Are we at the point where a true DIY (motherboard upgradeable) notebook is possible?

[cbn]

Yes that will help, but lets hope no one follows Apple about having only a single port for everything.

Are you thinking of the Apple MacBook? (uses one usb-c for everything but headphones)

The MacBook Pro 13 and 15 come with two and four Thunderbolt III respectively plus headphone jack.

Here is a picture of a MacBook (with 1 x usb-c) on top of a MacBook Pro 13 (with 2 x Thunderbolt III):

Headphone jack is located on the other side of both laptops.

 

[whm1974]

Are you thinking of the Apple MacBook? (uses one usb-c for everything but headphones)

The MacBook Pro 13 and 15 come with two and four Thunderbolt III respectively plus headphone jack.

Yes.

 

[Yuriman]

How big of a display are you thinking about?

My personal opinion, 22" is the smallest I feel I could use. We have them at work and they're tiny; I've thought about buying my own screens to use there. ~24" is alright, 27" is ideal.

 

[Ravynmagi]

Ahhh... what a wonderful dream this once was. And it actually seemed like it might have happened once long ago.
Now I just shed tears of joy if my laptop lets me upgrade the RAM and SSD. 🙂

 

[cbn]

My personal opinion, 22" is the smallest I feel I could use. We have them at work and they're tiny; I've thought about buying my own screens to use there. ~24" is alright, 27" is ideal.

Here is laptop with a 21" Screen (21:9 aspect ratio 2560 x 1080, so think of it as a 17" 1080p that has been elongated):

I like how easy it is to upgrade components:

https://youtu.be/bnpoAIfUWIk?t=137

Here is a written review:

https://www.techradar.com/reviews/acer-predator-21-x-review

And here is the cooling:

(I'll bet this 21" 21:9 aspect ratio design could run a lot quieter than a conventional 17.3" 16:9 design due to the extra width allowing more and/or wider fans)

 

[cbn]

WhileYes, it is possible to design a notebook with standardized and replaceable parts. The hardest thing would be to convince Manufacturers to follow a common standard.

Open Source the design?

System 76 is planning to do this with future laptops.....

Our CAD work will be Open Source and our design will pay tribute to computer science.

• Easy to work on and expand

At every step along the way we ask, “How does this decision affect serviceability”. Open it, change it, expand it. Our product will be flexible.

• Efficient to manufacture

Robots and automation! Manufacturing efficiency will keep prices competitive. And like software development, our manufacturing will continuously integrate product design improvements into production.

We’re starting with desktops. There’s a lot to learn and the form factor is easiest to work with. Both design and CAD work are well along their way. We’re prototyping with acrylic and moving to metal soon. Our first in-house designed and manufactured desktops will ship next year. Laptops are more complex and will follow much later.

It’s going to take some years, but by the end of phase three, we’ll be able to create anything. We’ll apply our unique computers for creators perspective to every aspect of our products.

......but who knows maybe AMD and Intel might eventually have reason to help as well? (Depending on what future silicon they plan on releasing)

 

[cbn]

Rollcage like the Lenovo Thinkpad looks like a good idea:

https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkP...llcage-and-what-does-it-look-like/ta-p/413443

The rollcage is a ThinkPad design feature found principly in T series and some R series models starting with the T60 model. The rollcage is made of lightweight magnesium and offers a high strength to weight ratio - the bare rollcage shown below feels as light in the hand as perhaps an empty file folder.

Here is a rollcage from a 14" model shown on top of a 15" model T61p for visual comparison.

The purpose of the rollcage is to dramatically reduce system board flex that can weaken solder joints, especially on large chips (i.e. GPU, Southbridge, etc), and help protect many of the system's other internal components, while providing a rigid attachment point for system hinges, and outer plastic or composite covers.

Some models of ThinkPad also feature a magnesium rollcage in the lid assembly to help protect the LCD panel, and / or use outer shell / case components that are magnesium or composite.

When the systemboard and other components like fans, wifi cards, and outer case pieces are attached via screws to the rollcage, all of those screw locations create a type of tension that makes the entire assembly much stiffer, stronger, and more resiliant than any of the components by themselves.

 

[cbn]

Another idea:

Low profile mechanical switches.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Use-t...ches-specifically-for-notebooks.278056.0.html

 

[cbn]

Open Source the design?

System 76 is planning to do this with future laptops.....

Our CAD work will be Open Source and our design will pay tribute to computer science.

• Easy to work on and expand

At every step along the way we ask, “How does this decision affect serviceability”. Open it, change it, expand it. Our product will be flexible.

• Efficient to manufacture

Robots and automation! Manufacturing efficiency will keep prices competitive. And like software development, our manufacturing will continuously integrate product design improvements into production.

We’re starting with desktops. There’s a lot to learn and the form factor is easiest to work with. Both design and CAD work are well along their way. We’re prototyping with acrylic and moving to metal soon. Our first in-house designed and manufactured desktops will ship next year. Laptops are more complex and will follow much later.

It’s going to take some years, but by the end of phase three, we’ll be able to create anything. We’ll apply our unique computers for creators perspective to every aspect of our products.

......but who knows maybe AMD and Intel might eventually have reason to help as well? (Depending on what future silicon they plan on releasing)

Going beyond System 76 (which uses Pop!_OS), I noticed that their are linux distros that have their own laptops (though not open source at this time):

Examples:

1.) Mamjaro --> https://manjaro.org/hardware/ , https://stationx.rocks/collections/laptops/products/manjaro-special-edition-spitfire

The Manjaro Special Edition Spitfire is not just a mere pre-load of Manjaro software, put simply it is the ultimate marriage of hardware and software. The Manjaro guys have created a very special edition of their flagship XFCE distribution fully tuned to the Spitfire.

From intricate kernel tweaks, to streamlined settings, and even custom changes to battery, cpu, and sound settings - our Manjaro Special Edition Spitfire has now become the ULTIMATE Manjaro Machine.

2.) KDE Neon --> http://kde.slimbook.es/

EDIT: Purism (like System 76) is a hardware company that releases their own distro called PureOS.




==================================================================================

SIDE NOTE: I would also like to see open source laptops using a Linux distro with low power cpus and 16GB Optane* as an alternative to Chromebooks. This because having software tuning can make all the difference compared to the distro installed out of the box.

https://www.datamation.com/open-source/ubuntu-vs-chromeos-work-flows.html

Chromebooks have outstanding battery life. I've seen them running 8 to 10 hours without missing a beat. Obviously watching Netflix or the like can significantly reduce those numbers. But regardless, the batteries included with Chromebooks seem to blend well with ChromeOS itself.

Ubuntu (Unity edition) has horrible battery life on even the most bleeding edge, highest capacity batteries.Why power management isn't a priority out of the box always amazed me. Thankfully some Ubuntu spins like Ubuntu MATE offer decent power management out of the box. This is done with a tool called TLP. Using TLP, Ubuntu (or any distro) can detect when you're connected to power or running on your notebook's battery. This feature significantly increases your available battery life under Ubuntu. Going even deeper, you can also make additional changes (and save them) using PowerTOP.

The best choice is: If you're needing a simple web browser on a laptop with great battery life, ChromeOS wins on the Chromebook. Ubuntu with TLP installed is good, but the ChromeOS compatibility with the Chromebook is better. Whether or not you choose to paint this as a hardware vs software issue is up to you.

* (Optane) Works great IMO as a memory extender for internet browsing particularly when swappiness is set to 100.

Swappiness is a Linux kernel parameter that controls the relative weight given to swapping out of runtime memory, as opposed to dropping pages from the system page cache. Swappiness can be set to values between 0 and 100 inclusive. A low value causes the kernel to avoid swapping; a higher value causes the kernel to try to use swap space. The default value is 60; setting it higher will increase performance of "hot" processes at the cost of making a return to inactive "cold" ones take a long pause, while setting it lower (even 0) may decrease response latency. Systems with more than adequate RAM for any expected task may want to drastically lower the setting.

 

[cbn]

SIDE NOTE: I would also like to see open source laptops using a Linux distro with low power cpus and 16GB Optane* as an alternative to Chromebooks. This because having software tuning can make all the difference compared to the distro installed out of the box.

https://www.datamation.com/open-source/ubuntu-vs-chromeos-work-flows.html

Chromebooks have outstanding battery life. I've seen them running 8 to 10 hours without missing a beat. Obviously watching Netflix or the like can significantly reduce those numbers. But regardless, the batteries included with Chromebooks seem to blend well with ChromeOS itself.

Ubuntu (Unity edition) has horrible battery life on even the most bleeding edge, highest capacity batteries.Why power management isn't a priority out of the box always amazed me. Thankfully some Ubuntu spins like Ubuntu MATE offer decent power management out of the box. This is done with a tool called TLP. Using TLP, Ubuntu (or any distro) can detect when you're connected to power or running on your notebook's battery. This feature significantly increases your available battery life under Ubuntu. Going even deeper, you can also make additional changes (and save them) using PowerTOP.

The best choice is: If you're needing a simple web browser on a laptop with great battery life, ChromeOS wins on the Chromebook. Ubuntu with TLP installed is good, but the ChromeOS compatibility with the Chromebook is better. Whether or not you choose to paint this as a hardware vs software issue is up to you.

* (Optane) Works great IMO as a memory extender for internet browsing particularly when swappiness is set to 100.

Swappiness is a Linux kernel parameter that controls the relative weight given to swapping out of runtime memory, as opposed to dropping pages from the system page cache. Swappiness can be set to values between 0 and 100 inclusive. A low value causes the kernel to avoid swapping; a higher value causes the kernel to try to use swap space. The default value is 60; setting it higher will increase performance of "hot" processes at the cost of making a return to inactive "cold" ones take a long pause, while setting it lower (even 0) may decrease response latency. Systems with more than adequate RAM for any expected task may want to drastically lower the setting.

Perhaps with the Intel Compute card the lower power version of this idea is closer to reality than I thought?

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1298...ute-card-what-happened-to-intels-compute-card

P.S. That compute card reminds me of the EOMA68 project.

 

[whm1974]

At this point I would settle for a DIY barebones notebook.

 

[cbn]

At this point I would settle for a DIY barebones notebook.

I haven't looked into that category for a long time, but this one looks pretty interesting. (Takes 65W 7th Gen Intel socketed processors)

Interestingly enough I noticed the manufacturers website sells the same model (W650KK1) for $100 less---> http://www.eluktronics.com/Sale (free shipping available)

P.S. I am guessing the closest pre-built competition would be the Acer Nytro 5.

EDIT: Here is a video review of the laptop with G4560:

 

[whm1974]

Thanks @cbn are they any good and how well is Linux supported? I've been ooking at system76.com but this seems to be a better deal.

 

[cbn]

Thanks @cbn are they any good and how well is Linux supported? I've been ooking at system76.com but this seems to be a better deal.

The Newegg reviews and the Youtube reviews I found look pretty good though two complaints I saw were that the keyboard was not illuminated and the speakers were not good. With that mentioned I am wondering how easy the laptop is for complete disassembly (this video reviewer thinks it might be fairly easy) and how often BIOS is updated (Thinking of Spectre v2 primarily).

As far as Linux goes, I couldn't find any info under Eluktronics W650KK1 (FWIW it is a Clevo W650KK1).

 

[whm1974]

The Newegg reviews and the Youtube reviews I found look pretty good though two complaints I saw were that the keyboard was not illuminated and the speakers were not good. With that mentioned I am wondering how easy the laptop is for complete disassembly (this video reviewer thinks it might be fairly easy) and how often BIOS is updated (Thinking of Spectre v2 primarily).

As far as Linux goes, I couldn't find any info under Eluktronics W650KK1 (FWIW it is a Clevo W650KK1).

One thing I do have to ask, how is the battery life for a notebook with a 65W CPU? Particularly with the i5-7400? While having the performance is nice it would do me no good if the life isn't long enough to be useful.

 

[cbn]

One thing I do have to ask, how is the battery life for a notebook with a 65W CPU? Particularly with the i5-7400? While having the performance is nice it would do me no good if the life isn't long enough to be useful.

Not sure about the I5-7400, but the video review I linked (G4560 with GTX 1050 Ti) mentioned 4 hours browsing or 1 hour gaming.

That could work for me, but it would be nice to see an extended capacity battery available too.

P.S. Would be interesting if there was also a socketed AMD version perhaps with just the APU? (Eg, R3 2200G or R5 2400G)

 

[whm1974]

I doubt that will work for me as I'm planing on going back to school this fall.

 

[cbn]

I doubt that will work for me as I'm planing on going back to school this fall.

Yeah, that battery life is not so great but it do better than the Acer Nitro 5 mentioned in post #37 which only got 3 hours 18 minutes during a browsing test according to this review.

P.S. For general office work focused on long battery life with lightweight I would probably want something with Amber Lake and reserve a laptop with a GTX 1050 Ti for the heavier tasks.

 

[richaron]

While I personally kinda get the appeal of a DIY notebook, rationally it doesn't make sense to me. Partially since a mid-range desktop (even a pre-built) will have roughly the same computational power as a high end notebook plus the desktop would be way more customizable and cheaper. And a dedicated, completely integrated, portable device is likely more compact and convenient for travel.

In fact I suspect you can get both a mid-range desktop and a "good enough" portable for the same price as a high end notebook (or a DIY notebook with high end components). Which to me is a no brainer and I'd choose the two systems, but I guess others might opt otherwise..

I doubt that will work for me as I'm planing on going back to school this fall.

Following on from above I would look at something specifically portable for school, with school specific features such as a proper stylus for note taking. For example I'm looking at the HP Chromebook x2 for my next semester. A device designed ground-up to be integrated and portable and have features like the stylus suited to a portable device. It's probably cheaper than most mid-high end notebooks and plenty fast enough for it's duties (plus chromeOS runs Linux apps now).

Then you can get a low-mid end desktop as well if necessary. This can fill in your DIY and performance needs.

Even if the above isn't suitable, my argument still remains. Even with a budget of ~$700 for example I'd argue you can get the best of both worlds with a ~$200 Chromebook and ~$500 desktop. Since a ~$700 notebook is likely less portable than the Chromebook and/or lower performance (and less customizable) than the desktop.

 

[whm1974]

I already have a nice desktop, and also a refurbished Thinkpad T430 that I brought last year for $170.

 

[cbn]

Perhaps with the Intel Compute card the lower power version of this idea is closer to reality than I thought?

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1298...ute-card-what-happened-to-intels-compute-card

P.S. That compute card reminds me of the EOMA68 project.

Lapdock for the compute card on the way:

http://nexdock.com/

 

[whm1974]

And what are the specs for the Intel Compute Card? I kind of doubt that something of that size will have much in the way of performance, memory, and storage.

 

[cbn]

For a higher power version I wonder if a lapdock could be made that would essentially be a Thunderbolt IIII dock (LCD display, battery, keyboard, Ethernet, display outputs, audio input/output, etc)*? Then a motherboard (with fan) could simply plug in via a Thunderbolt III port?

*There could even be a version with MXM GPU for CPUs that don't have iGPUs.

 

[whm1974]

For a higher power version I wonder if a lapdock could be made that would essentially be a Thunderbolt IIII dock (LCD display, battery, keyboard, Ethernet, display outputs, audio input/output, etc)*? Then a motherboard (with fan) could simply plug in via a Thunderbolt III port?

*There could even be a version with MXM GPU for CPUs that don't have iGPUs.

Given the size of the card there will be strict limits on what you could have on the card.

 

[cbn]

Given the size of the card there will be strict limits on what you could have on the card.

Yes, a compute card (specs here) is going to limit processors to ~6W.

For something more powerful (say 65W processor) that connects to Thunderbolt III lapdock (or Thunderbolt III deskdock) the form factor would have to be much larger.

With this noted, I do wonder if the device should have a fan built in? Or does the Thunderbolt III dock have the fan? (Probably the dock having the fan would be simpler)