Are Monster Cables overpriced?

[spidey07]

Somebody asked so I'll post my stereo and why cables have an impact.

Martin Logan request speakers (want the prodigy badly)
2x Aragon 8008b amps in a vertical bi-amp
Adcom 750 pre
Sony 999es SACD player

With my front end components and the room treatments I've done there is really nothing more I can do to improve the sound without spending a heck of a lot of money. So like I said I've done single blind tests where my wife will swap interconnects and speaker wires for me (she hates when I ask her to do that!) and have identified the cables quite eaisly.

All I can say is I've been into this hobby for 20 years and had at least a dozen speakers/amps/pre-s/sources. So my posting comes from first hand experience.

Just the fact that there is such heated/polarized debate on cables should make one think there is no "right" answer.

Check out www.martinloganowners.com or www.audioasylum.com for different view points. AVSforum is a pretty poor place for audio as it is over run by SVS and rocket speakers and others without much experience with hi-fi.

 

[glugglug]

Some of the stores here sell Monster branded "High speed internet connection cables".

Basically they are florescent colored 6' and 12' phone cords. I've seen them priced at $80.00

Whoever said they are marked up 300.0% still needs to move the decimal a couple more places to the right.

 

80 bucks for a colored piece of cat5....
Hot business...

 

[glugglug]

Not cat5. Just a regular phone cord to plug into your 56K.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: spidey07

John Dunlavy credible on speaker cables? I don't think so. He is a great speaker designer. But anyway speaker cables have the LEAST affect. Interconnects and power cables are more noticible.

Oh, how's his company doing since his new found revalation?

Single blind tests are performed with the subject (me) unaware of any change in the system while they are out of the room and the tester changes or doesn't change one component. Testee then attempts to pick if component was changed or not by listening for 5 minutes or so. The speaker cables were the hardest for me to nail and took a little longer. But I'll have to admit my speakers are incredibly picky about inductance and capacitance as the speaker itself offers a capacitive load and impedance of 1 ohm. Otherwise 12 gauge is fine.

Have fun and no need to pick on me. I have just really been into this stuff for 20 years and hear the same arguments from both sides ad nausem. In the end nobody changes their minds.

And a DBT also proves that coke and pepsi taste the same so I have little faith in them.

yeah, you need to match your cables to your speakers properly so that you don't have electrical signals bouncing off the connections between the component and the cable but thats about it. most cable manufacturers probably don't make things for specific speakers and most people aren't going to have any clue about that. but beyond that theres really no point to exotic cabling, especially for speakers.

 

[Marauder-]

Originally posted by: SammySon
80 bucks for a colored piece of cat5....
Hot business...

sick... Anyone wanna buy one off me? I'd only charge 40 bux.

You gotta hand it to their marketing... everyone has heard of Monster Cable.

 

[TheWart]

the ones i've used have been good, but still cost too much.

 

[mchammer187]

if you think monster cable is overpriced

check here http://www.bettercables.com/bettercablesdotcom/

 

[ROTC1983]

Originally posted by: tweakmm
YES!

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: spidey07
Somebody asked so I'll post my stereo and why cables have an impact. Martin Logan request speakers (want the prodigy badly) 2x Aragon 8008b amps in a vertical bi-amp Adcom 750 pre Sony 999es SACD player With my front end components and the room treatments I've done there is really nothing more I can do to improve the sound without spending a heck of a lot of money. So like I said I've done single blind tests where my wife will swap interconnects and speaker wires for me (she hates when I ask her to do that!) and have identified the cables quite eaisly. All I can say is I've been into this hobby for 20 years and had at least a dozen speakers/amps/pre-s/sources. So my posting comes from first hand experience. Just the fact that there is such heated/polarized debate on cables should make one think there is no "right" answer. Check out www.martinloganowners.com or www.audioasylum.com for different view points. AVSforum is a pretty poor place for audio as it is over run by SVS and rocket speakers and others without much experience with hi-fi.

You have a nice system. I also am into SACD myself. I'm sure that cables make a big difference in your system as you stated. I just wish that they weren't so expensive sometimes.

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: mchammer187
if you think monster cable is overpriced check here http://www.bettercables.com/bettercablesdotcom/

The stuff at better cables is what audiophiles call 'budget-priced' cables.

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: jaeger66

Originally posted by: Ornery
I stumbled onto this Wonderful Wire Hype Post by a guy in the Audio Review message boards that goes by the handle "A"."Before you buy any expensive wires..."

Well, I'm convinced. It's on the Internet, so it must be true. Right?

That means I shouldn't listen to you. Right?

 

[Howard]

Originally posted by: jaeger66

Originally posted by: OS



Ugh, this is that retarded "how it performs" instead of what you can measure argument. I don't see how that sort of argument is any better than superstition.

If car A can travel at 75MPH and car B can travel at 75MPH, does that mean that cars A and B are the same?

What's your definition of a car?

 

[stev0]

Originally posted by: tweakmm
YES!

yep. i just ordered all the cables i need to hook up my htpc, all of which are monster cable.

 

[mchammer187]

Originally posted by: sxr7171

Originally posted by: mchammer187
if you think monster cable is overpriced check here http://www.bettercables.com/bettercablesdotcom/

The stuff at better cables is what audiophiles call 'budget-priced' cables.

i just dont see how anyone can afford to pay $30 - 100 per foot on cables

imo if cables are going to cost hat much your system better be worth 70K +

 

There is no discernable sound quality difference between moster cables and other cables.. PERIOD

It was suckers like you guys who made kids like me LOTS of cash when I worked at Guitar Center.

"Oh, sir, you definatly need some high quality quadruple wrapped, mesh hand woven super dooper gold plated, platinum tipped, low impedance uber cable"

 

[alkemyst]

monster cables are overpriced...they are the 'name' everyone knows like Bose....doesn't mean they suck, but you can do way better for much less.

Check out sounddomain.com and other car audio sites for dirt cheap interconnects. I got a pair of $75+ StreetWire RCA's on close out for $15.

 

[sxr7171]

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

Originally posted by: mchammer187

Originally posted by: sxr7171

Originally posted by: mchammer187 if you think monster cable is overpriced check here http://www.bettercables.com/bettercablesdotcom/

The stuff at better cables is what audiophiles call 'budget-priced' cables.

i just dont see how anyone can afford to pay $30 - 100 per foot on cables imo if cables are going to cost hat much your system better be worth 70K +

The most they had was around $19 a foot. If you have a $3000 system the Blue Truth at $269 for a 7 foot pair is a good price if it performs as well as they say it does, the sad thing is that sometimes you need to spend more to do justice to certain $3000 systems. Certain systems do very well with certain cables, and the cost of those cables that you feel brings out the best in your particular system should be factored into the overall cost. It's all a matter of getting the best sound for the money, and sometimes you get better sound from a system with more allocation for the cables - in other words cheaper electronics with the better cables can sound better than more expensive equipment with cheaper cables. Its all in the listening. Everyone if entitled to their opinion of what a particular cable is worth to them. </BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: sxr7171
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

Originally posted by: mchammer187

Originally posted by: sxr7171

Originally posted by: mchammer187 if you think monster cable is overpriced check here http://www.bettercables.com/bettercablesdotcom/

The stuff at better cables is what audiophiles call 'budget-priced' cables.

i just dont see how anyone can afford to pay $30 - 100 per foot on cables imo if cables are going to cost hat much your system better be worth 70K +

The most they had was around $19 a foot. If you have a $3000 system the Blue Truth at $269 for a 7 foot pair is a good price if it performs as well as they say it does, the sad thing is that sometimes you need to spend more to do justice to certain $3000 systems. Certain systems do very well with certain cables, and the cost of those cables that you feel brings out the best in your particular system should be factored into the overall cost. It's all a matter of getting the best sound for the money, and sometimes you get better sound from a system with more allocation for the cables - in other words cheaper electronics with the better cables can sound better than more expensive equipment with cheaper cables. Its all in the listening. Everyone if entitled to their opinion of what a particular cable is worth to them. </BLOCKQUOTE>

*tear*

the </BLOCKQUOTE> is what made that sentence, IMHO. well put.

 

[Shockwave]

Cables make no difference themselves. Anyone who says otherwise is, to be blunt, an idiot and a blind fool. They'll preach, but get nowhere. Why do i say this? Theres a 10,000 dollar cable challange that NO ONE has ever won if you can tell the difference between cables. So, as usual, people SAY they hear a difference, but no one steps up for the bet. Why? You tell me........

Noise rejection is another matter entirely.

 

[StageLeft]

It's all about the cables. I'll take a $1500 stereo with $900 in cables over a $2000 stereo with $400 in cables any day

 

[Marauder-]

Originally posted by: mchammer187

Originally posted by: sxr7171

Originally posted by: mchammer187
if you think monster cable is overpriced check here http://www.bettercables.com/bettercablesdotcom/

The stuff at better cables is what audiophiles call 'budget-priced' cables.

i just dont see how anyone can afford to pay $30 - 100 per foot on cables

imo if cables are going to cost hat much your system better be worth 70K +

Yeah - they're expensive but costwise they would outperform their Monster equivalents. I'm not advocating BetterCables - but there are tons of sites that'll teach you how to make quality Belden/Canare cables for a fraction of the cost. BetterCables is for people that know about those kind of cables but figure that their time is more valuable then learning how to make the cables and acquiring all the tools needed.

Better video cables DO however make a difference. Video takes up more of the bandwidth than the negligible audio bandwidth signal sent over speaker wire.

 

[GoSharks]

posting for a friend:

I believe Monster Cables are overpriced. But I say that because I think you should spend a bit more and go for brands that outclass Monster. It?s not as effective for HT (compressed audio/video, not very musically-intensive), but it?s very important for serious music. Analog music signals are in effect *infinite* bandwidth, in the audiophile world.



I own an "entry level" stereo with Definitive Tech BP8 towers, a Denon DRA-685 stereo receiver, fed by a Yamaha CDC685 changer and my computer with a M-Audio Delta DiO (i paid about 1500, off ebay mostly; total MSRP including cables is around 2200), and each of my cable purchases have made great differences (MIT T3 interconnects (70$, sale 35$) DH-Labs custom interconnects (62$ +SH--these are a VERY good value btw), and Wireworld Solstice 3+ (~200$, ebay 95 +SH). Switiching interconnects for the CD>receiver run from radioshack cables to the MIT T3's (overpriced) seriously surprised me--I immediately believed the effect of cabling--and it only got better with burn-in. Switching from the MIT T3 to the DH-Labs was similarly astounding--I couldn't wipe the smile off my face (the retail DH Labs BL1 costs around 100; a good value as it is. The custom ones i bought from www.moon-audio.com (55$) are wonderful). My room has been arranged for good acoustics short of true acoustic insulation, and I'm a pretty experienced listener (I spend a LOT of time listening to music of all kinds). Good cables will really bring out detail and imaging and give your system transparency, and your system needs them to work to its full potential. Don't worry about it if your (stereo) system costs less than 1k. If you are a music enthusiast who listens to well-recorded music, you WILL notice a different though. Detail is transients in the pluck of a string or the quick rasp when a violinist changes direction in his bowing, it's also the high-frequency sheen in cymbals which give it body (and in very good systems, can tell the listener what brand they are). Imaging refers to the conviction with which you can point at an instrument within the effective soundstage. High-end will convey space between all the instruments even in an orchestral recording with dozens of musicians, or in small groups, will convey a natural *size* for the instrument. It's a sense of involvement. Forget pop recordings, i'm talking about serious recordings, where the methodology is to preserve the entire spirit of the music, not to make it sound good on cheap boomboxes. Transparency is the conviction of how well your speakers disappear; how far the soundstage extend behind and in front of your speakers, and how complete the image is.



I'm no electrical engineer (yet), but my understanding is that the aspect of cabling that degrades signal is cable capacitance, which results in incorrect phase and timing on a level that will lessen quality on good systems. The capacitance comes from the metal itself (both inherently, and because electrons tend to flow more freely on the outer regions of the conductor--skin effect--and less freely in the center, muddying the signal-- the situation is complicated by stranded cables), and from the insulation. Steps may be taken to minimize this by metallurgy (ex. audioquest) or by coating small-gauge strands individually (ex. wireworld) or adding additional circuitry (ex. MIT cables--I don't really like this approach though). Different insulations have different dielectric properties too; PVC sucks up and delays current, while Teflon is very non-intrusive. Steps to reduce interference and noise can help lower the inherent noise floor of the system, which results in a more natural and lively presentation--conductor arrangements like litz (canare) coax/dual coax (wireworld) other braids (kimber) and very fine regular shielding work.



Cables do cost a lot; some of them are worth the price and some aren't. Some people spend upwards of 15k on a pair of high-end cables. Because just a bit more of anything can change your listening experience. If you care. What people don't realize is that cables are a component, not an accesory

 

[Conky]

Originally posted by: HappyCracker
Well, question then: What kind of systems are you guys running with these cables? I didn't put mine in 'system rigs' because it's overclocked too much jk I'm running a NAD C370 integrated, C270 power amp, both in bridge mode (1 to each speaker), and the C541 cd player. As far as cables go, I'm using the same ones I got when I bought the whole deal, so I can't personally vouch for differences in cabling. When I got rid of an older Yamaha CD player, I did notice a big difference there, as the NAD is smoother, but that's beside the point. I wish stores had a 'try it for a few days' policy, because this crap is so expensive, once you buy it, you're sorta stuck. It won't sound the same when you take it home as opposed to when you hear it in the store. I've moved this thing to 5 different rooms over the course of the past two years and each time it never fails to amaze me as to how different it sounds. I fear this is the speakers and the acoustics of the room however. I do know these amps are extremely transparent. Not that I'm a big Metallica fan (sellouts), but their black album sounds somewhat harsh and tinny, and it's not the system. I don't think cables would be able to change the way a CD sounds enough to kill that. One rule I've always heard is: buy good interconnects, speaker cables don't matter so much, just get a big enough gauge. I don't mean to inflame anyone with this, hope I didn't. And I'm out.

I've got an old NAD integrated receiver(I've has it so long I forgot the model, I can go down to my basement and check it and report back tomorrow ) rated at 40w per channel and with the Monster Cables hooked up to a set of small Infinity speakers on one set of outputs and a Cerwin Vega system with a subwoofer on the other set of outputs. I know audiophiles tend to turn their noses up at these particular speaker systems but all of my musician friends are astounded by the clarity and range of the CW satellite and subwoofer setup coming thru the monster cable from the huge bandwidth capable NAD receiver. Why fix what ain't broke?

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: GOSHARKS
posting for a friend:

I believe Monster Cables are overpriced. But I say that because I think you should spend a bit more and go for brands that outclass Monster. It?s not as effective for HT (compressed audio/video, not very musically-intensive), but it?s very important for serious music. Analog music signals are in effect *infinite* bandwidth, in the audiophile world. I own an "entry level" stereo with Definitive Tech BP8 towers, a Denon DRA-685 stereo receiver, fed by a Yamaha CDC685 changer and my computer with a M-Audio Delta DiO (i paid about 1500, off ebay mostly; total MSRP including cables is around 2200), and each of my cable purchases have made great differences (MIT T3 interconnects (70$, sale 35$) DH-Labs custom interconnects (62$ +SH--these are a VERY good value btw), and Wireworld Solstice 3+ (~200$, ebay 95 +SH). Switiching interconnects for the CD>receiver run from radioshack cables to the MIT T3's (overpriced) seriously surprised me--I immediately believed the effect of cabling--and it only got better with burn-in. Switching from the MIT T3 to the DH-Labs was similarly astounding--I couldn't wipe the smile off my face (the retail DH Labs BL1 costs around 100; a good value as it is. The custom ones i bought from www.moon-audio.com (55$) are wonderful). My room has been arranged for good acoustics short of true acoustic insulation, and I'm a pretty experienced listener (I spend a LOT of time listening to music of all kinds). Good cables will really bring out detail and imaging and give your system transparency, and your system needs them to work to its full potential. Don't worry about it if your (stereo) system costs less than 1k. If you are a music enthusiast who listens to well-recorded music, you WILL notice a different though. Detail is transients in the pluck of a string or the quick rasp when a violinist changes direction in his bowing, it's also the high-frequency sheen in cymbals which give it body (and in very good systems, can tell the listener what brand they are). Imaging refers to the conviction with which you can point at an instrument within the effective soundstage. High-end will convey space between all the instruments even in an orchestral recording with dozens of musicians, or in small groups, will convey a natural *size* for the instrument. It's a sense of involvement. Forget pop recordings, i'm talking about serious recordings, where the methodology is to preserve the entire spirit of the music, not to make it sound good on cheap boomboxes. Transparency is the conviction of how well your speakers disappear; how far the soundstage extend behind and in front of your speakers, and how complete the image is. I'm no electrical engineer (yet), but my understanding is that the aspect of cabling that degrades signal is cable capacitance, which results in incorrect phase and timing on a level that will lessen quality on good systems. The capacitance comes from the metal itself (both inherently, and because electrons tend to flow more freely on the outer regions of the conductor--skin effect--and less freely in the center, muddying the signal-- the situation is complicated by stranded cables), and from the insulation. Steps may be taken to minimize this by metallurgy (ex. audioquest) or by coating small-gauge strands individually (ex. wireworld) or adding additional circuitry (ex. MIT cables--I don't really like this approach though). Different insulations have different dielectric properties too; PVC sucks up and delays current, while Teflon is very non-intrusive. Steps to reduce interference and noise can help lower the inherent noise floor of the system, which results in a more natural and lively presentation--conductor arrangements like litz (canare) coax/dual coax (wireworld) other braids (kimber) and very fine regular shielding work. Cables do cost a lot; some of them are worth the price and some aren't. Some people spend upwards of 15k on a pair of high-end cables. Because just a bit more of anything can change your listening experience. If you care. What people don't realize is that cables are a component, not an accesory

Your buddy knows what he's talking about. Well put.