Londo_Jowo
Lifer
Wow, North Korea's Navy is impressive.
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Are we going to have war in korea
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Fanatical Meat
Lifer
This is the real danger. NK has thousands of artillery pieces that they could use to do heavy damage to the south. Admittedly they're military is pretty inept but even a bunch of random shots would be damaging. It would take a bit to use aircraft and counter artillery measures to stop them.
trenchfoot
Lifer
Wow, North Korea's Navy is impressive.
I heard the best offensive weapon to use against those are slingshots @ a range of 25 ft.
Anything more lethal than that would be considered inhumane and a grievous violation of the Geneva Convention.
BonzaiDuck
Lifer
"Are we going to have war in Korea?"
Maybe . . . maybe not.
If we do, I can imagine that it will end quickly -- even if unfortunate for South Korea, definitely and permanently unfortunate for the North DPRK.
One needs to look a little deeper -- more so than I have -- to fully understand how this thorn in the side of civilization has never been excised.
The war of 1950-1953 began partly because Dean Acheson -- Secretary of State -- misspoke in a manner parallel to April Glespie with Saddam before the first Gulf War. In a public statement, he had said as much that South Korea wasn't in America's defense periphery.
Korea, the Hermit Kingdom, had been partitioned before the beginning of the last century, and largely occupied by the Japanese up until the end of WWII.
So, consider the pattern. Japan had a Emperor of dynastic succession. Now, and since the death of Grandfather Kim, DPRK has shown nothing but dynastic succession. Japan has "moved on;" DPRK has not.
Our understanding of the Korean War was tempered with the myth of an International Communist Conspiracy -- that the major Communist countries were all acting in unison. And it APPEARED that they were in Korea, but it wasn't so. The elder Kim was held equally in contempt by both Stalin and Mao, but he lobbied heavily for support in his ambitions to unify the peninsula by military force. The Soviets gave war materiel. The Chinese only offered to enter the war if the US crossed the 38th parallel of the post-war partition. In the early part of the war, MacArthur's troops had all but won back the North. So close they were to the Yalu River that the Chinese then entered the conflict.
Just as we are sometimes encumbered by old alliances, so are the Chinese. Before Little Kim [Jong Un] ascended to power, the Chinese were trying to encourage free agricultural markets with land-ownership of small plots in the North. The proposal was rejected by Kim Jong Il. Today, methamphetamine manufactured by DPRK drug labs has ravaged the northern provinces of China.
South Korea is China's fourth largest trading partner. So it remains to be seen how things will shake out if Little Kim tries to pull something as Hitler did with the invasion of Czechoslovakia.
As for their military hardware, last I heard or saw, they're still sporting old Russian hardware from the 1980s.
The population of DPRK is ~ 24 million. The population of South Korea is at least double that.
DPRK latched onto this obsession with nukes -- perhaps because MacArthur had threatened to use them on the mainland -- perhaps not. But they somehow think that becoming a "nuclear power" will enhance their influence in the world -- and it won't. It will only exacerbate conflict and tension. And it will only divert scarce resources from a starving, brain-washed population.
I have a weak theory that every time Kim and DPRK do something provocative or "newsworthy," it's because they want more attention and more bribes. And I think that at the moment, they're unhappy that an agreement with Iran may succeed. Since there's so much news afoot about the pending Iran agreement, I only suspect they're shaking their baby-rattle at the west -- seeking more attention.
However, that's idle speculation. It's equally useful to see recent trends and behaviors as an indication that the criminal gang that runs a fascist DPRK regime is beginning to fall apart. Sure -- Little Kim as probably no less a sociopath or lunatic than his father or grandfather -- perhaps more so. But getting news-mileage out of an execution made with an anti-aircraft gun, throwing the checkers-board up in the air while the South continues trying to negotiate "reunification," firing artillery in response to "noise pollution" -- these are acts of desperation.
In the end, they (DPRK) know that reunification cannot end well for their criminal gang. It would not be a win-win result.
Maybe . . . maybe not.
If we do, I can imagine that it will end quickly -- even if unfortunate for South Korea, definitely and permanently unfortunate for the North DPRK.
One needs to look a little deeper -- more so than I have -- to fully understand how this thorn in the side of civilization has never been excised.
The war of 1950-1953 began partly because Dean Acheson -- Secretary of State -- misspoke in a manner parallel to April Glespie with Saddam before the first Gulf War. In a public statement, he had said as much that South Korea wasn't in America's defense periphery.
Korea, the Hermit Kingdom, had been partitioned before the beginning of the last century, and largely occupied by the Japanese up until the end of WWII.
So, consider the pattern. Japan had a Emperor of dynastic succession. Now, and since the death of Grandfather Kim, DPRK has shown nothing but dynastic succession. Japan has "moved on;" DPRK has not.
Our understanding of the Korean War was tempered with the myth of an International Communist Conspiracy -- that the major Communist countries were all acting in unison. And it APPEARED that they were in Korea, but it wasn't so. The elder Kim was held equally in contempt by both Stalin and Mao, but he lobbied heavily for support in his ambitions to unify the peninsula by military force. The Soviets gave war materiel. The Chinese only offered to enter the war if the US crossed the 38th parallel of the post-war partition. In the early part of the war, MacArthur's troops had all but won back the North. So close they were to the Yalu River that the Chinese then entered the conflict.
Just as we are sometimes encumbered by old alliances, so are the Chinese. Before Little Kim [Jong Un] ascended to power, the Chinese were trying to encourage free agricultural markets with land-ownership of small plots in the North. The proposal was rejected by Kim Jong Il. Today, methamphetamine manufactured by DPRK drug labs has ravaged the northern provinces of China.
South Korea is China's fourth largest trading partner. So it remains to be seen how things will shake out if Little Kim tries to pull something as Hitler did with the invasion of Czechoslovakia.
As for their military hardware, last I heard or saw, they're still sporting old Russian hardware from the 1980s.
The population of DPRK is ~ 24 million. The population of South Korea is at least double that.
DPRK latched onto this obsession with nukes -- perhaps because MacArthur had threatened to use them on the mainland -- perhaps not. But they somehow think that becoming a "nuclear power" will enhance their influence in the world -- and it won't. It will only exacerbate conflict and tension. And it will only divert scarce resources from a starving, brain-washed population.
I have a weak theory that every time Kim and DPRK do something provocative or "newsworthy," it's because they want more attention and more bribes. And I think that at the moment, they're unhappy that an agreement with Iran may succeed. Since there's so much news afoot about the pending Iran agreement, I only suspect they're shaking their baby-rattle at the west -- seeking more attention.
However, that's idle speculation. It's equally useful to see recent trends and behaviors as an indication that the criminal gang that runs a fascist DPRK regime is beginning to fall apart. Sure -- Little Kim as probably no less a sociopath or lunatic than his father or grandfather -- perhaps more so. But getting news-mileage out of an execution made with an anti-aircraft gun, throwing the checkers-board up in the air while the South continues trying to negotiate "reunification," firing artillery in response to "noise pollution" -- these are acts of desperation.
In the end, they (DPRK) know that reunification cannot end well for their criminal gang. It would not be a win-win result.
davmat787
Diamond Member
No problem actually, we'll just fire up HAARP and have stiff winds blowing up the peninsula to the north for a couple weeks. Maybe the fallout will reach China, not that they'd notice with all the pollution.
davmat787
Diamond Member
This.
Wasn't a year or two ago when North Korea was shelling some of the Souths islands near the border?
How the fuck was I supposed to know it was about ding dongs?
davmat787
Diamond Member
Because people who are assholes are nearly universally driven by an endless need to satisfy their base desires at all costs?
In Kim's case it's ding dongs obviously, everyone knows this.
kage69
Lifer
NK has already been beefing up artillery positions and moving troops around, but I just heard that 50 of their 70 or so subs set to sea, and 10 amphibious landing ships have been loaded with SF and sent to a forward base pretty close to the Northern Limit line.
Fat boy gettin froggy.
Fat boy gettin froggy.
Londo_Jowo
Lifer
bingo!!!!
Nebor
Lifer
The NK leadership knows they can't prevail in a war with SK\USA. Their plan is to fire as much artillery south as they can, as fast as they can, for as long as they can. A lot of their artillery is on rails, so it can fire (inaccurately) while moving in order to evade counter-fires. But even inaccurate artillery can hit a target as big as a city. They'd also use their medium range rockets to crater our runways in Japan to delay US air power until the runway could be repaired or a carrier group could make it into the area. There are also a huge amount of tunnels running under the DMZ, some large enough to drive tanks through, that pop out all over SK.
Joke about the Norks as much as you want, but there are a lot of them, and they're fanatically dedicated. We would win the war, but it would be at a huge cost to South Korea. And in the end, what's to be gained? North Korea? No one even wants it at this point. It's a burden.
Zeze
Lifer
NK & SK reached an agreement. I mean, ofc they did- neither wants war.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/24/asia/koreas-tensions/
* SK gets an apology from NK (I'd be interested to read this)
* SK will stop the propaganda stations aimed at the border
Here is the verbatim transcription of 6 point agreement:
첫째, 남과 북은 남북관계를 개선하기 위한 당국자 회담을 서울 또는 평양에서 빠른 시일내에 개최하며 앞으로 여러 분야의 대화와 협상을 진행해 나가기로 하였다.
First, South and North will hold further political engagements in Seoul and Pyongyang in the coming days to develop North-South relations. Talks and negotiations will be with respect to many areas.
둘째, 북측은 최근 군사분계선 비무장지대 남측지역에서 발생한 지뢰 폭발로 남측 군인들이 부상을 당한 것에 대하여 유감을 표명하였다.
Second, the North expresses regret (유감😉 for the injury of South-side soldiers by the recent landmine explosion in the South-side area of the DMZ.
셋째, 남측은 비정상적인 사태가 발생하지 않는 한, 군사분계선 일대의 모든 확성기 방송을 8월 25일 12시부터 중단하기로 하였다.
Third, the South-side, so long as an abnormal situation does not occur, will halt all loudspeaker broadcasts at the DMZ starting from August 25th, 12 o'clock.
넷째, 북측은 준전시상태를 해체하기로 하였다.
Fourthly, the North-side will dismantle its war-readiness-state.
다섯째, 남과 북은 올해 추석을 계기로 이산가족 상봉을 진행하고, 앞으로 계속 하기로 하였으며, 이를 위한 적십자실무접촉을 9월 초에 가지기로 하였다.
Fifth, the North and South in advance of (Korean Thanksgiving) will facilitate reunion of separated families going forward. Red Cross Contact will be established in early September for this purpose.
여섯째, 남과 북은 다양한 분야에서의 민간 교류를 활성화하기로 하였다.
Sixth, South and North will activate private exchanges regarding a variety of areas.
/thread
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/24/asia/koreas-tensions/
* SK gets an apology from NK (I'd be interested to read this)
* SK will stop the propaganda stations aimed at the border
Here is the verbatim transcription of 6 point agreement:
첫째, 남과 북은 남북관계를 개선하기 위한 당국자 회담을 서울 또는 평양에서 빠른 시일내에 개최하며 앞으로 여러 분야의 대화와 협상을 진행해 나가기로 하였다.
First, South and North will hold further political engagements in Seoul and Pyongyang in the coming days to develop North-South relations. Talks and negotiations will be with respect to many areas.
둘째, 북측은 최근 군사분계선 비무장지대 남측지역에서 발생한 지뢰 폭발로 남측 군인들이 부상을 당한 것에 대하여 유감을 표명하였다.
Second, the North expresses regret (유감😉 for the injury of South-side soldiers by the recent landmine explosion in the South-side area of the DMZ.
셋째, 남측은 비정상적인 사태가 발생하지 않는 한, 군사분계선 일대의 모든 확성기 방송을 8월 25일 12시부터 중단하기로 하였다.
Third, the South-side, so long as an abnormal situation does not occur, will halt all loudspeaker broadcasts at the DMZ starting from August 25th, 12 o'clock.
넷째, 북측은 준전시상태를 해체하기로 하였다.
Fourthly, the North-side will dismantle its war-readiness-state.
다섯째, 남과 북은 올해 추석을 계기로 이산가족 상봉을 진행하고, 앞으로 계속 하기로 하였으며, 이를 위한 적십자실무접촉을 9월 초에 가지기로 하였다.
Fifth, the North and South in advance of (Korean Thanksgiving) will facilitate reunion of separated families going forward. Red Cross Contact will be established in early September for this purpose.
여섯째, 남과 북은 다양한 분야에서의 민간 교류를 활성화하기로 하였다.
Sixth, South and North will activate private exchanges regarding a variety of areas.
/thread
Last edited:
Spungo
Diamond Member
We really need to put more funding into military research and less funding into military conquest. I think we all agree that internet is awesome, VPN is awesome, GPS is awesome. Being able to control the weather and cause record flooding in North Korea for a decade straight would be awesome.
lopri
Elite Member
And both the North and the South Korean governments make a huge deal out of it when they can help their political causes. Quite pathetic.
pcgeek11
Lifer
They don't have to be close by... They could be very far away and still lay waste to North Korea.
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