercised about Democrats voting twice that some of them managed to vote twice, sarcasm intended here, but the number is so small that Trump would have won without them. I believe that no serious person with technical knowledge of the subject believes there is a level of voter fraud that warrants the extraordinary measures Republicans advocate to remedy it. There can be no doubt, also I would say, that the real intention of all these 'safety measures' is to squelch minority voting. I also firmly believe that this behavior of Republican politicians to push the notion that the vote is significantly fraudulent is a hideous, despicable, and tratorous position to take. I would say that generally speaking this kind of behavior by Republicans makes them lower than swine. You are not the only group that can feel loathing and contempt. The way Republicans win is by cheating and they cheat is many many ways. I understand, however, that you lack the moral fiber to face this and must believe as you do, that voter fraud is a real issue. Just know that if we lived in a jungle and you cheated like that as a tribal member, you would be beaten to death. You survive because there is no moral accountability in politics. Liberals, after all, brought civilization to humanity.
Here we go with the racist liberal who thinks only white people can get valid forms of identification.
 
Jul 9, 2009
10,758
2,086
136
Only a Democrat would claim that keeping illegal aliens, the dead and felons from illegally voting is "voter suppression".
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
155
106
Of course there is no "level of voter fraud that warrants the extraordinary measures", in the same way as there is no danger by trannies in the wrong bathroom, gays or even by extremist Islamists (in the US, at least).

It is just yet another made-up lie, together with all those other emotional subjects which they need for their gullible base. The more controversial, the more emotional, the better. FRAUD. Imagine: F.R.A.U.D. Scary stuff!!! <---- The best thing is, those people continue to believe this shit even after they won the elections. (For any normal person, the fact they actually won would have settled the question whether there is a major fraud going on). But not enough. Now they're making up stories about millions (!) of illegals having voted and these votes "don't really count", means that Trump actually won the PV as well according to their "logic", making reality up as they go along.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,076
2,635
136
Only a Democrat would claim that keeping illegal aliens, the dead and felons from illegally voting is "voter suppression".
Why shouldn't someone who served their time and paid their debt be able to vote? Can you give me a reasonable reason why that is other than voter suppression against mostly black people?
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,076
2,635
136
Here we go with the racist liberal who thinks only white people can get valid forms of identification.
You realized the courts sided with the racist liberal. Republican courts in Republican states. I mean it's pretty beyond the pale when white Republican judges are saying "hey guys this is pretty shitty and you need to cut it out or at least try harder to veil your intentions"
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,725
6,754
126
Here we go with the racist liberal who thinks only white people can get valid forms of identification.
I told you that framing the issue in that way makes you a moral piece of scum and added you would never see it because you're a moral coward who doesn't have the balls to look at himself. Did you really imagine I was anticipating that you would agree with me. You don't deserve the right to vote, you hideous twit. You will never ever ever be a real man until you can look at yourself so I'm willing to help you. You are just that pitiful. Don't worry, I can help you see. I did and I'm a lot worse than you are.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
I told you that framing the issue in that way makes you a moral piece of scum and added you would never see it because you're a moral coward who doesn't have the balls to look at himself. Did you really imagine I was anticipating that you would agree with me. You don't deserve the right to vote, you hideous twit. You will never ever ever be a real man until you can look at yourself so I'm willing to help you. You are just that pitiful. Don't worry, I can help you see. I did and I'm a lot worse than you are.
I'm not sure what you were anticipating but I believe everybody can get proper identification, not just whites.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
You realized the courts sided with the racist liberal. Republican courts in Republican states. I mean it's pretty beyond the pale when white Republican judges are saying "hey guys this is pretty shitty and you need to cut it out or at least try harder to veil your intentions"
It doesn't matter who says what, my point still stands.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Only a Democrat would claim that keeping illegal aliens, the dead and felons from illegally voting is "voter suppression".

Only a right winger would allege that happens with no proof whatsoever.

It's merely an affirmation of faith like reciting the apostle's creed.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,076
2,635
136
It doesn't matter who says what, my point still stands.
Lol. Your opinion is more important and more accurate than that of federal courts. That sounds about right

Just like how trump knows more about ISIS than all our generals combine and knows more about wikileak hacking than 17 US intelligence agencies. That also sounds about right
 
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