Are dream sequences occuring in real time?

[m1ldslide1]

There was an example in Freud's dream book about a guy who dreamed of committing a crime, going to trial, being convicted and sentenced to death by guillotine, all in great detail. Then he was taken to the guillotine, and the moment when the blade hit his neck he woke up because a board had fallen off of his headboard and hit him on the back of the neck.

I haven't had that experience, but similar enough, and I think its fair to conclude that dreams do NOT occur in real time.

 

[Oyeve]

I take Klonopin to sleep. No dreams for me.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Oyeve
I take Klonopin to sleep. No dreams for me.

every night? that could be bad after a while.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1
There was an example in Freud's dream book about a guy who dreamed of committing a crime, going to trial, being convicted and sentenced to death by guillotine, all in great detail. Then he was taken to the guillotine, and the moment when the blade hit his neck he woke up because a board had fallen off of his headboard and hit him on the back of the neck.

I haven't had that experience, but similar enough, and I think its fair to conclude that dreams do NOT occur in real time.

yes, but it doesnt make sense that we can sleep walk at normal speeds, I can see my dog maing motions with all 4 legs in a motion which suggests walking. so arent they experiencing a dream at real time?

also last night, i had a dream I had football practice and I was running A LOT. this morning i woke up sweating everywhere. (no i didnt piss myself, dont get any ideas) I dont normally sweat like this in these sleeping conditions, so i wasnt just hot, i must have moved in my bed thinking i was running.


sorry typos, im on a phone

 

[Triumph]

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1
There was an example in Freud's dream book about a guy who dreamed of committing a crime, going to trial, being convicted and sentenced to death by guillotine, all in great detail. Then he was taken to the guillotine, and the moment when the blade hit his neck he woke up because a board had fallen off of his headboard and hit him on the back of the neck.

I haven't had that experience, but similar enough, and I think its fair to conclude that dreams do NOT occur in real time.

Isn't that a lot like the movie Total Recall, then? You don't actually visit any of the places that are advertised, you are implanted with the memory of having visited exotic places and done exotic things. And so the dream situation mentioned above would really only be possible in two situations: one that you dreamt (sp?) the entire episode in the fraction of a second that it took for the board to fall, inferring that your body somehow recognized the impending impact and conjured up a story to align itself to real world events. Or two, that your brain conjured up the memory after the board event happened, because your brain had no prior knowledge that the event would occur and could not concoct a story line to agree with reality. Or the third conclusion could be that it was just dumb luck.

 

[Oyeve]

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Oyeve
I take Klonopin to sleep. No dreams for me.

every night? that could be bad after a while.

Most every night. I'm very hyper. Been on it for over 10 years. Supposed to take 1mg 3 times a day but take only one at night.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: Oyeve

Originally posted by: JohnCU

Originally posted by: Oyeve
I take Klonopin to sleep. No dreams for me.

every night? that could be bad after a while.

Most every night. I'm very hyper. Been on it for over 10 years. Supposed to take 1mg 3 times a day but take only one at night.

holy shit, and it hasn't lost its effectiveness yet? benzos are supposed to stop working after 4 weeks of continuous use.

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

I've had those. My grandfather died ~4 years ago, and all of the cousins were having extremely vivid dreams about him. I've had 2 since then (maybe another, though with symbols a bit more vague). Two of the cousins apparently had the identical dream. .....

I tend to think that the emotion of such dreams, especially regarding a particular person, has to do with the type of imprinting that symbol (in this case, individual person) occurred on the developing brain. We were a tight group of cousins. Growing up, a lot of that extended family life revolved around this grandfather.

I have had other grandparents and even younger family members and friends die before and after, but never such an emotional connection to a death.

I am also coming to the awareness that a lot of my earliest childhood memories may indeed have been dreams. my parents and older brother, who would theoretically have a more focused memory system during the years I was a toddler, should be able to relate some of those memories of the world that I have. They don't. Perhaps it has something to do with that lack of a full linguistic library/ understanding of the world?

Are you sure this IDENTICAL dream these 2 cousins had was merely familial brain imprinting? What else might this identical dreaming imply?

This is the kind of thoughtful response I was hoping for, Zin, and you aptly provided a good example of what I might be hinting at.

So in a similar vein, then what happens when you dream about something, and it happens soon after you wake up hours or days later?

 

[aphex]

An interesting note - My psychologist noted that most people only remember their dreams if they wake up during REM sleep (whether it be by your alarm, etc). If you just sleep until you wake up naturally you have a signficantly lower chance of remembering your dreams.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: zinfamous

I've had those. My grandfather died ~4 years ago, and all of the cousins were having extremely vivid dreams about him. I've had 2 since then (maybe another, though with symbols a bit more vague). Two of the cousins apparently had the identical dream. .....

I tend to think that the emotion of such dreams, especially regarding a particular person, has to do with the type of imprinting that symbol (in this case, individual person) occurred on the developing brain. We were a tight group of cousins. Growing up, a lot of that extended family life revolved around this grandfather.

I have had other grandparents and even younger family members and friends die before and after, but never such an emotional connection to a death.

I am also coming to the awareness that a lot of my earliest childhood memories may indeed have been dreams. my parents and older brother, who would theoretically have a more focused memory system during the years I was a toddler, should be able to relate some of those memories of the world that I have. They don't. Perhaps it has something to do with that lack of a full linguistic library/ understanding of the world?

Are you sure this IDENTICAL dream these 2 cousins had was merely familial brain imprinting? What else might this identical dreaming imply?

This is the kind of thoughtful response I was hoping for, Zin, and you aptly provided a good example of what I might be hinting at.

So in a similar vein, then what happens when you dream about something, and it happens soon after you wake up hours or days later?

I personally haven't had that happen, before. The common explanation, from what I've heard, is the typical archetypes, Jungian thing. also a bit of pre-conditioning yourself to believe what is happening actually did occur previously in a dream. I think the type of people that are easily suggestible--those that believe in horoscopes and fortune-telling and such see this more often.

As for my cousins' identical dreams, iirc the setting (beach) was identical as was the conversation. This was a few years ago, so I don't remember all the details.

EDIT: Oh, I read a little more. I didn't mean to imply that those specific dreams among the cousins were because of imprinting, but that the dreams themselves were so vivid, during and afterward, b/c of the strong relationship in life, especially at younger ages. The brain accessing stored memories buried deep into the subconscious.

Current research suggests that neurons repair themselves at a greater rate and with greater success than previously thought, even amongst the elderly. Those who experience brain trauma speak of memories that come flooding back, things they had long-forgotten become so vivid as if they are currently experiencing those events.

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: zinfamous

emmm..

what you KNOW about dreaming, or what you FEEL that you know? I think a lot of people have different experiences when it comes to dreaming. some dream in color, some do not. some remember vividly, some remember nothing. I think it's tied deep into the subconscious, has direct links to individual personalities and biochemical qualities such as hormone concentrations.

If you KNEW what dreams ARE, it would have to apply to everyone. It sounds as though you posit dreams result from nocturnal abductions and probing/implants? Perhaps that's true in your case, but I'm not so sure it can apply to the gamut. Plenty of people experience Night Tremors (terrors?), so perhaps your theories apply more towards that type of dreaming than any other. Sounds to me like a classic case of subjective imprinting: all the reading you have done more or less imprints your own perspective and situation into the issue, adding significant bias to your interpretation. which leads to self-diagnosis, often faulty.

This happens often when students are training in med-school--physicians and psychologists. You spend so much time reading about a particular disease, the training leaves you sleepless and generally unhealthy, you start interpreting you own symptoms of general fatigue as those of certain diseases that you happen to be studying, etc...

Then again, you could be eating better mushrooms than the rest of us...

....hmmmm.

Yes, if I knew what dreams ARE it would have to apply to EVERYONE. That is exactly correct. However, most people misinterpret the dreams and the dream state due to this programmed imprinting as you would call it. So any explanation or understanding of what is really happening while dreaming has to take into account that everyone is having the same experiences, though at different levels of intensity, correct?

I don't think I simply feel I know what dreams are, just because of personal dreaming experiences that happened to me, but obviously others can not possibly verify these dreams. I actually feel I KNOW what dreams really are because of these personal experiences, and hallucinogenics were not involved, lol.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: zinfamous

emmm..

what you KNOW about dreaming, or what you FEEL that you know? I think a lot of people have different experiences when it comes to dreaming. some dream in color, some do not. some remember vividly, some remember nothing. I think it's tied deep into the subconscious, has direct links to individual personalities and biochemical qualities such as hormone concentrations.

If you KNEW what dreams ARE, it would have to apply to everyone. It sounds as though you posit dreams result from nocturnal abductions and probing/implants? Perhaps that's true in your case, but I'm not so sure it can apply to the gamut. Plenty of people experience Night Tremors (terrors?), so perhaps your theories apply more towards that type of dreaming than any other. Sounds to me like a classic case of subjective imprinting: all the reading you have done more or less imprints your own perspective and situation into the issue, adding significant bias to your interpretation. which leads to self-diagnosis, often faulty.

This happens often when students are training in med-school--physicians and psychologists. You spend so much time reading about a particular disease, the training leaves you sleepless and generally unhealthy, you start interpreting you own symptoms of general fatigue as those of certain diseases that you happen to be studying, etc...

Then again, you could be eating better mushrooms than the rest of us...

....hmmmm.

Yes, if I knew what dreams ARE it would have to apply to EVERYONE. That is exactly correct. However, most people misinterpret the dreams and the dream state due to this programmed imprinting as you would call it. So any explanation or understanding of what is really happening while dreaming has to take into account that everyone is having the same experiences, though at different levels of intensity, correct?

I don't think I simply feel I know what dreams are, just because of personal dreaming experiences that happened to me, but obviously others can not possibly verify these dreams. I actually feel I KNOW what dreams really are because of these personal experiences, and hallucinogenics were not involved, lol.

really? you should eat a half-bag of mushrooms then head off to sleep.

....talk about some kick-ass dreams....

 

[yours truly]

i was tripping once on tipex thinner, and blacked out, whilst watching the tv, had an intense set of dreams. i thought around at least 20mins had passed but was surprised when i looked at the clock and only 30sec or so had passed

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: hopeless74
i was tripping once on tipex thinner, and blacked out, whilst watching the tv, had an intense set of dreams. i thought around at least 20mins had passed but was surprised when i looked at the clock and only 30sec or so had passed

A chemically induced or enhanced dream is not true natural state dreaming. You were most likely playing back some stored memory or fantasy and not actually dreaming, in the technical sense of the word. And the fact merely 30 seconds passed shows you were not in an active R.E.M. dream state, too. It is also possible your perception of time was wrong when you passed out, and you were actually unconscious for 20 minutes, too.

 

[yours truly]

you're probably right..

i forgot to mention when i came round i was covered in my own puke :/

 

[StinkyPinky]

I find sleep and dreaming fascinating. Sometimes I'll look at the clock before drifting off and it will be say midnight, and then open my eyes and it's nearly morning. And yet it just felt like 20 seconds had passed. There is zero sense of time.

Guess that's what it feels like to be dead. Creepy.

 

[SsupernovaE]

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
I find sleep and dreaming fascinating. Sometimes I'll look at the clock before drifting off and it will be say midnight, and then open my eyes and it's nearly morning. And yet it just felt like 20 seconds had passed. There is zero sense of time.

Guess that's what it feels like to be dead. Creepy.

If that's death, then it's not so bad.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
I find sleep and dreaming fascinating. Sometimes I'll look at the clock before drifting off and it will be say midnight, and then open my eyes and it's nearly morning. And yet it just felt like 20 seconds had passed. There is zero sense of time.

Guess that's what it feels like to be dead. Creepy.

I fucking hate that shit. Used to happen to me all the time when I was younger, I never felt refreshed from sleep because it seemed like I was only asleep for half a second.

 

[JohnCU]

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
I find sleep and dreaming fascinating. Sometimes I'll look at the clock before drifting off and it will be say midnight, and then open my eyes and it's nearly morning. And yet it just felt like 20 seconds had passed. There is zero sense of time.

Guess that's what it feels like to be dead. Creepy.

I fucking hate that shit. Used to happen to me all the time when I was younger, I never felt refreshed from sleep because it seemed like I was only asleep for half a second.

yeah, i hated that too. so if i have to wake up at 5 am for work, i set the alarm for 2 am so i can wake up and be like woo hoo 3 more hours of sleep. now apparently i've turned into an insomniac so i don't do that anymore but still.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: freshgeardude

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1
There was an example in Freud's dream book about a guy who dreamed of committing a crime, going to trial, being convicted and sentenced to death by guillotine, all in great detail. Then he was taken to the guillotine, and the moment when the blade hit his neck he woke up because a board had fallen off of his headboard and hit him on the back of the neck.

I haven't had that experience, but similar enough, and I think its fair to conclude that dreams do NOT occur in real time.

yes, but it doesnt make sense that we can sleep walk at normal speeds, I can see my dog maing motions with all 4 legs in a motion which suggests walking. so arent they experiencing a dream at real time?

also last night, i had a dream I had football practice and I was running A LOT. this morning i woke up sweating everywhere. (no i didnt piss myself, dont get any ideas) I dont normally sweat like this in these sleeping conditions, so i wasnt just hot, i must have moved in my bed thinking i was running.


sorry typos, im on a phone

When I watch my dog dreaming and his legs are moving like that, I don't figure that he's having a picture-perfect representation of walking around, I figure he's having an abstract of various images / experiences and his legs are simply moving in response to the mental stimuli he's experiencing. So no, I don't think they're experiencing a dream in real time. But who the hell am I to say? Hah.

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky
I find sleep and dreaming fascinating. Sometimes I'll look at the clock before drifting off and it will be say midnight, and then open my eyes and it's nearly morning. And yet it just felt like 20 seconds had passed. There is zero sense of time.

Guess that's what it feels like to be dead. Creepy.

Congratulations, you are almost half way there to figuring out what dreams really are and what physical death and the release of consciousness feels like. This is partly what dreaming is, but does not represent the entire scope of the dreaming process. The sleeping death concept is the main part of dreaming some people have a hard time grasping when I have tried to explain this to them. I guess it makes it hard to go to sleep after they think about this for a while if they leave this conflict unresolved before bed.

A large number of people die in their sleep, peacefully, with no prior physical indication they might die. And of course, a huge number of people die in their sleep from medical complications, too. But the significant sleeping deaths are the ones science can't later explain in an autopsy. Such as sudden infant deaths for no apparent physical reason. Why would an other wise healthy baby or child suddenly just die, while asleep? Could this have something to do with the dream state, and the fact the baby or child was not able to distinguish physical death from dreams and simply died and released the soul accidentally as a result? It might sound a bit far fetched, but is it? Can anyone disprove this unusual idea? No, they can't.

But this still does not fully explain dreaming, and now the real kicker is the fact I really doubt anyone else can possibly guess what else dreaming really is.

 

[Clair de Lune]

I don't know, I've had dreams that took a course of several days or months of adventure.

I had a dream where I found this secret to imminent apocalypse. I had to travel back to US by foot to inform everyone. Then it took many courses of meeting different people, developing relationships, encountering side events, etc. It was like a fucking full-scale RPG.

Inside the dream, I was sleeping, waking up, traveling and living in it for many weeks. It was so immersive and vivid, when I woke up I was stunned for a good 10 minutes. I felt like I cheated my age and took me awhile to realize all of THAT was all in just one night's dream.

Explain that. I also have many others where the time lasts few days, a week or weeks.

 

[her209]

I've had dreams within dreams. My record is 3.

 

[Clair de Lune]

I also had a dream where I KNEW I was in a dream but my sensories would feel all real. So I went around groping and sex0ring all these hot women and feeling really good while saying to them, "stfu, you're not real, you know you don't even exist. don't fool yourself."

LOL. I used to have hyperactive imagination as a teen.

 

[aesthetics]

Dreams themselves only last a few seconds.