Are the Red States Carrying Their Own Weight?

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
The real point of it all is that we need each other, and need to understand the wisdom in that. I also think that there's not much resentment coming from the Blue states in this regard, but rather from the other side in the form of semi delusional right wing thinking and attacks. All of this stand up on your own two feet ya welfare moochin' lefties and yada, yada yoo-hoo is a form of denial as to who benefits most from the current system, and those who espouse hatred of the government should probably wake up and smell the coffee- they benefit, too, which is the whole point of government...

Of course, THIS above is the real answer to all this nonsense, we are all Americans and we do indeed all need each other.

I hope the true thrust of Infohawk's post here was to counterbalance all the conservative nonsense we heard the last few years about how the Red States harbor the true Americans and the Blue States are full of nothing but socialistic parasites. That's ugly divisive bullsh!t, and should stop NOW!

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Baltazar325
OMG, this may be the dumbest thread I have ever seen on P&N. it always amazes me how people in the blue states always think they are smarter than those of us from a red state. We are all just hicks to them. I have never watched a NASCAR race, but I have shoes, I can read, write and I will even soon have a doctorial degree. True there are lots of ignorant rednecks in my state, but I've been to lots of blue states as well, and I have found lots of ignorant rednecks there as too. Ignorance is global.

Try using some of those doctoral smarts on reading this thread again noticing this time the dumbass comments coming from some of the 'reds'.

glenn1, I usually find you to make a lot of sense but I have to say your reply to Jhhnn seems just plain dumb. I guess it's probably that Libertarian bull sh!t you buy into.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Yes, let me know how that Chinese corn treats you, or that French beef, or that Russian melon. Give me a break. You might think that Minchenden's post refutes that, but it really enforces it. I would bet bottom dollar that the raw materials for 90% of that list come from midwestern farms - how much produce is grown in New Jersey? Our farmers feed most of the world as it stands now. The reason they don't grow the rest of the land they have is because we don't have sufficient means to distribute the food to other markets, not because they're lazy. Billions of tons of produce get thrown away in the States as is, and the farmers make 2-3% on the dollars that they shell out.

LOL, you really have no idea, do you? There's a reason NJ is called the Garden State. Jersey tomatoes are famous, and rightfully so.

Have you ever heard the term "truck farm"? Jersey is full of them. Small scale private enterprise at it's finest -- thousands of small family owned produce plots run by that family and delivered to market with their truck.

I live in Southeastern Pa., near Jersey. Jersey corn and Jersey tomatoes are famous for their taste and quality -- sold by hundreds upon hundreds of roadside stands to Pennsylvanians (amongst others) going back and forth to "the shore" (that would be the beach to you).

Where I live, just an hour North of Philadelphia, I can go three properities down my street for fresh corn and tomatoes from the field right there. Pick your own strawberries and blueberries are a few minutes away (in season). Less than a mile away is Haring Bros. meats -- locally grown and dressed beef and pork and such. Less than an hour to the West lies Lancaster County, home to the Amish and some of THE BEST farmland on God's green Earth.

That bounty is trucked in by the Amish and sold in farmer's markets all over here.

Tropical fruit is another matter (like oranges), coming mostly from Florida, but, in fact, almost ALL of our produce (except the most exotic varieties) is local. When not in season, it comes mainly from Chile and California, NOT your precious Red States.

Educate yourself.

Addendum via Google: Pennsylvania ranked 9th among all states in commercial red meat production in 1996. Pennsylvania's rankings by number of head slaughtered were: 9th for cattle, 3rd for calves, 11th for hogs, and 5th for sheep.

The entire point of my thread, which you missed, is that the vast majority of our food comes from the Midwest. So I wasn't thinking and said NJ has no produce - I'm an idiot, and that should be expected. There are cornfields in Kansas and Nebraska bigger than New Jersey.

 

[RabidMongoose]

This thread is kind of stupid, but I guess it is true that the 'better' states are the 'blue' states, depending on what your definition of better is. Hell, California is the 5th largest world economy!

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Perknose

I hope the true thrust of Infohawk's post here was to counterbalance all the conservative nonsense we heard the last few years about how the Red States harbor the true Americans and the Blue States are full of nothing but socialistic parasites.

Yeah. That's pretty much it. Except I think more agressive wording and berating them like they berate "welfare moms" gets the message home a little better. 🙂

 

[wirelessenabled]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Honestly, I don't think subsidizing certain regions is wrong, UNLESS those regions constantly gripe about communism and how poor people don't carry their own weight. I think it's hypocritical of the conservatives to support corporate welfare but not welfare for human beings. Face it, the masses of nascar zealots in the red states think they are self-sufficient masters of the social-darwinist food chain when in fact they are among those in need of biggest help. It's just pathetic.

How do you plan on eating if we just eliminate all the farmers? Here's a clue, New York city doesn't grow the food it eats, it doesn't drill for the oil it uses, it doesn't dig the coal it uses to produce electricity. Government subsidies to farmers is not the same as welfare for someone who doesn't want to work.

Heh - someday he'll wake up and find out his milk, eggs, and bacon come from somewhere else than just the store😛 I love hearing city folk whine about rural america - I think farmers should stop growing one thing for a year - just to spite the morons.

CsG

I would like to see the subsidies to farmers stop for one year to show them that capitalism works. The inefficient producers get weeded out and the strong ones go on to produce more with less input.

Ending the subsidies for farmers is NOT the same as "eliminat(ing) all farmers". It is about eliminating the farmers who have no clue and should not be in the business at all.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard
The entire point of my thread, which you missed, is that the vast majority of our food comes from the Midwest. So I wasn't thinking and said NJ has no produce - I'm an idiot, and that should be expected. There are cornfields in Kansas and Nebraska bigger than New Jersey.

I missed nothing. "The entire point" of my post was that you could dirve a truck (farm) through the holes in your argument, and you can.

The (sometimes) great state of Florida is either second or third in cattle. My own state of Pennsylvania is 9th (3rd for calves). And so on and so on.

NONE of our produce comes from the Mid-West. NONE of our fruit comes from the Mid-West. A not insiginificant portion of our wheat comes from the CANANDIAN Mid-West, soybeans are grown in the South, and guess where the basmati rice I eat comes from.. Go ahead, guess.

Also, I trust you were being colorfull with your Mid-West centric, uhhhhh, metaphor? that "There are cornfields in Kansas and Nebraska bigger than New Jersey." Otherwise, you are off by several orders of maginitude.

As to the true answer to the underlying issue, look to my post quoting the estimable Jhnnn, or, hell, just read his oringinal post. The real point is that we all benefit from each other, our sum is far greater than our parts, and the hateful Republican rhetoric of late that demonizes the coasts is divisive crap.

I hope that in the main, you agree.

 

[Moonbeam]

How 'ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm
After they've seen Paree?
How 'ya gonna keep them away from Broadway,
Jazzin' around,
And paintin' the town?
How 'ya gonna keep 'em away from harm?
That's the mystery!
They'll never want to see a rake or plow,
And who the deuce can parlez-vous a cow?
How 'ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm
After they've seen Paree?

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Perknose
I missed nothing. "The entire point" of my post was that you could dirve a truck (farm) through the holes in your argument, and you can.

The (sometimes) great state of Florida is either second or third in cattle. My own state of Pennsylvania is 9th (3rd for calves). And so on and so on.

NONE of our produce comes from the Mid-West. NONE of our fruit comes from the Mid-West. A not insiginificant portion of our wheat comes from the CANANDIAN Mid-West, soybeans are grown in the South, and guess where the basmati rice I eat comes from.. Go ahead, guess.

Also, I trust you were being colorfull with your Mid-West centric, uhhhhh, metaphor? that "There are cornfields in Kansas and Nebraska bigger than New Jersey." Otherwise, you are off by several orders of maginitude.

As to the true answer to the underlying issue, look to my post quoting the estimable Jhnnn, or, hell, just read his oringinal post. The real point is that we all benefit from each other, our sum is far greater than our parts, and the hateful Republican rhetoric of late that demonizes the coasts is divisive crap.

I hope that in the main, you agree.

Dear lord man, stop microanalyzing posts and take them at face value. The fact that you live in the one region of the country that is nearly self-sufficient foodwise doesn't mean you have to try to jam your cock down my throat. Get a grip.

Oh, and I already lauded Jhhnn's post before you quoted it.:disgust:

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
The new book, the great divide explains

Metro America, with 34 percent of the land mass, has 65 percent of the population, with a density of 151 persons per square mile. Metro America produces the majority of the nation?s tax revenue, but some $200 billion a year of Metro taxes flow to Retro states and support the economic life of its small cities, towns, and rural areas.

How ironic is it that the red states are deadbeats who don't carry their own weight? They complain about personal responsibility and high taxes but then they take more from the Blue States without giving back.

Take responsibility and support yourselves deadbeat Nascar dads... :thumbsdown: Or at least ask nicely when you want handouts and don't act like you're above 'em. 😉

really dumb post

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: ciba
I would support leveling parts of Los Angeles or New York

I'm sure your friends in Al Qaeda would be willing to oblige you.

Wow is ciba a member of al qaeda?

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
The real point of it all is that we need each other, and need to understand the wisdom in that. I also think that there's not much resentment coming from the Blue states in this regard, but rather from the other side in the form of semi delusional right wing thinking and attacks. All of this stand up on your own two feet ya welfare moochin' lefties and yada, yada yoo-hoo is a form of denial as to who benefits most from the current system, and those who espouse hatred of the government should probably wake up and smell the coffee- they benefit, too, which is the whole point of government...

Of course, THIS above is the real answer to all this nonsense, we are all Americans and we do indeed all need each other.

I hope the true thrust of Infohawk's post here was to counterbalance all the conservative nonsense we heard the last few years about how the Red States harbor the true Americans and the Blue States are full of nothing but socialistic parasites. That's ugly divisive bullsh!t, and should stop NOW!

Dude, read this moron's recent posts. He preaches ugly divisive bullshit, and I agree; it should stop now.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Corn
Dude, read this moron's recent posts. He preaches ugly divisive bullshit, and I agree; it should stop now.

Pot, meet kettle.

There is no more bitter person up here than yourself.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Corn
Dude, read this moron's recent posts. He preaches ugly divisive bullshit, and I agree; it should stop now.

Pot, meet kettle.

There is no more bitter person up here than yourself.

Don't speak to me Conjur until you answer my question from that other thread: Are you through being a lying troll? Yes or no only please.

Yoo hoo!!!!

 

[Corn]

A singular example of Infobuzzard's stupidity:

Text

I don't think the red state masses get tired of being manipulated. In fact, the religion of Paul the apostle tells them that it's unecessary to think for oneself. Accepting what you are told and having faith in it is Good. It also doesn't hurt when you use bright lights to bewilder and amaze them, or let them sit in front of cars moving around ovals in the expectation that one will blow up and they'll be able to mourn a new martyr of the concrete oval.

Is this a positive example of the liberal progressive mind? You decide, he's on your side Perk.

 

[Insane3D]

I don't mean to break up all the partisan bickering, but if anyone is interested, the entire Great Divide book is available for free on their site in .pdf format.

http://retrovsmetro.org/book/

🙂

 

[Moonbeam]

What I don't understand is why people form the city are citified and people from the country are countrified. It's just weird. How could that many people be born in the place that's right for them. The odds against it are staggering, but there it is.

 

[Mockery]

Jesus Christ this thread is dense.

Talk about some pompous propagandists?.

For the most part, all I have seen in this discussion is the argument over red vs. blue states?.I?ve seen California listed a dozen or so times also:

As if California is one huge Democratic entity and Florida is just one huge Republican gathering. That logic is entirely erroneous. I think this discussion would be far more fruitful if the partisan trolls weren?t trying to interpret the world around them in binary.

BTW: Speaking of California, and it being the fifth largest economy in the world (and it being conveniently classified as a blue state).

95% of the counties in California voted Republican and 5% voted democrat in the last recall election.

http://www.style.org/mappingvotes/

Yikes?I?ve never seen more ?red? in a quote on quote ?blue state.?

The election results in 2000 (for Governor) weren?t much different.

So this entire red vs. blue state crap falls completely apart when you take more than a nanosecond to actually evaluate it under any form of scrutiny. The more obvious fact here is that more people simply live in the big cities of California than they do in the surrounding rural areas. Thus is why its electoral votes tend to swing the way they do. This in no way means that the state can be classified under one ideology. Hell, even individual counties have sub categories that need to be considered, as do the cities within those subsections.

What a hubris debate this has turned out to be.

If you eat produce, meat, enjoy electricity, or want water as an urban metropolis dweller, you better play nice with your surrounding areas.

 

[Format C:]

Based upon your most eloquently stated and strongly expressed desire for seperatism I have taken the liberty of calling an emergency meeting of the representatives of all real Americans and having entertained and debated your proposal at great length and having duly placed it before the complete assemblage for a vote we have concluded and are all in unanimous agreement that we as a people will be more than happy for all of you enlightened people to peel off and go your own way. It is our estimation and strong belief that collectively and individually you grossly and completely overestimate your worth to the village, the state, the nation, and to the world community as a whole, and as it is our firmly held belief that having contributed virtually nothing of substance to that society which has indulgently suffered you so we posit that you will not now nor will you ever be missed. It is our firm intent and desire to be accommodating and more than fair concerning this matter therefore we will allow you to have first choice of 25 of our common States, with the non debateable nor negotiable caveat that those 25 you choose must adjoin each other. Save for Alaska & Hawaii of course, and we will even generously give you first choice between those two as well. Please consider your choices carefully, choose wisely, and please choose quickly, but please be certain that when you complete the process of choosing that the re-location begins immediately with all due haste and that it is thorough and permanent because those of us left behind which you have adjudged and found undeserving of your grace, benevolence, and superior intellect, have all a shared and rather burning desire to spend not one idle moment until we have completed construction upon a wall substantial in form and daunting in purpose from one end of our shared border to the other. We believe this formally permanent solution would be of great import and utmost benefit to both of our civilizations. Well, to ours anyway. Good-bye, good luck, have a good life. Don't call, don't write, don't come back.

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: Mockery
Jesus Christ this thread is dense.

Talk about some pompous propagandists?.

For the most part, all I have seen in this discussion is the argument over red vs. blue states?.I?ve seen California listed a dozen or so times also:

As if California is one huge Democratic entity and Florida is just one huge Republican gathering. That logic is entirely erroneous. I think this discussion would be far more fruitful if the partisan trolls weren?t trying to interpret the world around them in binary.

BTW: Speaking of California, and it being the fifth largest economy in the world (and it being conveniently classified as a blue state).

95% of the counties in California voted Republican and 5% voted democrat in the last recall election.

http://www.style.org/mappingvotes/

Yikes?I?ve never seen more ?red? in a quote on quote ?blue state.?

The election results in 2000 (for Governor) weren?t much different.

So this entire red vs. blue state crap falls completely apart when you take more than a nanosecond to actually evaluate it under any form of scrutiny. The more obvious fact here is that more people simply live in the big cities of California than they do in the surrounding rural areas. Thus is why its electoral votes tend to swing the way they do. This in no way means that the state can be classified under one ideology. Hell, even individual counties have sub categories that need to be considered, as do the cities within those subsections.

What a hubris debate this has turned out to be.

If you eat produce, meat, enjoy electricity, or want water as an urban metropolis dweller, you better play nice with your surrounding areas.

You, my friend, earn the golden kernal award. Well said.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
The new book, the great divide explains

Metro America, with 34 percent of the land mass, has 65 percent of the population, with a density of 151 persons per square mile. Metro America produces the majority of the nation?s tax revenue, but some $200 billion a year of Metro taxes flow to Retro states and support the economic life of its small cities, towns, and rural areas.

How ironic is it that the red states are deadbeats who don't carry their own weight? They complain about personal responsibility and high taxes but then they take more from the Blue States without giving back.

Take responsibility and support yourselves deadbeat Nascar dads... :thumbsdown: Or at least ask nicely when you want handouts and don't act like you're above 'em. 😉

You are aware that most of the food you eat, energy you use, and gasoline you buy comes from the "red states" aren't you? We can stop sending all that if you like. Wouldn't bother me a bit to see the elitist snobs on both coasts come begging us for food.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: Infohawk
The new book, the great divide explains

Metro America, with 34 percent of the land mass, has 65 percent of the population, with a density of 151 persons per square mile. Metro America produces the majority of the nation?s tax revenue, but some $200 billion a year of Metro taxes flow to Retro states and support the economic life of its small cities, towns, and rural areas.

How ironic is it that the red states are deadbeats who don't carry their own weight? They complain about personal responsibility and high taxes but then they take more from the Blue States without giving back.

Take responsibility and support yourselves deadbeat Nascar dads... :thumbsdown: Or at least ask nicely when you want handouts and don't act like you're above 'em. 😉

You are aware that most of the food you eat, energy you use, and gasoline you buy comes from the "red states" aren't you? We can stop sending all that if you like. Wouldn't bother me a bit to see the elitist snobs on both coasts come begging us for food.

Surely you don't mean California which can sustain itself very easily on the Food it produces.

Anyway you are sadly mistaken if you believe that the vast majority of Californians are elitist Liberals. Sure the majority might be Democrats and most don't like Bush but as for them all being Liberals, well how do you account for 3 out of the last 4 Governors in Ca being Republicans? Maybe you should read Mockery's post as is is dead on!

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: Infohawk
The new book, the great divide explains

Metro America, with 34 percent of the land mass, has 65 percent of the population, with a density of 151 persons per square mile. Metro America produces the majority of the nation?s tax revenue, but some $200 billion a year of Metro taxes flow to Retro states and support the economic life of its small cities, towns, and rural areas.

How ironic is it that the red states are deadbeats who don't carry their own weight? They complain about personal responsibility and high taxes but then they take more from the Blue States without giving back.

Take responsibility and support yourselves deadbeat Nascar dads... :thumbsdown: Or at least ask nicely when you want handouts and don't act like you're above 'em. 😉

You are aware that most of the food you eat, energy you use, and gasoline you buy comes from the "red states" aren't you? We can stop sending all that if you like. Wouldn't bother me a bit to see the elitist snobs on both coasts come begging us for food.

Surely you don't mean California which can sustain itself very easily on the Food it produces.

Anyway you are sadly mistaken if you believe that the vast majority of Californians are elitist Liberals. Sure the majority might be Democrats and most don't like Bush but as for them all being Liberals, well how do you account for 3 out of the last 4 Governors in Ca being Republicans? Maybe you should read Mockery's post as is is dead on!

I was really aiming things more at the East coast. Yeah Cali could do well on it's own most likely as far as food goes. As for the liberal part.....you're probably right. The only real exposure I have to Californians is the couple of months I spent there about 10 years ago. Seems like everyone I met was a liberal nut job. I mean waaaaaaay out there on the left. I work with a guy from Sacramento and he says the same think about the people he grew up with there. Yeah I was generalizing based on limited info. Just like the original OP was when he called everyone in the red states "deadbeat nascar dads"

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: shinerburke
I was really aiming things more at the East coast. Yeah Cali could do well on it's own most likely as far as food goes. As for the liberal part.....you're probably right. The only real exposure I have to Californians is the couple of months I spent there about 10 years ago. Seems like everyone I met was a liberal nut job. I mean waaaaaaay out there on the left. I work with a guy from Sacramento and he says the same think about the people he grew up with there. Yeah I was generalizing based on limited info. Just like the original OP was when he called everyone in the red states "deadbeat nascar dads"

LOL, surely you don't want me to stereotype all Oklahomans from the Okies I have met, especially the Fund a Mental Case whackjobs that are on my mothers side of the family😉 Keep in mind that CA has 30 million residents and has counties bigger than many of the States in population and area. It's actually as diverse as the Eastern Seaboard.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: wirelessenabled

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Honestly, I don't think subsidizing certain regions is wrong, UNLESS those regions constantly gripe about communism and how poor people don't carry their own weight. I think it's hypocritical of the conservatives to support corporate welfare but not welfare for human beings. Face it, the masses of nascar zealots in the red states think they are self-sufficient masters of the social-darwinist food chain when in fact they are among those in need of biggest help. It's just pathetic.

How do you plan on eating if we just eliminate all the farmers? Here's a clue, New York city doesn't grow the food it eats, it doesn't drill for the oil it uses, it doesn't dig the coal it uses to produce electricity. Government subsidies to farmers is not the same as welfare for someone who doesn't want to work.

Heh - someday he'll wake up and find out his milk, eggs, and bacon come from somewhere else than just the store😛 I love hearing city folk whine about rural america - I think farmers should stop growing one thing for a year - just to spite the morons.

CsG

I would like to see the subsidies to farmers stop for one year to show them that capitalism works. The inefficient producers get weeded out and the strong ones go on to produce more with less input.

Ending the subsidies for farmers is NOT the same as "eliminat(ing) all farmers". It is about eliminating the farmers who have no clue and should not be in the business at all.

Well, that certainly would weed out some of those that don't have enough capital to ride for a year. I would prefer a more gradual approach though instead of an abrupt change. Lots of issue when you open this box.

CsG