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Are public sector unions the problem with state budgets??

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gregoryvg said:
Seriously, I don't get how people can defend public-sector unions. You do realize that you are paying for them via taxes? Why should they get overpaid and a more expensive benefit package than a private sector employee's doing the exact same work? It is extortion, no better word for it - and we are forced to pay for it through higher taxes.
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Because the public unions provide balance to the abuse of power that would otherwise exploit them; overall they're not overpaid, not better compensated than the private sector (read studies then post), and the benefits of their doing better is in part that the private workers do too because of it - rather than the public being an anchor hurting private workers. Government functions better with more fair pay. You sound likea blind ideologue with the pointless comment 'you have to pay for it through taxes'. You want slave labor?
 
Craig234 said:
Because the public unions provide balance to the abuse of power that would otherwise exploit them; overall they're not overpaid, not better compensated than the private sector (read studies then post), and the benefits of their doing better is in part that the private workers do too because of it - rather than the public being an anchor hurting private workers. Government functions better with more fair pay. You sound likea blind ideologue with the pointless comment 'you have to pay for it through taxes'. You want slave labor?
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power? you mean balance of power vs the TAX PAYER? I thought you people loved the gov't - why would workers need protection from the great gov't? :hmm:

BTW, you are wrong - I posted the results of a study that showed wisconsin was #3 in the public vs private wage gap. But continue to ignore reality .🙂
 
Red Dawn said:
Wi residents better hope he does because if this bill passes I see the Teachers Union going on Strike.
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I hope they do, then we can rid out schools of the leeches and get some teachers in there that want to focus on teaching the kids instead of sucking the tax payer teet. Maybe once the union mentality is broken - we can get some actual performance pay instituted in the gov't school system.😱
 
CADsortaGUY said:
I hope they do, then we can rid out schools of the leeches and get some teachers in there that want to focus on teaching the kids instead of sucking the tax payer teet. Maybe once the union mentality is broken - we can get some actual performance pay instituted in the gov't school system.😱
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Yeah it's the teachers fault the kids are stupid and not the parents. You out of anybody here should know what it's like to try and teach and raise another persons kid.
 
Red Dawn said:
Yeah it's the teachers fault the kids are stupid and not the parents. You out of anybody here should know what it's like to try and teach and raise another persons kid.
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dick

But nowhere did I blame the teachers. However, I believe their focus should be on the kids - not sucking on the tax payer teet. Try reading and you might understand.

You see, if the teachers really had to perform - they would demand participation from the parents - but they don't. Performance doesn't matter and they just trot out excuse after excuse.
 
CADsortaGUY said:
dick

But nowhere did I blame the teachers. However, I believe their focus should be on the kids - not sucking on the tax payer teet. Try reading and you might understand.

You see, if the teachers really had to perform - they would demand participation from the parents - but they don't. Performance doesn't matter and they just trot out excuse after excuse.
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And you know they don't demand the parents participation how?
 
Red Dawn said:
And you know they don't demand the parents participation how?
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Wouldn't matter anyway. Many parents just don't give a shit. Schools, because of dumb shit like "No child left behind", have become baby sitting services for the public, especially kids with special needs that shouldn't be in the classroom with other kids anyway.

I didn't think it was worth going into teaching anyway for what you were required in education vs what you were paid and the aggrevation of doing it. Now I know it won't be worth it. People have no idea what these people have to go through to teach.

People pay hundreds of dollars per hour for a lawyer, 75 per hour to work on your car, but whine like babies to pay degreed professionals $30 per hour to work on your kids (and their working conditions are far harder than most can imagine).

Shrugs...you get what you pay for....I guess we can import people from China and the likes....

(oh, and before anyone claims I'm a union lover...I can't stand them....more like an Onion...but I understand their place in history and at some point, I think they will make a roaring comeback....but, as of now, I see this for what it is).
 
So WI Students aren't very smart and it's the teachers fault? Maybe they are called Cheeseheads for a reason outside of Packer Football
 
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Engineer said:
Wouldn't matter anyway. Many parents just don't give a shit. Schools, because of dumb shit like "No child left behind", have become baby sitting services for the public, especially kids with special needs that shouldn't be in the classroom with other kids anyway.

I didn't think it was worth going into teaching anyway for what you were required in education vs what you were paid and the aggrevation of doing it. Now I know it won't be worth it. People have no idea what these people have to go through to teach.

People pay hundreds of dollars per hour for a lawyer, 75 per hour to work on your car, but whine like babies to pay degreed professionals $30 per hour to work on your kids (and their working conditions are far harder than most can imagine).

Shrugs...you get what you pay for....I guess we can import people from China and the likes....

(oh, and before anyone claims I'm a union lover...I can't stand them....more like an Onion...but I understand their place in history and at some point, I think they will make a roaring comeback....but, as of now, I see this for what it is).
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The problem is schools spend about $8500 per student/year. Take a class of 25 students and that equates to more than 200k per classroom a year. A teacher takes about 1/3 of that and rest is lost to overheard. There is a problem with education spending. I wonder what the staff to student ratio is at schools as compares to student to teacher ratio.
 
charrison said:
The problem is schools spend about $8500 per student/year. Take a class of 25 students and that equates to more than 200k per classroom a year. A teacher takes about 1/3 of that and rest is lost to overheard. There is a problem with education spending. I wonder what the staff to student ratio is at schools as compares to student to teacher ratio.
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I think it's closer to 1/4. 1/4 for administrators, 1/4 for support staff, 1/4 for transportation' (bus drivers)
 
Red Dawn said:
The Republicans want to bust the Unions because they know it will weaken their political opponents, Democrats and that's all this is about.
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So wait a minute, you have to be in a union to vote democrat? Are you afraid that if union members aren't given their opinions they might actually vote for ...gasp ...a republican?
 
Craig234 said:
As far as Fox - give me a break. Fox IS a terrible propaganda piece, a bought and paid for ideology machine with its views dictated by the 'ideology priests' on high.

It intentionally misleads, distorts, emphasizes for propaganda and many other things. It's not comparable to any other network, including MSNBC.
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You are such a joke.
 
Exterous said:
I think it's closer to 1/4. 1/4 for administrators, 1/4 for support staff, 1/4 for transportation' (bus drivers)
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just looking at raw numbers teachers probably get 1/3 to 1/2 of that 8500 in salary and benefits. But I am guessing there is an equal number of support staff to teachers.
 
Unions are a very large part of the problem.
Their pensions should never have been backed by the faith and credit of the state.
If the pensions were mismanaged then tough luck.

The fact of the matter is that there shouldn't be people who make careers out of leading unions. Union leadership should be volunteer and be selected from the membership. Collecting dues to buy politicians should never be allowed in the public sector.
 
Patranus said:
Unions are a very large part of the problem.
Their pensions should never have been backed by the faith and credit of the state.
If the pensions were mismanaged then tough luck.

The fact of the matter is that there shouldn't be people who make careers out of leading unions. Union leadership should be volunteer and be selected from the membership. Collecting dues to buy politicians should never be allowed in the public sector.
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Every sentence wrong.
 
charrison said:
just looking at raw numbers teachers probably get 1/3 to 1/2 of that 8500 in salary and benefits. But I am guessing there is an equal number of support staff to teachers.
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Do you have any national links? I was can only find regional specific. I got the 1/4 from looking at schools in PA and Michigan
 
"And understand this: If American workers are being denied their right to organize and collectively bargain when I’m in the White House, I will put on a comfortable pair of shoes myself, I’ll will walk on that picket line with you as President of the United States of America. Because workers deserve to know that somebody is standing in their corner."
--------Senator Obama 2007
 
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