Are Democrats not doing enough to end our involvement in Iraq?

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BMW540I6speed

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2005
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Fern said:
Not sure I'm following you regarding (a compaint about?) the Al-Marri decision.

You seem to imply it has something to do with citizens, but the scope appears to be limited to alwfully admited aliens (noncitizens). I admit I lack the time to read fully, yet it appears to me to primarily turn on the definition of an "enemy combatant".

(Also, apparently contrary to your above assertion, the court restates the President's/military's lack of authority to seize/hold and/or detain a citizen indefinately.)

Please explain,

Fern, I don't have a complaint about the decision, I applaud it...

here is the Pdf if your interested.

Also I am "not" contesting his possible guilt, put him on trial and let due process take it's course.

Although its ultimate resolution is complicated, the question raised by Al-Marri is a clear and simple one:

Does the President have the power, and/or should he have it, to arrest individuals on U.S. soil and keep them imprisoned for years and years, indefinitely, without charging them with a crime, allowing them access to lawyers or the outside world, and/or providing a meaningful opportunity to contest the validity of the charges?

Al-Marri was in the U.S. legally, studying at Bradley University, living with his wife and 5 children, and sitting at home in Peoria, Illinois when he was detained and then ultimately charged, in a court of law, with committing various crimes.

He was set to have a trial in July 2003 when the President suddenly and unilaterally decreed him to be an "enemy combatant," ordered him put into military custody, had his trial cancelled, and then proceeded to imprison him for the next four years, including many months where he was denied any contact at all with the outside world, including lawyers, all without charging him with any crime.

Anyone who objects to the court's decision, and particularly anyone who seeks to vest the President with powers of indefinite, due-process-less military detention of individuals on U.S. soil - is, by definition, advocating nothing less than the establishment of martial law inside the U.S. That is the precise point the court made, at page 72.

"Absent suspension of the writ of habeas corpus or declaration of martial law, the Constitution simply does not provide the President the power to exercise military authority over civilians within the U.S."

The court's decision rests on the very simple proposition that Congress, when it enacted the Patriot Act, provided a very clear legal framework for the detention of suspected terrorists inside the U.S., namely, it allows temporary detention but requires due process be accorded to the accused suspect. The court rested its decision on a strict statutory reading of the law:

Thus, the Patriot Act expressly prohibits unlimited "indefinite detention", instead it requires the Attorney General either to begin "removal proceedings" or to "charge alien with a criminal offense not later than 7 days after the commencement of such detention. Id 412(a). If a terrorist alein's removal "is unlikely for the reasonably forseeable future", he may be detained for additional periods of up to six months if his release will threaten the national security of The United States. Id. but no provision of the patriot act allows for unlimited indefinite detention.

It would mean, in essence, that we have military rule, with the President as Commander-in-Chief not only over the armed forces, as the Constitution confines that power, but over everyone and everything. As the court put it:

(*[A]ssertion of military authority over civilians cannot rest on the President's power as commander-in-cheif, or on any theory of martial law*). The President cannot eliminate constitutional protections with the stroke of a pen by proclaiming a civilian, even a criminal civilian, an enemy combatant subject to indefinite military detention. Put simply, the Constitution does not allow the president to order the military to seize civilians residing within the United States and detain them indefinitly without criminal process and this is even so if he calls them "enemy combatants"

Anyone who believes that the President should have the power to order individuals inside the U.S. imprisoned forever with no charges and no process is someone who, by definition, simply does not believe in the political system of the United States.












 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
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Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
Fern said:
Not sure I'm following you regarding (a compaint about?) the Al-Marri decision.

You seem to imply it has something to do with citizens, but the scope appears to be limited to alwfully admited aliens (noncitizens). I admit I lack the time to read fully, yet it appears to me to primarily turn on the definition of an "enemy combatant".

(Also, apparently contrary to your above assertion, the court restates the President's/military's lack of authority to seize/hold and/or detain a citizen indefinately.)

Please explain,

Fern, I don't have a complaint about the decision, I applaud it...

Ah, OK I see. When I looked it up after reading your post I didn't see anything readily disagreeable about it.

-snip-

Anyone who believes that the President should have the power to order individuals inside the U.S. imprisoned forever with no charges and no process is someone who, by definition, simply does not believe in the political system of the United States.

Basically agree. The only exception I can think of now would be quite narrow and apply to foreign agents (basically foriegn military) captured here during wartime (existing law IIRC). Even so, it's a military matter and I think there are established limits regarding the duration of captivity and processes applicable. So, I'll revise my answer and say I agree that under no circumstances can the President have someone siezed "forever" with no charges or processes.