Gigantopithecus, thanks for confusing me with one of the others! Thank you so much!
Have a good night!
Have a good night!
Originally posted by: mOeeOm
:thumbsup: BTW I'm muslim, I hope you knew when I said Watchout for Muslims, they're out to get you!
Eh, don't confuse yourself with an ordinary muslim. Or at least the ones I know of. They don't openly endorse violence against critics of Islam and support for the "freedom fighters". I am happy to know you are in the minority.
This is not a fight between religion. Rather its a conflict of cultures. 95% of those who claim to be muslim have little value of its basic principles. It is just that some people who carry out these acts call themselves muslims. Why should muslims be targetted becuase of that?
This like blaming all Americans for Bush's action. It is ironic that americans condemn muslims who support muslim militants for the simple fact that they are muslim even though that they donot agree with their beleifs and thoughts. On the other hand Americans call themselves patriotic for supporting american troops just becuase they are american even though most may not agree with their foreign policy. Sounds ridiculous to me.
Either look at muslims as a whole, or look at them as indivduals, not what suits you best.
This like blaming all Americans for Bush's action. It is ironic that americans condemn muslims who support muslim militants for the simple fact that they are muslim even though that they donot agree with their beleifs and thoughts. On the other hand Americans call themselves patriotic for supporting american troops just becuase they are american even though most may not agree with their foreign policy. Sounds ridiculous to me.
Either look at muslims as a whole, or look at them as indivduals, not what suits you best.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
- Sep 21, 2002
- 64,795
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Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: mOeeOm
:thumbsup: BTW I'm muslim, I hope you knew when I said Watchout for Muslims, they're out to get you!
Eh, don't confuse yourself with an ordinary muslim. Or at least the ones I know of. They don't openly endorse violence against critics of Islam and support for the "freedom fighters". I am happy to know you are in the minority.
no kidding. i saw his posts in other threads on that and i wasn't sure if he was a real muslim or someone trying to make them look bad. now its more clear that he's for real..and thats scary.
No. There rioting but scraming there Allah Akbar chant in the stets of Paris and other places in France.
There religius extremists who will eventually piss of enough people and get destoyed.
There religius extremists who will eventually piss of enough people and get destoyed.
I think the problem is that no one wants to admit what the real problems are. The media (as expected) are sugar coating everything going on. I would not count on the mainstream US press or the off the wall Euro agencies to utter the word - Islam when reporting of this event.
The fact is, there are a few common links between all of the protestors here...
They are Muslim.
They are chanting 'Allah Akbar' in the streets - as has been reported in multiple cases.
They are young.
They are poor.
They have been buring churches and religious schools.
Anti-semitism has been at an all time post WWII high recently.
Seems pretty obvious to me that at least one of the issues there is religion. I hate to put words in the mouths of the rioters - but it is pretty F*CKING OBVIOUS that a good deal of this mess is related to religion. Sorry, but that's a simple fact. If the truth really hurts that bad, you might want to evaluate your position in the whole scheme of things...
The fact is, there are a few common links between all of the protestors here...
They are Muslim.
They are chanting 'Allah Akbar' in the streets - as has been reported in multiple cases.
They are young.
They are poor.
They have been buring churches and religious schools.
Anti-semitism has been at an all time post WWII high recently.
Seems pretty obvious to me that at least one of the issues there is religion. I hate to put words in the mouths of the rioters - but it is pretty F*CKING OBVIOUS that a good deal of this mess is related to religion. Sorry, but that's a simple fact. If the truth really hurts that bad, you might want to evaluate your position in the whole scheme of things...
Is it? Obvious, I mean. What seems obvious is that there are bunch of people with issues, whether they are rioters or terrorists, and that in THEIR MINDS, their issues are justified by or at least tied to their religion. Is there any reason to pass judgement on the religion as a whole, or more importantly, on other people who share the same faith? I'm not defending them or their religion, I'm just wondering whether we're making too much of this. People always have some excuse for their behavior, and religion has always been a popular one, but in the end, they are mostly just excuses. Burning a church because your God wants you to is a lot better for your ego than burning a church because you're pissed off.
But, but, but, you say, people doing bad things in the name of religion seem to be mostly Muslim lately. Surely this reflects poorly on the religion, right? Maybe, but isn't it strange that Islam and most Muslims come from a specific region of the world? They share a lot of the same things outside of religion, is it possible that the region as a whole is simply troubled for reasons that have nothing to do with religion? I'm not saying this HAS to be true, but it's interesting that we're only looking at one characteristic here. Even when we're talking about 9/11, or Muslim terrorists in general, the focus is always on how they are Muslim...but a very large number of them (including bin Laden) are Saudi. Well isn't that strange, there are Muslims all over the world, but a lot of the Muslim fanatics come from that particular country. Certainly worth considering, don't you think?
I'm not saying religion can't possibly play a part in what's going on, but it seems to me that we're a few facts short of a thesis here.
Sorry, it is the common link. Logic dictates that yes, there is a relation between the rioters and their religion.
Why can't people just accept this and move on. If this is indeed the case, the solution will not be quite as easy as some think. Giving these people jobs, more welfare, etc... won't matter at this point. I fear that this very group may be too far gone and there is nothing that will bring them back to the mainstream.
Note, I never said that religion is the cause of these riots - I simply said it is a common link.
Why can't people just accept this and move on. If this is indeed the case, the solution will not be quite as easy as some think. Giving these people jobs, more welfare, etc... won't matter at this point. I fear that this very group may be too far gone and there is nothing that will bring them back to the mainstream.
Note, I never said that religion is the cause of these riots - I simply said it is a common link.
The French are racist to everyone. (uh-oh)
They invite millions of Muslims into their country
They treat them like dirt
They rebel
If you are going to treat Muslims like dirt then don't allow them into your country.
50% unemployment is just a disaster.
They invite millions of Muslims into their country
They treat them like dirt
They rebel
If you are going to treat Muslims like dirt then don't allow them into your country.
50% unemployment is just a disaster.
I didn't say there is no relation, I said that any sort of cause-effect relationship, or any attempt to paint all Muslims with the fanatic brush, makes no sense at this point.
But let me stop, what's the "so what" of your argument here? Yes, a lot of fanatics lately seem to be Muslims. So what?
Things are difficult for immigrants everyone, but much more so in Europe. In America, since the past few decades we have created much more jobs than all of Europe has. That is saying something.
Exactly, it's not just jobs either, we are generally more open to different people than almost any other country. We certainly have our faults in this area, but we're doing a lot better than most. We have a ton of Muslims in this country, and as long as we don't start treating them all like terrorists, I think we won't have any problems.
actually ya... My Iranian friends and I were having a discussion on religion, and I asked them "what if you converted to another religion while you were here in the states?" and they said they couldn't because they would never beable to return to their country because the penalty was death.
Wake up Railldog and go study your history. This is completely false, as I spent my project in a History class on Islam.
Islam spread to the world through fourmeans:
!) Violence in early Arabia. This is where the most blood shed occured, and even then cities were usually bloodless conquests. Mecca was finally taken over without rape pillage or anything near that
2) Sycronisation with other religions in the greater Mid East Area. Islam spread like a wildfire throughout much of north Africa and Iran (Most of Iran converted in something like 20-40 years or so). Many of the religions already shared a common base in which they could bridge themselves to Islam. Aryan (or Cryan) Christianity and Zoroastraniasm(sp?) already had compatable views so the switch was easy. There also was economic and financial reasons to be become Muslims
3)Spread of trade and conversion of elites, which set the groundwork for the conversion of the society. This prevailed and is especially apparant throughout all of se. asia, as well as africa.
The fourth is the fact it was a state sponsered religion from day 1. This helped because as the empire expanded (remember in those days an empire expanding didn't make it "ruthless" o r "militant". Empires were expected to expand, because if you got smaller that is usually a huge problem) muslims scholars, ulemma, and others followed quickly and spread the word.
There are things that break this pattern, but those are the exceptions, NOT the norms. I can send you an entire essay on this if you want me to.
But contrary to what you want to beleive, Islam was not largely spread by the sword~ I know it maybe contrary to your beleifs, but people may have found Islam the most viable religous, social and economic alternative of all the religions out there!
If anything we could argue christianity's strength in the "new world" is due to the fact it was literally spread by the sword
I'm not sure if Iran follows that rule, but in general and accepted Islamic Law, apostasy is punishable by death. It's essentially a type of enslavement system.
As to the question proposed, I don't think that strict Muslims along the lines of certain members of this forum would really be capable of co-existing with the rest of the world. Why would anyone think that people with strict beliefs from thousands of years ago be able to co-exist with people in 2005? I'm sure that they could have co-existed when people were wallowing around in mud, but people are generally civilized today.
Of course this also means by what you mean by co-exist....basically, people with barbaric and archaic views will not be able to co-exist with civilized and modern people, IMO.
Yeah, if you don't make too much noise when you cook for them, mow their grass, sweep their floors and guard their virgins!
You cannot coexist peacefully with a religion that has as a principle tennet of belief that nonbelievers should be killed.
Braznor
Diamond Member
- Oct 9, 2005
- 4,767
- 435
- 126
Whoa, you sir, have serious problems. You represent the typical hypocritical Islamist. You want triple standards for everything in the world, one for yourself, one for your victims and another for the bystander so that they do not misunderstand your actions and blame the 'religion of peace'
Apparently freedom of speech, faith and expression exists only for you and your kind. You can kill as much as want, treat your women like cattle, treat people of other faiths as sub-humans and you can get away with all by claiming political incorrectness when others point you your faults. Yet when the courageous amongst us do so, you would howl like praire dogs and try to run us down with prejudiced reason.
Actually I was wrong, you sir are the STUPIDEST ISLAMIST I HAVE EVER REPLIED TO. The smarter ones latleast conceal their barbarism behind a facade of political correctness, but you have no qualms exposing the true nature of your beliefs. So it is okay when people are killed when they change their faith?????
Are you nuts???? or stupid????
Many extremist religions have made that statement. In the past Christianity made that statement regarding the Muslims. One only has to check the past few years with Franklin Grahams comments. Every population has a distribution of extremists
The Koran does not mention killing infidels as being a path to heaven, nor does it ever mention the virgins.
Every religion has it's freaks that feel their only way of gaining power is to destroy another sect.
It is a fact that Christianity, Judaism, and Islam have very common roots and are similar in many respects. However, it is the twisted and power hungery nature of man and governments that have warped every message that the religion was meant to create.
The question is, as previously stated by others, can any extremist live with others?
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