Are there any statistics that show higher education doesn?t necessarily mean higher income?

[Aluvus]

Originally posted by: spidey07

I say again!

Yes, you keep saying pretty much the same thing over and over. That unfortunately doesn't make it true.

Engineers are the grunts.

You seem really fixated on this concept. And again, it says a lot more about the companies you've worked for than it does for all engineering everywhere. Some companies treat their engineers like Dilbert, some don't. This varies quite a bit from company to company, industry to industry, etc.

All those guys studying business and engineering management that you made fun of while in school? Yeah, they're gonna be making twice as much as you are by their late 20s. Good luck.

Most people that study business specifically end up needing an MBA to really capitalize on it. A pretty decent portion of engineers also end up getting MBAs. And some engineers also study engineering management, being as it fits in rather nicely.

You seem to think there is some impenetrable wall between engineering and all other disciplines, which is really not true. But you're apparently the expert on the "real world", based on your vast (but unclear) experience that has somehow left you both ignorant and bitter about young engineers.

I don't know if an engineer ran over your dog or what, but you should really take some time to re-evaluate some of your assumptions.

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: Pale Rider

Originally posted by: BrownTown

Originally posted by: Pale Rider

Originally posted by: BrownTown
As for spacejamz's list, that is interesting to some degree, but on the flipside a 22 year old engineering graduate is making as much their first year out of college as the average (which would be like a 30 year old maybe?) person in all those professions except the top one, so really that proves the point that education is a HUGE influence since even the best non-degree jobs get beaten by a regular dude with a degree.

Pipe dream.

Most engineers don't jump into 60k year jobs right out of school. Whoever told you that isn't living in the real world.

I did and my GPA is less than 3.0 at an engineering school not even in the top 30...

My brother goes to MIT, their median starting salary is more like $75,000

There are exceptions to everything. Your average engineer of most any field does not jump into a high paying job immediately (meaning their very first job) out of school. That's just the way it is.

Count one more against you. Both offers of mine were ~$60k, give or take ~$3k. This is average, I have all sorts of friend around. That's in Texas. Cali gets you more, Oil company gets you A LOT more (plus 80 hour work weeks).

Originally posted by: spidey07
LOL at the google quoting.

Good luck guys. That's all I can say. You'll figure it out soon enough.

lol you kill me man with that old mindset. 2 things.

1. TONS of companies are adding technical tracks where highly technical engineers can stay with their strengths and not have to move into management to make money.

2. I am an engineer. I just started an engineering job monday. I will not be doing basic engineering for more than 5 years. I will either be in management or sales.

FYI, there are very few low-mid managers in my company without an engineering degree.

 

[Reckoner]

Considering most people go OUTSIDE the field relative to their degree, I don't know why so many people say you need X degree/major in order to make a decent living. Most employers just want you to get the degree.

 

[aplefka]

Where'd the OP disappear to?

 

[her209]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: her209
Bill Gates
Michael Dell

This post is a fine example of someone that didn't have an higher education enough to read the question and/or understand that showing how someone without higher education and a higher income does not prove that with a higher education you wouldn't get a higher income.

Conversely, showing someone with a higher education and a higher income does not disprove that someone without a higher education will not have a higher income. Similarly, I could ask how two people with the same degree from the same school with the same GPA can have different salaries.

 

[lyssword]

Bill Gates - 1 year of Harvard math
Micheal Dell - attended University of Texas when he began his business

 

[beer]

It's hard for me to believe that ya'll are given Spidey so much flak - AND I AM AN ENGINEER!

Even when I was in undergrad I wasn't under the delusion that EE/CS was the end-all of majors. You all don't _really_ think that $100k is a lot of money, do you?

*shrug* oh well, stay out of MBA school then.

 

[BrownTown]

Originally posted by: spidey07
I say again!

Engineers are the grunts. You are fresh out. You're nice little world of how things should be just isn't reality. It's gonna hit you like a brick, you'll be all crosseyed of how you believed things should be. All those guys studying business and engineering management that you made fun of while in school? Yeah, they're gonna be making twice as much as you are by their late 20s. Good luck.

Ignorance is bliss so they say. You guys are in for a real awakening when you get out of school.

I know, I know...it's cool to think about and look at starting salaries and it is enticing for engineers. It's fun to think about how bright that future may be when 70K seems like a lot of money. But face it, you are the worker bees and you always will be. You are no different in importance than the guy that grades my land. Welcome to the machine.

Engineers do the work, others tell them what to work on. All those business and communication classes you laughed at? It's gonna hit you like a brick.

The sad thing is apparently how long it took YOU to realize this, not the other way around, I always knew in high school that most of my classmates who worked less were gonna end up making alot more money than I was. EVERYONE knows that engineering is not the job you get if you want to be rich, but it is a very good and stable job, and if you like doing engineering work than why the heck wouldn't you do what you love? Where I go to college the MEDIAN salary of the parents is $250,000, and obviously this is more than my dad ever made as an engineer (making ~$100,000), but thats the work he loves doing, so why should you assume he is an idiot for doign it instead of going into business? So, yeah, I understand perfectly that being good at solving engineering problems likely will never make you more than say $150,000 (at most), but at the same time, its good enough for me, $60,000 might not be that much for the ATOT millionaires, but its enough to buy everything that makes me happy, so why should I bother doign a job I hate when all it will get more is more money I don't really need?

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Pale Rider

Originally posted by: BrownTown
As for spacejamz's list, that is interesting to some degree, but on the flipside a 22 year old engineering graduate is making as much their first year out of college as the average (which would be like a 30 year old maybe?) person in all those professions except the top one, so really that proves the point that education is a HUGE influence since even the best non-degree jobs get beaten by a regular dude with a degree.

Pipe dream.

Most engineers don't jump into 60k year jobs right out of school. Whoever told you that isn't living in the real world.

Actually they do, but they hit a ceiling and are unable to move up because they are just engineers. They don't know how to do anything else. You gotta keep the supply of grunts up, so you give the grunts a "OMG! 60K!!! I'm RICH!" incentive.

Meanwhile the guy working on the line is making more and telling the grunt what is wrong with his stuff.

IMO, engineering is too broad of a field to simplify like that.

In my field (and most likely all high-tech fields), management within engineering companies are engineers. Engineers are engineers. Managers are engineers. Directors are engineers. VPs are engineers. Etc. Engineers tell other engineers what to do. It is impossible for a non-technical person to manage an engineer in a meaningful way.

The marketing and business operations in an engineering company, especially a high tech company, are engineers. The people that are not engineers are people such as human resources, IT, operators, etc.

It is important to note that a person without an engineering degree can become an engineer. Perhaps you're confused about that.

Personally, I think that engineering is a great degree if you only intend to pursue an undergraduate degree. You get an OK income, good career potential, plentiful jobs, etc. The glass ceiling is very high in many fields. Engineers can also easily move into management (I think that many non-engineers don't understand what management means in engineering), marketing, business ops, etc.

However, an engineering graduate degree is not as lucrative.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: spacejamz
20 great jobs that don't require a degree

<big long list o' jobs>

And two years out of college I was making enough money to be at #5 on this list. My next move will likely put me at #2.

To the OP: Of course higher education does not necessarily mean higher income. Nothing will ever be true in every single instance. However, there is a very strong correlation between higher education and higher earnings.

To the people bringing up examples like Bill Gates, remember that Bill Gates went to the best private schools (his high school had access to a friggin' mainframe computer in the 1970's for cryin' out loud) and was attending Harvard before he dropped out to found Microsoft. This is not a legitimate example of an "uneducated" person making a lot of money.

ZV

 

[beer]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Pale Rider

Originally posted by: BrownTown
As for spacejamz's list, that is interesting to some degree, but on the flipside a 22 year old engineering graduate is making as much their first year out of college as the average (which would be like a 30 year old maybe?) person in all those professions except the top one, so really that proves the point that education is a HUGE influence since even the best non-degree jobs get beaten by a regular dude with a degree.

Pipe dream.

Most engineers don't jump into 60k year jobs right out of school. Whoever told you that isn't living in the real world.

Actually they do, but they hit a ceiling and are unable to move up because they are just engineers. They don't know how to do anything else. You gotta keep the supply of grunts up, so you give the grunts a "OMG! 60K!!! I'm RICH!" incentive.

Meanwhile the guy working on the line is making more and telling the grunt what is wrong with his stuff.

IMO, engineering is too broad of a field to simplify like that.

In my field (and most likely all high-tech fields), management within engineering companies are engineers. Engineers are engineers. Managers are engineers. Directors are engineers. VPs are engineers. Etc. Engineers tell other engineers what to do. It is impossible for a non-technical person to manage an engineer in a meaningful way.

The marketing and business operations in an engineering company, especially a high tech company, are engineers. The people that are not engineers are people such as human resources, IT, operators, etc.

It is important to note that a person without an engineering degree can become an engineer. Perhaps you're confused about that.

Personally, I think that engineering is a great degree if you only intend to pursue an undergraduate degree. You get an OK income, good career potential, plentiful jobs, etc. The glass ceiling is very high in many fields. Engineers can also easily move into management, marketing, business ops, etc.

However, an engineering graduate degree is not as lucrative.

I don't think I've seen a post on ATOT, in the 7.5 years that I've been here, that I agreed with more than this. This is exactly how I view an engineering degree, and this is exactly how my company functions in both the sales side (when I support engineering development as a dedicated FAE to this one customer) and on the engineering development side (I am in development now) in silicon valley.

Listen to what this man says and take it as gospel.

 

[novasatori]

# Commercial pilot

Annual income: $53,870

After you spend $30k on certs, sure you might start at $20k.

Hardly something you can do with just a high school diploma or GED.

 

[Special K]

Meh, a few random comments before bed:

1. There's no law that says you must work in the same field your entire life. If you majored in engineering and decided it's not your thing for whatever reason, then go back to school so you can become one of these so-called "rich people" that are mentioned in this thread.

2. Who are you to tell someone else how much money *they* need to make to be happy? Maybe they are fine with making $100k. Who are you to tell them they aren't? Happiness is a state of mind.

3. I don't think a business degree is an automatic one-way ticket to instant riches and fame, as seems to be implied in this thread.

4. Let's say you are just starting college, and decide to major in economics/finance/etc. because you want to be an IBanker and make lots of money. You have absolutely no interest in the field, you just want money. Let's also assume that you manage to get an IBanking job after graduation, and you find the work very boring, unfulfilling, etc. Is the thought of money alone going to be enough to keep you going through those 80+ hour work weeks? It's a rhetorical question, but my point is that I suspect the ones who excel the most in any field have at least some interest and/or passion for what they do. If you have absolutely no desire to be in your field other than money, I question how high you will be able to go. Maybe some of you have jobs you loathe, but have managed to do quite well in just because the thought of money keeps you going. I just wonder how many people could truly excel in a field they hate.

5. This has been mentioned before, but where I work (and at other high-tech companies), almost everyone is an engineer. The project managers are engineers. The VPs are engineers. Heck, even the CEO is an engineer (although once you get that high up, most also have MBAs). There are also two ladders - technical and management. The pay scales the same all the way up to the VP level. If you want to continue working as a designer, there aren't any set barriers that will stop you.

Flame away.....

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: beer
So rather than agree with the statistics that are widely available and accepted and statistically sound, you're going to find some corner case that tries to agree with you even though every legitimate study says otherwise?

I wasen't try to. I believe the statistics to be correct and represent what actually happens it's just that I get into arguments with (stuipid) people about how going to college dosen't matter.

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: her209
Bill Gates
Michael Dell

They represent a extreamly small portion of the population. That list is actually much long and can maybe span pages. However they are the few..... I think people are skewed by using these people as examples.

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: 43st
Higher greed means higher income.. Education is just an enabler.

That statement makes absolutley no sense.

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: spacejamz
20 great jobs that don't require a degree

# Air traffic controller

Annual income: $102,030

# Storage and distribution manager

Annual income: $66,600

# Transportation manager

Annual income: $66,600

# Police and detectives supervisor

Annual income: $64,430

# Non-retail sales manager

Annual income: $59,300

# Forest fire fighting and prevention supervisor

Annual income: $58,920

# Municipal fire fighting and prevention supervisor

Annual income: $58,902

# Real estate broker

Annual income: $58,720

# Elevator installers and repairer

Annual income: $58,710

# Sales representative

Annual income: $58,580

# Dental hygienist

Annual income: $58,350

# Radiation therapist

Annual income: $57,700

# Nuclear medicine technologist

Annual income: $56,450

# Child support, missing persons and unemployment insurance fraud investigator

Annual income: $53,900

# Criminal investigators and special agent

Annual income: $53,990

# Immigration and Customs inspector

Annual income: $53,990

# Police detective

Annual Income: $53,990

# Police identification and records officer

Annual income: $53,990

# Commercial pilot

Annual income: $53,870

# Talent director

Annual income: $52,840

The income of those positions are not all that high anyway. I think if you look at the (amount of shit you have to do) to (pay) ratio you will find it quite high. Also there is a high risk and stress (police detective, Air traffic controller). I make somewhere in between those incomes right now with my B.S. in comp sci and I don't do nearly as much as I imagine some of those positions would end up doing.

 

[Xavier434]

Statistics simply show an average. The bottom line is that certain fields of work pay more money than others, but you will never really have a ton of money unless you either go into business yourself or invest properly or both.

The exception is with certain government jobs where you can actually apply for a higher salary by showing proof that you have an education higher than the requirements. For example, I work for the school district as a programmer and I could have added something like 6k to my starting salary if I had a Master's degree. As long as I had that proof, I would have been guaranteed the increase.

Also, there are commerical jobs out there which will not accept anything below a masters. If you really want good information, try doing some job searches for about a month and see how much they are offering people with bachelor's degrees as opposed to master's degrees.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: alkemyst

Originally posted by: her209
Bill Gates
Michael Dell

This post is a fine example of someone that didn't have an higher education enough to read the question and/or understand that showing how someone without higher education and a higher income does not prove that with a higher education you wouldn't get a higher income.

<<<head is throbbing.

 

[steppinthrax]

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Statistics simply show an average. The bottom line is that certain fields of work pay more money than others, but you will never really have a ton of money unless you either go into business yourself or invest properly or both.

The exception is with certain government jobs where you can actually apply for a higher salary by showing proof that you have an education higher than the requirements. For example, I work for the school district as a programmer and I could have added something like 6k to my starting salary if I had a Master's degree. As long as I had that proof, I would have been guaranteed the increase.

Also, there are commerical jobs out there which will not accept anything below a masters. If you really want good information, try doing some job searches for about a month and see how much they are offering people with bachelor's degrees as opposed to master's degrees.

I think in my field of Comp Sci a B.S. is all that's really required. I'm working on my Masters in IT just for the Masters. But I rarely see a job posting requring a masters. But the avearge pay for a B.S. with no exp is around the upper 30s and with exp I would say around 45 -60. Over time you can be pulling down 70 to 80 with experience.

 

[xeemzor]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Aluvus

Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Pipe dream.

Most engineers don't jump into 60k year jobs right out of school. Whoever told you that isn't living in the real world.

Most of the people I graduated with last May (all of whom are engineers of various stripes) got jobs around the $50-60k range, in locations ranging from from Dallas, TX, to a small town in Illinois.

Originally posted by: spidey07
Actually they do, but they hit a ceiling and are unable to move up because they are just engineers. They don't know how to do anything else. You gotta keep the supply of grunts up, so you give the grunts a "OMG! 60K!!! I'm RICH!" incentive.

Meanwhile the guy working on the line is making more and telling the grunt what is wrong with his stuff.

Depends heavily on the industry. It sounds like you work in a company that treats its engineers like crap. That is unfortunate.

If the guy on the line is "just a guy that works on the line", in many industries he will be in real danger of being replaced by a machine. In other industries, manufacturing may be shifted somewhere else to lower costs. If he is something closer to a manager, he may be in better shape.

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/0...ees_winter07/index.htm

Those numbers look believable.

I say again!

Engineers are the grunts. You are fresh out. You're nice little world of how things should be just isn't reality. It's gonna hit you like a brick, you'll be all crosseyed of how you believed things should be. All those guys studying business and engineering management that you made fun of while in school? Yeah, they're gonna be making twice as much as you are by their late 20s. Good luck.

Ignorance is bliss so they say. You guys are in for a real awakening when you get out of school.

I know, I know...it's cool to think about and look at starting salaries and it is enticing for engineers. It's fun to think about how bright that future may be when 70K seems like a lot of money. But face it, you are the worker bees and you always will be. You are no different in importance than the guy that grades my land. Welcome to the machine.

Engineers do the work, others tell them what to work on. All those business and communication classes you laughed at? It's gonna hit you like a brick.

Yeah, it's too bad Congress passed that law awhile back that says your first job is the career you must stay in for the rest of your life. Otherwise he could always go back to school and pick up some other field.

Oh wait, Congress never did pass that law. Hmmm, maybe he's not so screwed after all....

Spidey doesn't know what he's talking about anyway - business is for people who don't want to enjoy their jobs. If all you want to do is make money, then something like Finanace or Economics is a fine degree. However, Spidey doesn't distinguise those degrees from business administration - business admin majors make less than engineers. You can google the statistics.

Here's one website. It's not the most scientific way of culling numbers (12k people taking a survey), but it's accurate enough for our little discussion.
http://www.studentsreview.com/salary_by_major.php3

10 year averages
Finanace - $237k
Economics - $194k

Yeah, that's a lot of money. But most business majors aren't in Finance or Economics. Those fields are practically on par with science and engineering. Most business majors are in:
Business Management and Administratino - $112k
Communications - $85k

Compare this to science and engineering
Astronomy - 286k
Biology - $146k
Chemical Engineering - $113k
Chemistry - $150k
Civil Engineering - $113k
Mechanical Engineering - $110k
Physics - $118k

Computer engineering is admittedly low at $87k. But come on, who can endorse Communications? I've read the syllabi, some of those courses are "How to be a Secretary." One syllabus in a 400-level (upper division) course stated "Your final grade will be based on how well you schedule a meeting and write several different types of memos."

It is really all a matter of perspective. If you REALLY want to make money, get into Astronomy Or apparently Zoology, damn, $315k?!

I can't take any post seriosly that states Astronomy majors make more than both engineering and business majors. I mean really, does that make any sense to you?

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: steppinthrax

Originally posted by: Xavier434
Statistics simply show an average. The bottom line is that certain fields of work pay more money than others, but you will never really have a ton of money unless you either go into business yourself or invest properly or both.

The exception is with certain government jobs where you can actually apply for a higher salary by showing proof that you have an education higher than the requirements. For example, I work for the school district as a programmer and I could have added something like 6k to my starting salary if I had a Master's degree. As long as I had that proof, I would have been guaranteed the increase.

Also, there are commerical jobs out there which will not accept anything below a masters. If you really want good information, try doing some job searches for about a month and see how much they are offering people with bachelor's degrees as opposed to master's degrees.

I think in my field of Comp Sci a B.S. is all that's really required. I'm working on my Masters in IT just for the Masters. But I rarely see a job posting requring a masters. But the avearge pay for a B.S. with no exp is around the upper 30s and with exp I would say around 45 -60. Over time you can be pulling down 70 to 80 with experience.

I graduated with a BS in Comp Sci. There are not as many jobs which specifically request a masters in that field as opposed to some others, but rest assured that they exist and they pay really well. There is also the case that I mentioned about applying for an increase in certain govt. jobs.

 

[SacrosanctFiend]

Originally posted by: xeemzor

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: Special K

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Aluvus

Originally posted by: Pale Rider
Pipe dream.

Most engineers don't jump into 60k year jobs right out of school. Whoever told you that isn't living in the real world.

Most of the people I graduated with last May (all of whom are engineers of various stripes) got jobs around the $50-60k range, in locations ranging from from Dallas, TX, to a small town in Illinois.

Originally posted by: spidey07
Actually they do, but they hit a ceiling and are unable to move up because they are just engineers. They don't know how to do anything else. You gotta keep the supply of grunts up, so you give the grunts a "OMG! 60K!!! I'm RICH!" incentive.

Meanwhile the guy working on the line is making more and telling the grunt what is wrong with his stuff.

Depends heavily on the industry. It sounds like you work in a company that treats its engineers like crap. That is unfortunate.

If the guy on the line is "just a guy that works on the line", in many industries he will be in real danger of being replaced by a machine. In other industries, manufacturing may be shifted somewhere else to lower costs. If he is something closer to a manager, he may be in better shape.

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/0...ees_winter07/index.htm

Those numbers look believable.

I say again!

Engineers are the grunts. You are fresh out. You're nice little world of how things should be just isn't reality. It's gonna hit you like a brick, you'll be all crosseyed of how you believed things should be. All those guys studying business and engineering management that you made fun of while in school? Yeah, they're gonna be making twice as much as you are by their late 20s. Good luck.

Ignorance is bliss so they say. You guys are in for a real awakening when you get out of school.

I know, I know...it's cool to think about and look at starting salaries and it is enticing for engineers. It's fun to think about how bright that future may be when 70K seems like a lot of money. But face it, you are the worker bees and you always will be. You are no different in importance than the guy that grades my land. Welcome to the machine.

Engineers do the work, others tell them what to work on. All those business and communication classes you laughed at? It's gonna hit you like a brick.

Yeah, it's too bad Congress passed that law awhile back that says your first job is the career you must stay in for the rest of your life. Otherwise he could always go back to school and pick up some other field.

Oh wait, Congress never did pass that law. Hmmm, maybe he's not so screwed after all....

Spidey doesn't know what he's talking about anyway - business is for people who don't want to enjoy their jobs. If all you want to do is make money, then something like Finanace or Economics is a fine degree. However, Spidey doesn't distinguise those degrees from business administration - business admin majors make less than engineers. You can google the statistics.

Here's one website. It's not the most scientific way of culling numbers (12k people taking a survey), but it's accurate enough for our little discussion.
http://www.studentsreview.com/salary_by_major.php3

10 year averages
Finanace - $237k
Economics - $194k

Yeah, that's a lot of money. But most business majors aren't in Finance or Economics. Those fields are practically on par with science and engineering. Most business majors are in:
Business Management and Administratino - $112k
Communications - $85k

Compare this to science and engineering
Astronomy - 286k
Biology - $146k
Chemical Engineering - $113k
Chemistry - $150k
Civil Engineering - $113k
Mechanical Engineering - $110k
Physics - $118k

Computer engineering is admittedly low at $87k. But come on, who can endorse Communications? I've read the syllabi, some of those courses are "How to be a Secretary." One syllabus in a 400-level (upper division) course stated "Your final grade will be based on how well you schedule a meeting and write several different types of memos."

It is really all a matter of perspective. If you REALLY want to make money, get into Astronomy Or apparently Zoology, damn, $315k?!

I can't take any post seriosly that states Astronomy majors make more than both engineering and business majors. I mean really, does that make any sense to you?

I can't take any salary statistics that rely on 12,000 self-reported surveys seriously. Especially when those undecided people are making $491,964 their first year out.

 

[Rudee]

Originally posted by: spacejamz
20 great jobs that don't require a degree

# Air traffic controller

Annual income: $102,030

# Storage and distribution manager

Annual income: $66,600

# Transportation manager

Annual income: $66,600

# Police and detectives supervisor

Annual income: $64,430

# Non-retail sales manager

Annual income: $59,300

# Forest fire fighting and prevention supervisor

Annual income: $58,920

# Municipal fire fighting and prevention supervisor

Annual income: $58,902

# Real estate broker

Annual income: $58,720

# Elevator installers and repairer

Annual income: $58,710

# Sales representative

Annual income: $58,580

# Dental hygienist

Annual income: $58,350

# Radiation therapist

Annual income: $57,700

# Nuclear medicine technologist

Annual income: $56,450

# Child support, missing persons and unemployment insurance fraud investigator

Annual income: $53,900

# Criminal investigators and special agent

Annual income: $53,990

# Immigration and Customs inspector

Annual income: $53,990

# Police detective

Annual Income: $53,990

# Police identification and records officer

Annual income: $53,990

# Commercial pilot

Annual income: $53,870

# Talent director

Annual income: $52,840

Where I live you couldn't even qualify for a mortgage on those salaries, with the exception of the 6 figure one.

 

[Lazy8s]

Originally posted by: 43st
Higher greed means higher income.. Education is just an enabler.

Maybe Im spending too much time reading P&N but maybe this was a joke? Otherwise I think you most likely are contributing to the statistic that stupidity = lower income. My dad is the least greedy person I have ever met and he earns plenty. He just shows up at 9am and leaves at 5pm to do a job that few people have the mentak capacity to do. In fact, he takes 6 weeks of vacation a year and works negligible overtime to boot. Doesn't sound greedy to me. Sounds like smart+good education = win.