Are Muslims overly sensitive about the Prophet Mohammad?

[JohnOfSheffield]

Again, same for any crime! I don't support violence generally but I don't mind punishing someone who chose to commit a crime. This is how things go.

And since the filmmaker didn't commit a crime you want nothing done about them but you do want something done about the protesters who did commit crimes?

Well, we're on the same page then.

 

[JEDIYoda]

It depends on whether the free speech is meant to intimidate others. If it is, then it is illegal and not protected, in the US at least.

really you have a link.......
Thats a slippery slope......all speech is capable of intimidating somebody....
Look at the Westborro Church....everything they do or say is to intimidate others....yet they are protected by the very same free speech you say is illegal....hmmmmm

 

[Nebor]

True, but Islam is not an absent religion. It gets involved with what happens. More importantly, your rules are not absolutes for us.

And there it is. Willing to exploit our principals and institutions to get their way, but then crush and disregard them when they disagree with them. You can't appease an enemy that won't settle for less than everything.

 

[Alaa]

I'm trying to understand what it is that you are saying. That you are from the ME makes no difference to me in terms of evaluating your worth as a person. I'm trying to know what your thoughts and ideas are and from that I'll draw some conclusions about them. Assume I am neither your friend nor your enemy because that's not how I think. I'm acquiring knowledge and perspective for myself to have a better understanding. That does not invalidate my stated opinion, however I am not so foolish as to fear other opinions and consider them.

I don't really understand what you are getting at. Are you saying you didn't take what I said seriously? (About beheading random people)

 

[Alaa]

And since the filmmaker didn't commit a crime you want nothing done about them but you do want something done about the protesters who did commit crimes?

Well, we're on the same page then.

And making such movies should be considered as a crime as well.

And there it is. Willing to exploit our principals and institutions to get their way, but then crush and disregard them when they disagree with them. You can't appease an enemy that won't settle for less than everything.

So you are saying that American laws are the best for humanity?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I'm going to walk this back a bit for a clearer understanding.

And making such movies should be considered as a crime as well.

Do you not have such a law?

 

[Alaa]

I'm going to walk this back a bit for a clearer understanding.



Do you not have such a law?

In Egypt? Yes, if that's what you mean. :ninja:

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

In Egypt? Yes, if that's what you mean. :ninja:

That's what I meant. I'm doing this slowly to connect the dots as the saying goes, I'm not assuming you are stupid.

Do you believe that laws of one nation ought to extend to those in another? In other words let's take the US as an example. We have a constitution and the implicit belief that people are free to do as they will as long as it does not conflict with our law, and our law derives from our founding document. Do think we have the right to believe that it should apply to Egypt or any other nation?

Edit- I'm assuming the answer is no. In that case is the feeling reciprocal? Do we have the same rights as you?

 

[bfdd]

Alas, I don't think making such movies should be a crime because what offends me is vastly different than what offends you. If we are making things illegal because they offend or insult, I have a huge list of things I'd like to see done away with. I have a feeling it would really piss off a lot of people if they banned all the things I don't like, find offensive or insulting.

 

[Nebor]

So you are saying that American laws are the best for humanity?

Well, yes. But I'm not expecting the orangutans to do calculus as it were, so I'll settle for American laws being the best for America. Don't come to America (or Europe) and expect to enjoy the fruits of Western civilization while denigrating the principals of freedom and open-mindedness that make them possible. Don't expect to live by your religious laws in our secular nations. And don't expect our secular nations to show one iota of respect for your barbaric religion.

If you have an issue with that, just stay in your own nations, amidst the violence and poverty you've created for yourself. While you're at it, disregard the fruits of the decadent West, like cell phones, internet access, vaccines, etc. Also, you should stop the more radical among you from planning to attack the West, or people like me will have to come to your nation and punish all of you for the actions of a few radicals.

 

[Alaa]

That's what I meant. I'm doing this slowly to connect the dots as the saying goes, I'm not assuming you are stupid.

Do you believe that laws of one nation ought to extend to those in another? In other words let's take the US as an example. We have a constitution and the implicit belief that people are free to do as they will as long as it does not conflict with our law, and our law derives from our founding document. Do think we have the right to believe that it should apply to Egypt or any other nation?

Edit- I'm assuming the answer is no. In that case is the feeling reciprocal? Do we have the same rights as you?

Well, Nebor just said yes!!

Anyway, you have the same rights but I am talking about laws that make your people infringe on my freedom of belief by spreading fallacies about my religious figures.

 

[Alaa]

Alas, I don't think making such movies should be a crime because what offends me is vastly different than what offends you. If we are making things illegal because they offend or insult, I have a huge list of things I'd like to see done away with. I have a feeling it would really piss off a lot of people if they banned all the things I don't like, find offensive or insulting.

I tried to describe to you that it is not about feeling offended. It is about making stuff that's offending by itself like depicting religious figures in sexual intercourse!!

 

[Alaa]

Well, yes. But I'm not expecting the orangutans to do calculus as it were, so I'll settle for American laws being the best for America. Don't come to America (or Europe) and expect to enjoy the fruits of Western civilization while denigrating the principals of freedom and open-mindedness that make them possible. Don't expect to live by your religious laws in our secular nations. And don't expect our secular nations to show one iota of respect for your barbaric religion.

If you have an issue with that, just stay in your own nations, amidst the violence and poverty you've created for yourself. While you're at it, disregard the fruits of the decadent West, like cell phones, internet access, vaccines, etc. Also, you should stop the more radical among you from planning to attack the West, or people like me will have to come to your nation and punish all of you for the actions of a few radicals.

:hmm:

:awe:

 

[bfdd]

I tried to describe to you that it is not about feeling offended. It is about making stuff that's offending by itself like depicting religious figures in sexual intercourse!!

I'm saying there's no difference, they are the exact sa,e because we each assign the same value to them. We just disagree on the values in regard to each other. This is why in support free speech even if people are retarded, because there's no way we'll all agree on a everything.

 

[Alaa]

I'm saying there's no difference, they are the exact sa,e because we each assign the same value to them. We just disagree on the values in regard to each other. This is why in support free speech even if people are retarded, because there's no way we'll all agree on a everything.

I think it is pretty fair when we ask that religious figures should not be depicted in things like sexual intercourse!

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Well, Nebor just said yes!!

Anyway, you have the same rights but I am talking about laws that make your people infringe on my freedom of belief by spreading fallacies about my religious figures.

I ignore most of what's said here because it's more about testosterone than thought and so I dismiss it.

I accept that you believe movies like this are something we should ban. Starting from there, what do you believe is the legitimate right and duty of a Muslim if we do not? This is the crux of the matter as I see it.

 

[bfdd]

I think it is pretty fair when we ask that religious figures should not be depicted in things like sexual intercourse!

What if that doesn't offend me? What if censorship offends me because I believe in information and the flow of it I hold above all else? What if I find your quran offensive should that be banned? What if I thought anything referring to the sky being blue offensive to my world view? Should all of those things be banned as well?

 

[Nebor]

I think it is pretty fair when we ask that religious figures should not be depicted in things like sexual intercourse!

It's not fair. It's ridiculous. People have a right to say whatever they want. The fact that you think people should be punished for saying something offensive about the kiddy-diddling prophet to your non-existent god just shows how backwards you are.

You essentially don't believe in freedom. You believe in submitting to your god above all else. Since I know for a fact that your god doesn't exist, you can probably imagine how that informs my opinion of you. That wouldn't be such a huge problem if you weren't causing problems and starting shit all the time.

I'm in an especially angry mood because one of your brothers decided it was 72 virgin time and blew himself up near here this afternoon, wounding 3 US soldiers.

 

[bfdd]

It's not fair. It's ridiculous. People have a right to say whatever they want. The fact that you think people should be punished for saying something offensive about the kiddy-diddling prophet to your non-existent god just shows how backwards you are.

You essentially don't believe in freedom. You believe in submitting to your god above all else. Since I know for a fact that your god doesn't exist, you can probably imagine how that informs my opinion of you. That wouldn't be such a huge problem if you weren't causing problems and starting shit all the time.

I'm in an especially angry mood because one of your brothers decided it was 72 virgin time and blew himself up near here this afternoon, wounding 3 US soldiers.

Worst of all he is openly admitting his faith is weak. So weak that the actions and words of man cause doubt in his God and prophet. So much so that they must be wiped out completely else he and other good !Muslims may lose their faith. As a non-religious person I am always saddened when those who proclaim faith have so little of it.

Also, I don't want to send our military or people like Nebor over there to fight this fight. I don-t think anyone really understands the end game here. We need distance to do business, stay hands ore, else something stupid will happen and the USA will end up killing everyone in the region. I do not want that blood on y hands.

 

[Orignal Earl]

It's not fair. It's ridiculous. People have a right to say whatever they want. The fact that you think people should be punished for saying something offensive about the kiddy-diddling prophet to your non-existent god just shows how backwards you are.

You essentially don't believe in freedom. You believe in submitting to your god above all else. Since I know for a fact that your god doesn't exist, you can probably imagine how that informs my opinion of you. That wouldn't be such a huge problem if you weren't causing problems and starting shit all the time.

I'm in an especially angry mood because one of your brothers decided it was 72 virgin time and blew himself up near here this afternoon, wounding 3 US soldiers.

Didn't you swear to defend the Constitution?
The Constitution allows religious freedom
You may have your opinion on how you would like to change that, but the stuff you post here seems like a violation of that oath to me.

 

[Incorruptible]

Didn't you swear to defend the Constitution?
The Constitution allows religious freedom
You may have your opinion on how you would like to change that, but the stuff you post here seems like a violation of that to me.

The Constitution allows Freedom of Speech. Do you believe we should have freedom of speech and insult religion?

 

[Orignal Earl]

Is there no way, in the US, that the filmakers of this move could be charged with your exceptions to free speech?

Defamation, incitement to riot, and fighting words?

I've read that the actors/actresses may be filling civil charges and may stop the movie on their own.

 

[Incorruptible]

Is there no way, in the US, that the filmakers of this move could be charged with your exceptions to free speech?

Defamation, incitement to riot, and fighting words?

I've read that the actors/actresses may be filling civil charges and may stop the movie on their own.

They didn't do anything wrong, they have the right to make the film

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

............

Is there no way, in the US, that the filmakers of this move could be charged with your exceptions to free speech?

Defamation, incitement to riot, and fighting words?

I've read that the actors/actresses may be filling civil charges and may stop the movie on their own.

No, there is none. The slippery slope is that once an exception is made no matter the justification it sets a precedent. At that point to shut someone up just throw some firebombs to have them silenced. Defamation of the dead is not a valid legal point, and neither are the other things you suggest.

Actors can attempt to sue, but the only negative consequences would result from the cost of defense litigation, not success in the court itself.

Others could try to buy the rights to the film and get rid if it through IP laws, but other than that? I don't see any legal mechanism to prohibit it.

 

[Screech]

Is there no way, in the US, that the filmakers of this move could be charged with your exceptions to free speech?

Defamation, incitement to riot, and fighting words?

I've read that the actors/actresses may be filling civil charges and may stop the movie on their own.

Truth is always a defense; how would you prove this movie portrayed things falsely? Also, slander/defamation requires proof that someone was hurt in a monetary or physical way. "You offended me" doesn't cut it (at least not in america -- in canada they have "human rights commissions" for that sort of garbage).

Fighting words only applies if the words are, strictly speaking, fighting words. Even then this has I believe been more or less replaced by a strict scrutiny test in the higher courts. see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strict_scrutiny

Incitement to riot is generally for cases where someone is trying to get a bunch of his friends to go kill someone else type situations. Saying a filmmaker is responsible for a bunch of barbarians who can't click on a different link from getting angry is, frankly, ludicrous.

Don't like the movie? Don't watch it. Lol, how hard was that.