Are Muslims Capable of Co-existing with the rest of the World?

dugweb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2002
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I personally know serveral Iranians that are very dear to me. I am not racist. But this is really getting ugly, especially with the riots in France, and the general trend in violence around the world. The majority of it seems to be centered around the Muslim faith :confused: Why is this?

It seems like Muslim extremists are united in destroying the free world. It's as if they are threatened or opposed to anyone but themselves. I am especially disturbed by the Australian story. These guys were competing to see who could cause the largest terror strike first.

State of Emergency in France

Sadaams defense lawyers killed

Australian Terror Plot foiled

What scares me is the trend. What are the consequences of this trend?

Not meant to be flamebait, It's something I'm honestly curious about. What's going to happen when this all comes to a head.
 

Ronstang

Lifer
Jul 8, 2000
12,493
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81
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Are you saying that the riots in France is centered around the Muslim faith?


That is what it seems like from sources inside France. We will just have to wait and see if it is actually true. From what I have read it seems that the riots are being coordinated by some Muslim clerics with ties to Al Queda. I have no way of validating that info so we will just have to see how this plays out.
 

dugweb

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 2002
3,935
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Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Are you saying that the riots in France is centered around the Muslim faith?

Although many French-born children of Arab and black African immigrants are Muslim, police say the violence is not being driven by Islamic groups.

that's from the article. My point isn't that the Muslim faith is coordinating these attacks. I know the "cause" was the two kids were electrocuted while being pursued, but it doesn't change the fact that, as the quote says, many are muslim.

All I'm asking is does a muslims system of beliefs allow the to live in harmony with those not of their faith. And if not where is it going to take us. If they are capable, why don't they?
 

mOeeOm

Platinum Member
Dec 27, 2004
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Muslims get along fine with countries that doesn't bother them, for example Israel and America starting the whole thing in mideast, etc etc. Like take Canada for example, they did nothing to Muslims and Canada is filled with Muslims, and we all get along with everyone in the community. I have yet to be personally attacked by where I am from or what religion I am, but on the forum Americans in general attack any muslim. I've had discussions about Islam with a lot of people who were just interested, they weren't out to attack us or anything they just wanted to learn.

In my university they have a whole section dedicated for Muslims to go pray and meet, like in Ramadan we all break the fast together there and anyone is invited. We have yet to be targetted by anyone...they have no reason to.

I have friends from ALL over the place, mostly white friends who are athiest and we all get along.

With Muslims, its a ''if you don't bother them, they won't bother you.'' thing imo.

All countries where freedom fighters attack the country, they have have been mistreated or been involved indirectly.

If there has been incidencts in Canada, they havn't affected me personally or I haven't heard of them. A couple of Muslim friends of mine moved to Canada because they were attacked by Americans for simply being Muslims. One of them got jailed for a month, the police kept harassing him and he said if they don't leave him alone he'll hire a lawyer and sue them, and they imprisoned him for that.
 

stateofbeasley

Senior member
Jan 26, 2004
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Muslim extremists? No.

Your average Muslim? Of course. There are lots of them in the US who are loyal, law-abiding citizens no different that anyone else.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
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Evidently some aren't. And history has plenty of examples of groups (religiously motivated or otherwise) who choose to live a seperatist lifestyle away from what they perceived as "corrupting influences" as well as those who wish to violently impose their differing views on others. For every Islamofascist blowing up a school bus in Tel Aviv, I can show you a humble Memnonite farmer living quietly in Amish Country, or a Sikh seperarist vs. a pacifist Buddhist monk, etc. The difference seems to be moral and cultural, otherwise I have difficulty seeing why those with equally pious belief systems have such different viewpoints about "live and let live."
 

envy me

Golden Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Originally posted by: dugweb
I personally know serveral Iranians that are very dear to me. I am not racist. But this is really getting ugly, especially with the riots in France, and the general trend in violence around the world. The majority of it seems to be centered around the Muslim faith :confused: Why is this?

It seems like Muslim extremists are united in destroying the free world. It's as if they are threatened or opposed to anyone but themselves. I am especially disturbed by the Australian story. These guys were competing to see who could cause the largest terror strike first.

State of Emergency in France

Sadaams defense lawyers killed

Australian Terror Plot foiled

What scares me is the trend. What are the consequences of this trend?

Not meant to be flamebait, It's something I'm honestly curious about. What's going to happen when this all comes to a head.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?...&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

If muslims (EXTREMISTS) Al Quaeda if you will, are truly responsible for what is going on France, how come their sword enemies have not been targetted??? Seems a little fishy to me. The whole, lets blame muslims/Iran/Al Queada boogeyman is getting very played out.
 

athithi

Golden Member
Mar 5, 2002
1,717
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Originally posted by: glenn1
Evidently some aren't. And history has plenty of examples of groups (religiously motivated or otherwise) who choose to live a seperatist lifestyle away from what they perceived as "corrupting influences" as well as those who wish to violently impose their differing views on others. For every Islamofascist blowing up a school bus in Tel Aviv, I can show you a humble Memnonite farmer living quietly in Amish Country, or a Sikh seperarist vs. a pacifist Buddhist monk, etc. The difference seems to be moral and cultural, otherwise I have difficulty seeing why those with equally pious belief systems have such different viewpoints about "live and let live."

Where I come from, I can show you more Sikh patriots and quite a few Buddhist fascists. In fact, Sikhs are some of the most liberal and sociable people I've seen in my life! I think Islamic militants are in a class of their own - if you really want to compare, the Crusades were probably the closest.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
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Where I come from, I can show you more Sikh patriots and quite a few Buddhist fascists. In fact, Sikhs are some of the most liberal and sociable people I've seen in my life! I think Islamic militants are in a class of their own - if you really want to compare, the Crusades were probably the closest.

Those were examples, not universal judgements. I'm not trying to favorably (or unfavorably) compare Sikhs to other groups. You could reverse the mentioned groups (or substitute different ones altogether) and the point is still the same. If it makes you feel better substitute Hassidic Jews and Mormons for the groups mentioned, or Wiccans and Wesleyans, whatever floats your boat.....
 

athithi

Golden Member
Mar 5, 2002
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Originally posted by: glenn1
Where I come from, I can show you more Sikh patriots and quite a few Buddhist fascists. In fact, Sikhs are some of the most liberal and sociable people I've seen in my life! I think Islamic militants are in a class of their own - if you really want to compare, the Crusades were probably the closest.

Those were examples, not universal judgements. I'm not trying to favorably (or unfavorably) compare Sikhs to other groups. You could reverse the mentioned groups (or substitute different ones altogether) and the point is still the same. If it makes you feel better substitute Hassidic Jews and Mormons for the groups mentioned, or Wiccans and Wesleyans, whatever floats your boat.....

Thanks for the clarification. Without this clarification, anybody reading your previous post would come to same conclusion that I did. It's not a question of it making me feel better. If you don't want to be misunderstood, the onus is on you to make your posts unambiguous. Surely, after 9558 posts and 5 years on AT, you would've realized that.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,885
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Its the young, restless and ignorant muslims we should be worried about. Like the ones rioting in France. Like the ones blowing themselves up in Palestine. I know many muslims and they are good people. They are not brainwashed and they like America for the most part. I doubt its people like them who will take up arms against anyone.

The arrogant cheese sniffers of France overlooked this problem. Surprised? Not me. The French have always been hostile to foreigners, whether they be Americans, or in this case, Arabs. When you have young, ignorant and brainwashed Arab youth with the arrogant French cheese sniffers, the results are not good. Its a miracle it didn't happen before. Its like a old train, it slowly picks up speed.

There are many problems with muslims and infidels all over the world. Be it India, Russia or the Phillipines. But again, its those few extremists messing things up for everybody. Now its time for the rest of the muslim world to rise up and set these extremists aside.

I am waiting for that day.
 

Agnostos Insania

Golden Member
Oct 29, 2005
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Originally posted by: mOeeOm

All countries where freedom fighters attack the country, they have have been mistreated or been involved indirectly.

Heh, "freedom fighters" indeed.


The arrogant cheese sniffers of France overlooked this problem. Surprised? Not me. The French have always been hostile to foreigners, whether they be Americans, or in this case, Arabs.

So hostile that they open their borders to them?
 

Sultan

Banned
Feb 21, 2002
2,297
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Originally posted by: raildogg
Its the young, restless and ignorant muslims we should be worried about. Like the ones rioting in France. Like the ones blowing themselves up in Palestine. I know many muslims and they are good people. They are not brainwashed and they like America for the most part. I doubt its people like them who will take up arms against anyone.

The arrogant cheese sniffers of France overlooked this problem. Surprised? Not me. The French have always been hostile to foreigners, whether they be Americans, or in this case, Arabs. When you have young, ignorant and brainwashed Arab youth with the arrogant French cheese sniffers, the results are not good. Its a miracle it didn't happen before. Its like a old train, it slowly picks up speed.

There are many problems with muslims and infidels all over the world. Be it India, Russia or the Phillipines. But again, its those few extremists messing things up for everybody. Now its time for the rest of the muslim world to rise up and set these extremists aside.

I am waiting for that day.

The attitudes of the West and of those on this forum is akin to the fear the Red Army created a few decades back.

Muslims have coexisted peacefully with the world. It is the rest of the world being intolerant.

50 years of oppression in Palestine, invasion of Chechnya, massacres is Bosnia, discrimination in France, all point to the intolerance of the rest of the world. Everyone has to coexist peacefully with each other, and Muslims, (or atleast I) will not accept the onus being put on us.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,062
1
0
Originally posted by: dugweb
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Are you saying that the riots in France is centered around the Muslim faith?

Although many French-born children of Arab and black African immigrants are Muslim, police say the violence is not being driven by Islamic groups.

that's from the article. My point isn't that the Muslim faith is coordinating these attacks. I know the "cause" was the two kids were electrocuted while being pursued, but it doesn't change the fact that, as the quote says, many are muslim.

All I'm asking is does a muslims system of beliefs allow the to live in harmony with those not of their faith. And if not where is it going to take us. If they are capable, why don't they?

christians rioted in los angeles a decade ago, are christians capable of maintain peace with the rest of the world? Keep in mind that it was christians who methodically conquered, colonolized, and oppressed most of the earth in one way or another, only a few decades ago.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,062
1
0
Originally posted by: raildogg
Its the young, restless and ignorant muslims we should be worried about. Like the ones rioting in France. Like the ones blowing themselves up in Palestine. I know many muslims and they are good people. They are not brainwashed and they like America for the most part. I doubt its people like them who will take up arms against anyone.

The arrogant cheese sniffers of France overlooked this problem. Surprised? Not me. The French have always been hostile to foreigners, whether they be Americans, or in this case, Arabs. When you have young, ignorant and brainwashed Arab youth with the arrogant French cheese sniffers, the results are not good. Its a miracle it didn't happen before. Its like a old train, it slowly picks up speed.

There are many problems with muslims and infidels all over the world. Be it India, Russia or the Phillipines. But again, its those few extremists messing things up for everybody. Now its time for the rest of the muslim world to rise up and set these extremists aside.

I am waiting for that day.
:roll:


i can't take any argument seriously that involves the worlds "cheese sniffer". grow up.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,885
569
126
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: dugweb
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Are you saying that the riots in France is centered around the Muslim faith?

Although many French-born children of Arab and black African immigrants are Muslim, police say the violence is not being driven by Islamic groups.

that's from the article. My point isn't that the Muslim faith is coordinating these attacks. I know the "cause" was the two kids were electrocuted while being pursued, but it doesn't change the fact that, as the quote says, many are muslim.

All I'm asking is does a muslims system of beliefs allow the to live in harmony with those not of their faith. And if not where is it going to take us. If they are capable, why don't they?

christians rioted in los angeles a decade ago, are christians capable of maintain peace with the rest of the world? Keep in mind that it was christians who methodically conquered, colonolized, and oppressed most of the earth in one way or another, only a few decades ago.

Nice attempt at attacking christianty. Umm how are those rioters Christian? LA is very diverse place last I checked! Keep in mind that many parts Islam have been spread by the use of the sword and traitors usually get killed. Nice way of keeping people within your religion, huh!

We live in the modern world, catch up with the rest of us.
 

mOeeOm

Platinum Member
Dec 27, 2004
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Originally posted by: raildogg Keep in mind that many parts Islam have been spread by the use of the sword and traitors usually get killed. Nice way of keeping

''traitors usually get killed.''....uh huh....keep going?
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,062
1
0
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: dugweb
Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Are you saying that the riots in France is centered around the Muslim faith?

Although many French-born children of Arab and black African immigrants are Muslim, police say the violence is not being driven by Islamic groups.

that's from the article. My point isn't that the Muslim faith is coordinating these attacks. I know the "cause" was the two kids were electrocuted while being pursued, but it doesn't change the fact that, as the quote says, many are muslim.

All I'm asking is does a muslims system of beliefs allow the to live in harmony with those not of their faith. And if not where is it going to take us. If they are capable, why don't they?

christians rioted in los angeles a decade ago, are christians capable of maintain peace with the rest of the world? Keep in mind that it was christians who methodically conquered, colonolized, and oppressed most of the earth in one way or another, only a few decades ago.

Nice attempt at attacking christianty. Umm how are those rioters Christian? LA is very diverse place last I checked! Keep in mind that many parts Islam have been spread by the use of the sword and traitors usually get killed. Nice way of keeping people within your religion, huh!

We live in the modern world, catch up with the rest of us.

lol, maybe you should look at the history and spread of christianity. maybe if christians used the same methods (which they did) for a while, christianity might not be losing members across the developed world.

Most americans, for now, are christian, as in a vast majority of them. I guarantee you that at least as many of the rioters in LA were christians as the rioters in france are muslim.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
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Blah blah blah.

Did we really need another one of these threads?
 

Gigantopithecus

Diamond Member
Dec 14, 2004
7,665
0
71
The question of the title should read, "Are fundamentalist zealots of any religion capable of co-existing with the rest of the world?"

I simply know way too many folks of too many faiths to think that any one particular faith is incapable of existing with the rest of the world. I know Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Shintoists, Taoists etc. who are good people. I know Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Shintoists, Taoists etc. who are not good people.

Seriously, some of you who post on this board sound like you've never even seen someone who doesn't look & think exactly like you.

The riots occurring in France aren't fueled by Islam. They're fueled by immigrants who are subjected to rather abysmal discrimination by the French. France has no anti-discrimination laws like the US - it's perfectly legal for French businesses to deny mortgages to Muslims, it's legal for a French employer to deny a job to a Muslim for just that reason.

How, exactly, does one go about integrating into a society that opens its borders but nothing else to you?

The irony of this all is we need look back only to the 1920s and 1930s to see the French doing the same basic thing to the Jews.

Originally posted by: mOeeOm
Watchout for Muslims, they're out to get you!

As long as they're out to get me kibbe, hashwi, or shawarma, and possibly some maamoul, no problem.

Originally posted by: mOeeOm
Muslims get along fine with countries that doesn't bother them, for example Israel and America starting the whole thing in mideast, etc etc.

Hey now, England and France that are responsible for the mess in the Middle East.


Originally posted by: mOeeOm
but on the forum Americans in general attack any muslim. I've had discussions about Islam with a lot of people who were just interested, they weren't out to attack us or anything they just wanted to learn.

That's because most Americans are very isolated, most places in the US are very white & very Christian. They don't understand Islam because all they know about Islam is the type of Islam advocated by Osama bin Laden and the Ayatollahs of Iran - the type that made itself very relevant to America by attacking us. Americans don't hear about how democracy works in Turkey, or how capitalism works in Dubai.

Most Americans have never met a Lebanese family that has established a successful family-run business like any other immigrant family, be they Italian, Greek, or whatever. Further, most Americans don't realize Islam is just as diverse as Judaism or Christianity, with crazy conservatives and radical liberals that make a lot of noise, but a lot of middle of the road folks who get up, send their kids off to school, go to work, come home, pay taxes, obey the law, etc.

It's easy to hate someone you've never met and know nothing about - except what the media & politicians tell you. It's hard to hate people you know.

Originally posted by: raildogg
We live in the modern world, catch up with the rest of us.

Aren't you an advocate of teaching intelligent design in the science classrooms of public schools?


 

Gigantopithecus

Diamond Member
Dec 14, 2004
7,665
0
71

The question of the title should read, "Are fundamentalist zealots of any religion capable of co-existing with the rest of the world?"

I simply know way too many folks of too many faiths to think that any one particular faith is incapable of existing with the rest of the world. I know Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Shintoists, Taoists etc. who are good people. I know Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Shintoists, Taoists etc. who are not good people.

Seriously, some of you who post on this board sound like you've never even seen someone who doesn't look & think exactly like you.

The riots occurring in France aren't fueled by Islam. They're fueled by immigrants who are subjected to rather abysmal discrimination by the French. France has no anti-discrimination laws like the US - it's perfectly legal for French businesses to deny mortgages to Muslims, it's legal for a French employer to deny a job to a Muslim for just that reason.

How, exactly, does one go about integrating into a society that opens its borders but nothing else to you?

The irony of this all is we need look back only to the 1920s and 1930s to see the French doing the same basic thing to the Jews.

Originally posted by: mOeeOm
Watchout for Muslims, they're out to get you!

As long as they're out to get me kibbe, hashwi, or shawarma, and possibly some maamoul, no problem.

Originally posted by: mOeeOm
Muslims get along fine with countries that doesn't bother them, for example Israel and America starting the whole thing in mideast, etc etc.

Hey now, England and France are responsible for the mess in the Middle East. The US just inherited the problem from them after their dominion collapsed and we became the world's only superpower.


Originally posted by: mOeeOm
but on the forum Americans in general attack any muslim. I've had discussions about Islam with a lot of people who were just interested, they weren't out to attack us or anything they just wanted to learn.

That's because most Americans are very isolated, most places in the US are very white & very Christian. They don't understand Islam because all they know about Islam is the type of Islam advocated by Osama bin Laden and the Ayatollahs of Iran - the type that made itself very relevant to America by attacking us. Americans don't hear about how democracy works in Turkey, or how capitalism works in Dubai.

Most Americans have never met a Lebanese family that has established a successful family-run business like any other immigrant family, be they Italian, Greek, or whatever. Further, most Americans don't realize Islam is just as diverse as Judaism or Christianity, with crazy conservatives and radical liberals that make a lot of noise, but a lot of middle of the road folks who get up, send their kids off to school, go to work, come home, pay taxes, obey the law, etc.

It's easy to hate someone you've never met and know nothing about - except what the media & politicians tell you. It's hard to hate people you know.

Originally posted by: raildogg
We live in the modern world, catch up with the rest of us.

Aren't you an advocate of teaching intelligent design in the science classrooms of public schools?

 

mOeeOm

Platinum Member
Dec 27, 2004
2,588
0
0
Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
The question of the title should read, "Are fundamentalist zealots of any religion capable of co-existing with the rest of the world?"

I simply know way too many folks of too many faiths to think that any one particular faith is incapable of existing with the rest of the world. I know Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Shintoists, Taoists etc. who are good people. I know Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Shintoists, Taoists etc. who are not good people.

Seriously, some of you who post on this board sound like you've never even seen someone who doesn't look & think exactly like you.

The riots occurring in France aren't fueled by Islam. They're fueled by immigrants who are subjected to rather abysmal discrimination by the French. France has no anti-discrimination laws like the US - it's perfectly legal for French businesses to deny mortgages to Muslims, it's legal for a French employer to deny a job to a Muslim for just that reason.

How, exactly, does one go about integrating into a society that opens its borders but nothing else to you?

The irony of this all is we need look back only to the 1920s and 1930s to see the French doing the same basic thing to the Jews.

Originally posted by: mOeeOm
Watchout for Muslims, they're out to get you!

As long as they're out to get me kibbe, hashwi, or shawarma, and possibly some maamoul, no problem.

Originally posted by: mOeeOm
Muslims get along fine with countries that doesn't bother them, for example Israel and America starting the whole thing in mideast, etc etc.

Hey now, England and France that are responsible for the mess in the Middle East.


Originally posted by: mOeeOm
but on the forum Americans in general attack any muslim. I've had discussions about Islam with a lot of people who were just interested, they weren't out to attack us or anything they just wanted to learn.

That's because most Americans are very isolated, most places in the US are very white & very Christian. They don't understand Islam because all they know about Islam is the type of Islam advocated by Osama bin Laden and the Ayatollahs of Iran - the type that made itself very relevant to America by attacking us. Americans don't hear about how democracy works in Turkey, or how capitalism works in Dubai.

Most Americans have never met a Lebanese family that has established a successful family-run business like any other immigrant family, be they Italian, Greek, or whatever. Further, most Americans don't realize Islam is just as diverse as Judaism or Christianity, with crazy conservatives and radical liberals that make a lot of noise, but a lot of middle of the road folks who get up, send their kids off to school, go to work, come home, pay taxes, obey the law, etc.

It's easy to hate someone you've never met and know nothing about - except what the media & politicians tell you. It's hard to hate people you know.

Originally posted by: raildogg
We live in the modern world, catch up with the rest of us.

Aren't you an advocate of teaching intelligent design in the science classrooms of public schools?

:thumbsup: BTW I'm muslim, I hope you knew when I said Watchout for Muslims, they're out to get you! :)