Question are video card prices headed down yet?

[igor_kavinski]

Maybe a lot of them have so much money that they can afford to keep the cards and even eat a loss. Not everyone is profit driven. Some do it for fun or hobby, even when they have other good sources of income. I knew a Calculus teacher who made a comfortable living from his poultry farm. But Calculus was his passion. He loved teaching.

I think the law of attraction favors those more who don't really care about money (explains why I don't have too much ) .

 

[IntelUser2000]

@igor_kavinski There's a difference between filthy rich and comfortable though. The latter can be achievable by many. The former is either done by greed and stepping over others or luck/right place at the right time.

Remember most people are inexperienced or are in for the fad. Most will lose. They'll be the ones that'll find the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity yet buy high and sell low. Those that stick through the pain will have the opportunity in the future to make money.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Maybe a lot of them have so much money that they can afford to keep the cards and even eat a loss. Not everyone is profit driven. Some do it for fun or hobby, even when they have other good sources of income. I knew a Calculus teacher who made a comfortable living from his poultry farm. But Calculus was his passion. He loved teaching.

Indeed. I still "work" although I'm comfortable enough. Now, I can selectively choose what I do however. If I want to spend a week mowing lawns in the area, no problem. If I get called on some kind of IT consultancy for a week, no problem. Being your own boss kind of has it's perks. Of course, that guy is a hard taskmaster.

...and do read Good Omens. There is a good joke about poultry farmers in there if I remember right.

Remember most people are inexperienced or are in for the fad. Most will lose. They'll be the ones that'll find the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity yet buy high and sell low. Those that stick through the pain will have the opportunity in the future to make money.

Sad but true. Getting wealthy is hard work*, and prioritising. No shortcuts there.

*Or should I say smart work? Just working hard doesn't really get you anywhere.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Maybe a lot of them have so much money that they can afford to keep the cards and even eat a loss. Not everyone is profit driven. Some do it for fun or hobby, even when they have other good sources of income.

It may be that a lot of those cards are no longer suitable for display duty. Imagine testing all of those things to see what you can sell as used and what has to be sold as "parts only"? Yeah you can try to cheat people if you're a fly-by-nighter selling a few cards "as is" but if you're trying to move them in bulk, that's a herculean task that will catch up with you if you do it wrong. It's going to take some determined and efficient salvagers to go through all those cards to organize them for sale.

My Hawaii cards were in varying states of weird when I shut down my Ethereum mining for good years ago. I think most, if not all of them, were used when I got them. I gave them away for free since I could not be arsed to put them all through the paces, and the Ethereum made enough money that eating the initial expense was acceptable.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

My Hawaii cards were in varying states of weird when I shut down my Ethereum mining for good years ago. I think most, if not all of them, were used when I got them. I gave them away for free since I could not be arsed to put them all through the paces, and the Ethereum made enough money that eating the initial expense was acceptable.

I mined a bit of bitcoin (pun somewhat intended) back when that was still possible on an average GPU. Just for the novelty value. I had forgotten about that wallet until bitcoin prices began to draw headlines the first time 'round. Managed to sell at about the first top. But I still did pretty well out of that little "accident". So did the taxman.

 

[Aapje]

Nvidia is also paying a premium to get back as a customer for TSMC this time around after dropping them for Samsung for the last consumer generation, and probably learning their lesson that the grass is not always greener with the manufacturing difficulties that Samsung had for producing the chips in volume. Where-as AMD is simply continuing its already existing business relationship with TSMC and probably has a much better deal for remaining a loyal customer (especially since they make no only the GPUs but AMD's CPUs as well).

Nvidia gained a little market volume over AMD during the mining boom, so Samsung seemed to be able to produce volume just fine.

The choice to put the GA102 in the 3080 and sell it relatively cheaply was probably due to the high error rate, requiring them to sell a lot of broken GA102 chips for every good one. However, due to the mining boom, Nvidia made out like a bandit, being able to sell all those broken GA102 chips for 3090 prices.

Nvidia's real mistake is not investing enough in chiplets, but if they had stuck with TSMC they probably would still have a considerably more expensive monolithic chip. They would just pay a little less per wafer for Ada, but almost certainly not enough to make up for the cheaper Samsung wafer costs for Ampere.

 

[igor_kavinski]

So did the taxman.

I hear it is upwards of 40% of income for you?

 

[Insert_Nickname]

I hear it is upwards of 40% of income for you?

Yes, and no. Standard capital gains tax is 27% for the first 57.200DKK*. Rest is taxed at 42%. Regular income tax varies a bit ("kommuneskat") depending on which municipality ("kommune") you live in, but is generally around 38-39% for regular workers. This may sound like a lot, which it is, but there are plenty of things we pay via tax which you, or your employer, does in other countries. It's really quite complex, so the tax rate by itself isn't really that meaningful.

*This year. It is regulated yearly. Also it's per person. So double if you happen to have a spouse.

As for how much I made... well, I'm kind of sitting in it, so to speak...

Edit; Back in '18 I was like "if they cross a 100.000DKK each, I'm cashing in". Turned out to be a mistake of sorts. Could have gotten 3x that last year. But I wouldn't have gotten the level of enjoyment out of them, so I'm fine with that. Money is no good collecting dust in an account after all.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Also it's per person. So double if you happen to have a spouse.

Sounds like population control in disguise

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Sounds like population control in disguise

It's no different from being able to use your spouses "bundfradrag" if you're married. It's a tax free part of your income. This year it's 46.600 per person. So if your spouse doesn't work, you'd get 93.200 tax free.

 

[jpiniero]

Newegg has a 6600 for $239 plus a $10 promo code.

 

[bullzz]

Intel says A770 will be available Oct 12 starting $329

 

[ZGR]

I was able to drive a couple hours to snag an MSI Ventus 3080 for $430. Heavily used, probably was mined on, and no box or cables.

Installing it was not fun. I had to remove a large metal bracket off my Corsair 4000D since the 3080 is too long. Then the plastic shroud for the RGB lighting on the MSI Tomahawk is just a bit too tall, making the 3080 not able to be fully seated. One tiny movement, and the PC will fail to boot showing the CPU led light. I think I am going to have my case laying on its side so gravity will help keep the 3080 seated.

But ohhh boy is this card fast and quiet. Seeing over 2x performance gain over the 1080 Ti and finally making the 5800X3D able to stretch its legs. Gonna be fun to start undervolting this.

 

[fleshconsumed]

I was able to drive a couple hours to snag an MSI Ventus 3080 for $430. Heavily used, probably was mined on, and no box or cables.

Installing it was not fun. I had to remove a large metal bracket off my Corsair 4000D since the 3080 is too long. Then the plastic shroud for the RGB lighting on the MSI Tomahawk is just a bit too tall, making the 3080 not able to be fully seated. One tiny movement, and the PC will fail to boot showing the CPU led light. I think I am going to have my case laying on its side so gravity will help keep the 3080 seated.

But ohhh boy is this card fast and quiet. Seeing over 2x performance gain over the 1080 Ti and finally making the 5800X3D able to stretch its legs. Gonna be fun to start undervolting this.

Good price. However, it would to get lower than that for me. In less than 6 months N33 is going to offer same performance for the same price, except I'll get newer card that's not been mined on, it'll have half the power consumption, and it'll be even quieter. I think used prices are still too high. I made a few offers to local sellers, but they're still in la-la land. I'm not hurting for a new card so given the current used market I'll keep waiting.

 

[Stuka87]

Good price. However, it would to get lower than that for me. In less than 6 months N33 is going to offer same performance for the same price, except I'll get newer card that's not been mined on, it'll have half the power consumption, and it'll be even quieter. I think used prices are still too high. I made a few offers to local sellers, but they're still in la-la land. I'm not hurting for a new card so given the current used market I'll keep waiting.

We don't know what AMD pricing is going to be. We expect it to be less than nVidia, but not sure it will be that much less.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Of course it won't initially be that much less than Nvidia's pricing assuming AMD's cards perform at about the same as Nvidia's (if AMD takes the performance crown, well, you better believe they will also probably charge for it too even if they do have higher margins on the cards due to the chiplet design's cost cutting features, but I suspect they will need to be 10-15% faster in order to compensate for ray tracing and lack of CUDA which is the defacto standard for GPU programming). The job of the company is to extract as much value from the market as possible. That means finding the sweet spot of where you make as many items as you can and you still sell them all with the highest margin you can extract from the market. The initial highest price they can take will be somewhat determined by the competition in the market and how well AMD's cards perform against the competition (your standard microeconomics 101 stuff).

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Alright folks. Woke up and put a "best offer" in on a $499 3080 10g MSI 3x Ventus card of $350 and I guess the seller spooked and accepted. No indication that the card is busted, solid seller too.

Guess the next gen announce spooked some people or sellers are getting tired of sitting on inventory.

Didn't expect to get a 3080 for $350 today ($380 shipping and taxes all in).

Would be the first time since I went from an MX200 to a 4600ti that I've gone with the same chipmaket two upgrades in a row, and roughly a 3x performance increase for $380 is nothing to sneeze at.

I'll keep you guys up to date if this ends up being a dud or seller backs out.

Edit: Ok, seller updated shipping information and its on its way out.

-Ok, update: the card arrived and it works... Sorta.

I'm starting to understand the frustration people went though with compatibility issues and the like.

The Ventus 3080 3x OC works. Plugged into my sig rig (still waiting on my new b550 motherboard).

I put it through any number of times spy extreme stress tests and it passes them with flying colors. No visual glitches. No nothing.

Then it freaks out and crashes.

It actually never crashes on any 3d tests. It crashes when I'm idling on my desktop.

I made sure to run a second PCI-E cable to the card (Seasonic GX-1000w PSu, A-tier PSU and no OCP issues), and things seemed perkier and less crashy. Until it crashed while idling (surfing and such) again.

Started looking and holy sweet baby Jesus the RTX series has crashing issues not only due to current spikes but also due to idle power (cards will "0" out while idling and the system will think the device dropped off the bus).

God damn. So now I'm rooting around ensuring that the card is set to maximum performance everywhere, that PCI-e Link state management is off in Windows and BIOS, etc etc etc. Seems to work for some people.

Of all the issues I didn't expect to have, a card absolutely *crushing* heavy duty graphics workloads only to crash when I'm on my desktop is not one I expected to have.

Eagerly awaiting the B550 board to see if plugging the card into something newer than this z170 and with PCI-E 4.0 will get everything playing nicely together. Plenty of folks have reported simply moving off their aging platforms to something more modern resolves virtually all of their issues.

 

[ZGR]

So now I'm rooting around ensuring that the card is set to maximum performance everywhere, that PCI-e Link state management is off in Windows and BIOS, etc etc etc. Seems to work for some people.

You can try downloading Nvidia Inspector to force the GPU to never enter idle PState:

NVIDIA Inspector Download version 1.9.8.7

Download NVIDIA Inspector, the ultimate tool for detailed GeForce graphics card insights. Also known as nvidiaProfileInspector, this application provides comprehensive driver and hardware information, allowing you to fine-tune your system for optimal performance.

www.guru3d.com

I used this for my 1080 Ti and now for the Ventus 3080 which is the same model you have. So basically you can create 2 batch files, one for 3d, and one for 2d, but the 2d profile is tricking the card into 3d mode.

SET VOLT=680000
SET GPU0=-lockVoltagePoint:0,%VOLT% -setBaseClockOffset:0,0,-200 -setMemoryClockOffset:0,0,-500 -forcePState:0,8 -setPowerTarget:0,52 -setTempTarget:0,0,76
nvidiaInspector.exe %GPU0%

The above .bat file locks a 1080 Ti or 3080 to below 1 ghz, voltage is locked to 0.7 V, and P-State is locked.
You can use Task Scheduler to run this each time you log in. This might fix your crash issue on your Z170. Launching a game in this state will cause memory to boost up to 9000 MHz, but core remains below 1 GHz:





The below .bat file locks the 3080 to 1.7 GHz at 0.8 V, so it should draw about 100W less at max load:

SET VOLT=793000
SET GPU0=-lockVoltagePoint:0,%VOLT% -setBaseClockOffset:0,0,190 -setMemoryClockOffset:0,0,-250 -forcePState:0,0 -setPowerTarget:0,72 -setTempTarget:0,0,80
nvidiaInspector.exe %GPU0%

Quite fun to play around with. You might be surprised at the kind of performance you can hit at lowered voltage. If you want to revert to default behavior, click on the reset key in MSI Afterburner.

 

[fleshconsumed]

We don't know what AMD pricing is going to be. We expect it to be less than nVidia, but not sure it will be that much less.

No we don't. 6600xt has $379 MSRP which IMO is high for that level of a card, but that MSRP was also set during the height of a mining craze. If 7600XT MSRP stays the same it's a better deal than $400+ mined upon 3080 so long as you're willing to wait. Personally I'm waiting to see what N31/N32 performance/pricing looks like on November 4th, that should give a good clue what N33 will look like. Exciting times now that mining craze is over.

 

[jpiniero]

No we don't. 6600xt has $379 MSRP which IMO is high for that level of a card

Which is why N33 will be branded 7700 and 7700 XT.

Also AMD marketed the 6600 XT as being faster than the $329 3060 in raster but also admitted it was slower than the $399 3060 Ti. Hence the $379 "MSRP'.

 

[Stuka87]

Started looking and holy sweet baby Jesus the RTX series has crashing issues not only due to current spikes but also due to idle power (cards will "0" out while idling and the system will think the device dropped off the bus).

Hah, guess they didn't learn from AMD's mistake. AMD had that black screen of death issue like 10 years ago. Where if the machine put the display to sleep, the card would go into zero state and not wake up because the driver could not reach it. Trick was to just disable display sleep. But they did fix it, and wasn't an issue anymore.

30 series has been out for years now, kind of annoying thats not fixed yet.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

You can try downloading Nvidia Inspector to force the GPU to never enter idle PState:

NVIDIA Inspector Download version 1.9.8.7

Download NVIDIA Inspector, the ultimate tool for detailed GeForce graphics card insights. Also known as nvidiaProfileInspector, this application provides comprehensive driver and hardware information, allowing you to fine-tune your system for optimal performance.

www.guru3d.com

I used this for my 1080 Ti and now for the Ventus 3080 which is the same model you have. So basically you can create 2 batch files, one for 3d, and one for 2d, but the 2d profile is tricking the card into 3d mode.

SET VOLT=680000
SET GPU0=-lockVoltagePoint:0,%VOLT% -setBaseClockOffset:0,0,-200 -setMemoryClockOffset:0,0,-500 -forcePState:0,8 -setPowerTarget:0,52 -setTempTarget:0,0,76
nvidiaInspector.exe %GPU0%

The above .bat file locks a 1080 Ti or 3080 to below 1 ghz, voltage is locked to 0.7 V, and P-State is locked.
You can use Task Scheduler to run this each time you log in. This might fix your crash issue on your Z170. Launching a game in this state will cause memory to boost up to 9000 MHz, but core remains below 1 GHz:

View attachment 68334



The below .bat file locks the 3080 to 1.7 GHz at 0.8 V, so it should draw about 100W less at max load:

SET VOLT=793000
SET GPU0=-lockVoltagePoint:0,%VOLT% -setBaseClockOffset:0,0,190 -setMemoryClockOffset:0,0,-250 -forcePState:0,0 -setPowerTarget:0,72 -setTempTarget:0,0,80
nvidiaInspector.exe %GPU0%

Quite fun to play around with. You might be surprised at the kind of performance you can hit at lowered voltage. If you want to revert to default behavior, click on the reset key in MSI Afterburner.

-I managed to get the card to a place of relative stability (latest mobo BIOS, turning off RC6 render standby in BIOS, locking board to PCI-E 3.0 instead of auto, disabling Link state power management in windows, DDU the NV drivers, activate Hardware Acceleration in Windows), but if I keep encountering these issues on my fresh build (which will have a clean windows install) then I'll look into your solution as well along with *puts on Karen haircut* demanding a refund!

However, I'd much prefer the card just remain stable.

 

[jpiniero]

Just curious, what is the manufacture date of the card?

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Hah, guess they didn't learn from AMD's mistake. AMD had that black screen of death issue like 10 years ago. Where if the machine put the display to sleep, the card would go into zero state and not wake up because the driver could not reach it. Trick was to just disable display sleep. But they did fix it, and wasn't an issue anymore.

30 series has been out for years now, kind of annoying thats not fixed yet.

-Its wild how you find these things when you go looking for them. There have been a lot of forum posts in various places over the last two years about this issue, people playing COD for 10 hours straight only to BSOD once they hit the desktop, or just have the computer blip out and restart on its own, it's a little startling.

I guess people were willing to put up with a lot if they got a GPU during the shortage.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Not profitable! SonOfATech has to shut down the farm soon.