Arab League

[Moonbeam]

There is no point in discussing the strengths and weaknesses of different cultures with people who hate themselves and have identified with this or that culture as a substitute for self respect because they are unconsciously biased to see their own culture as best even where it is obvious to anybody not so identified that it is not. You run into the unconscious bigotry hidden in all of us when you threaten people's false pretense. Our violence and rage at the other is a mirror of the violence and rage we were threatened with if we failed to conform to our own family norms. The family is a subset of the tribe which is a subset of larger and larger groupings to which we have been forced to pay allegiance. Whoever we are we are the best because we were made to feel worthless if we didn't join.

 

[alien42]

this is from cnn.com:

"Arab League Secretary-General Amr Moussa called the Middle East peace process "dead." Speaking at a news conference after a meeting of Arab League foreign ministers in Cairo, Egypt, he said the peace process failed "because certain powers have given Israel every capacity to do whatever it wishes."

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
There is no point in discussing the strengths and weaknesses of different cultures with people who hate themselves and have identified with this or that culture as a substitute for self respect because they are unconsciously biased to see their own culture as best even where it is obvious to anybody not so identified that it is not.

That long run on sentence is not clear to me. 99% of the people you talk to you are of western culture or have been educated by such. Why not watch or visit an Arab channel for a change? It is you that is living in an uninformed world where the only culture taught to you is western. Why not try and learn true values of this culture?

You run into the unconscious bigotry hidden in all of us when you threaten people's false pretense. Our violence and rage at the other is a mirror of the violence and rage we were threatened with if we failed to conform to our own family norms. The family is a subset of the tribe which is a subset of larger and larger groupings to which we have been forced to pay allegiance. Whoever we are we are the best because we were made to feel worthless if we didn't join.

Im just comparing cultures. It is americans who are bigots when they think they and they above all are superior to all of humanity. They think their way of ruling people, their way of education, there society and so called freedom (Where the government can tap into its citizens' phones). They think their knowledge and thinking encompasses our minds and is above it.

In the above posts, people are clearly hinting towards the fact that they think western culture is better. I would not be surprised to know that they are Westerners.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: alien42
this is from cnn.com:

"Arab League Secretary-General Amr Moussa called the Middle East peace process "dead." Speaking at a news conference after a meeting of Arab League foreign ministers in Cairo, Egypt, he said the peace process failed "because certain powers have given Israel every capacity to do whatever it wishes."

Gosh darn, we give Israel the tools to survive a war. How horrible of us! It would have obviously been better if we weakened Israel with sanctions so the terrorists could freely kill everyone.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: alien42
this is from cnn.com:

"Arab League Secretary-General Amr Moussa called the Middle East peace process "dead." Speaking at a news conference after a meeting of Arab League foreign ministers in Cairo, Egypt, he said the peace process failed "because certain powers have given Israel every capacity to do whatever it wishes."

Gosh darn, we give Israel the tools to survive a war. How horrible of us! It would have obviously been better if we weakened Israel with sanctions so the terrorists could freely kill everyone.

America's and Israel's enemies are NOT all terrorists.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
In most. Lets start with society. We don't have 13 year old girls getting pregnant. http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=38&threadid=1889435

Well, if you want to get picky, and since I'm not sure if you're using the second tense "you" in singular or more generalized plural, yes SOME of "you" do. "You" (meaning the some who do) just sell them off into "arranged marriages" at that age for reasons varying from what other cultures consider cultural barbaric predataory sexual aggression against female children to outright financial greed.

We don't send our parents off to Nursing homes. We care for them.

Get real! ALL nursing and other faciliites for the aged and infirmed are not bad. Some are mismanaged, and others range from acceptible to excellent, just as with literally every kind of business, including care facilities ranging from hospitals to animal care facilities.

The fact is, a well run professional care facility can be the best equipped and most comfortable and humane environement for some people who need what they provide. Unless you have some kind of proof that all nursing and other facilities are unacceptable or inhumane, you're blowing ego smoke out your ass. :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

We care for people. For us, its not just about "hitting it"

Aren't you glad you're not here? If you don't like what you see, here, stay where you are, and everyone will be happier about it.

Arabic literature is superior. Take the Quran as an example. If you know arabic no english literature comes close its its eloquence. Arabic language is superior to english.

< sarcasm >

BUAHAHAHAHA! I've always wondered how you guys manage poetry and lyrics to songs when half the words you would want to rhyme are gutteral garbage that sound like you're throwing up or trying cough up a lung full of smoke or tobacco juice from your hooka.

< /sarcasm >

Seriously, language is a matter of what your ear is used to. I find English a rich, melodeous language, wide open to subtleties of meaning and delightful variations of inflection and accent that expand it's richness and beauty even further. I find French and Italian equally melodic and obviously very different from English.

Sonically, I find German, Hebrew and most eastern European languages less attractive due to their use of gutteral sounds, and I have more difficulty with Asian languages because their sound palette and alphabets are so different that they are difficult for my western ears to grasp, at least initially, but I try to learn what I can in as many languages as possible, just for the enjoyment of communicating with others. If you don't like English, you're defintely on the wrong forums. 😛

Etiqutte and manners. I need'nt say much.

Nor should you. Some of the rudest people I've ever met are Pakistanis like you. So are some of the nicest people I've ever met. Which do you intend to be?

Love of Peace and Prosperity. This argument will get nowhere though.

Nor should it, especially when one of the best examples of the exact opposite is a Pakistani criminal named, A.Q Kahn, who stole nuclear technology from the a Dutch-German and British consortium, Urenco primary enrichment facility at Almelo, Netherlands and sold it and more to such upstanding citizens of the world as Iran, Libia, North Korea and more for personal profit.

From what I've been able to find about him, many Pakistanis consider him a national hero. So much for your so-called "love of peace and prosperity." :roll:

The terrorists misrepresent Islamic values and principals.

I sure hope so. Fortunately, I know some Muslims who confirm that for me.

However, Americans and Israelis openly condone bombing of innocent civilians.

I see. So, after Al Qaeda, attacked the U.S. on 9-11 when the U.S. went into Afghanistan after them and the Taliban, who sheltered them and gave them refuge, you'd classify that as unprovoked aggression. And after Hezbollah kidnapped Israeli citizens on Israeli soil and launched missiles from Lebanon into Israel, responding by attacking Lebanese infrastructure was an unprovoked attack?

You'll need to find better logic than that to make your case.

Equality and brotherhood. There is a greater sense of brotherhood in Islam than any other culture. The true values of Islam teach Equality, charity, unity and brotherhood.

I guess that's great... as long as you've got an X and a Y chromosome to keep you in your "brotherhood." I'll take your views a little more seriously when you want to include your sisters in your "equality" and "unity." :thumbsdown:

And just so you know where I'm coming from, I do not condone everything Israel has done in the name of their own defense, and I am absolutely certain George W. Bush hijacked the issues of "national security" and "terrorism" in pursuit of his own criminal political agenda. I believe Bush should be tried for treason in our country, then shipped off to the Hague to be tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity. However, that in no way justifies the equally evil and criminal behavior of those in the Muslim world whose agression is at least the evil equal of what Bush and his cronies have done.

 

[Aimster]

Did the mods delete some of the posts in this thread?

I got my popcorn to enjoy the show and when I came back it was gone

---

Yes. Some bigoted posts by Alchemize and the responses to them were deleted.

AnandTech Moderator

 

[alchemize]

600+ honor killings in Pakistan in 2003. Enough said, nice country you got going there.

Source.

And mod - I don't think so. There was no bigotry in my post. It was called sarcasm related to honor killings.

 

[The Green Bean]

This is by far the most logical and freindly reply. Thankyou.

Well, if you want to get picky, and since I'm not sure if you're using the second tense "you" in singular or more generalized plural, yes SOME of "you" do. "You" (meaning the some who do) just sell them off into "arranged marriages" at that age for reasons varying from what other cultures consider cultural barbaric predataory sexual aggression against female children to outright financial greed.

That is not part of islamic culture. "arranged marraiges" donot exist. The male and female both have their own choice.

Get real! ALL nursing and other faciliites for the aged and infirmed are not bad. Some are mismanaged, and others range from acceptible to excellent, just as with literally every kind of business, including care facilities ranging from hospitals to animal care facilities.

The fact is, a well run professional care facility can be the best equipped and most comfortable and humane environement for some people who need what they provide. Unless you have some kind of proof that all nursing and other facilities are unacceptable or inhumane, you're blowing ego smoke out your ass. :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

Obviously different people have different POVs. I find it socially wrong.

< sarcasm >

BUAHAHAHAHA! I've always wondered how you guys manage poetry and lyrics to songs when half the words you would want to rhyme are gutteral garbage that sound like you're throwing up or trying cough up a lung full of smoke or tobacco juice from your hooka.

< /sarcasm >

Seriously, language is a matter of what your ear is used to. I find English a rich, melodeous language, wide open to subtleties of meaning and delightful variations of inflection and accent that expand it's richness and beauy even further. I find French and Italian equally melodic and obviously very different from English.

Sonically, I find German, Hebrew and most eastern European languages less attractive due to their use of gutteral sounds, and I have more difficulty with Asian languages because their sound palette and alphabets are so different that they are difficult for my western ears to grasp, at least initially, but I try to learn what I can in as many languages as possible, just for the enjoyment of communicating with others. If you don't like English, you're defintely on the wrong forums. 😛

English is an advanced and beautiful language. Im emphasising more on literature. Yes there have been great (new-modern age) English poets but Arabic (Islamic times) literature has the edge.

Nor should you. Some of the rudest people I've ever met are Pakistanis like you. So are some of the nicest people I've ever met. Which do you intend to be?

Pakistan is a blend of different cultures. I have never been intended to be rude, but to bow to anyone who thinks he/she is better than me shall be treated with the same level of respect.

I see. So, after Al Qaeda, attacked the U.S. on 9-11 when the U.S. went into Afghanistan after them and the Taliban, who sheltered them and gave them refuge, you'd classify that as unprovoked aggression. And after Hezbollah kidnapped Israeli citizens on Israeli soil and launched missiles from Lebanon into Israel, responding by attacking Lebanese infrastructure was an unprovoked attack?

Iraq had no hand in the 9-11 attacts. That was an unprovoked attack by America this time.

It does not make any better or worse than the other. They are both killing innocent civilians (regardless of who "started it"). The "who started it" argument is no better than two small kids fighting each other. It mostly ends in regret for both sides.

I guess that's great... as long as you've got an X and a Y chromosome to keep you in your "brotherhood." I'll take your views a little more seriously when you want to include your sisters in your "equality" and "unity." :thumbsdown:

Indeed they are sister and are equal and have equal rights.

And just so you know where I'm coming from, I do not condone everything Israel has done in the name of their own defense, and I am absolutely certain George W. Bush hijacked the issue of "national security" and "terrorism" in pursuit of his own criminal political agenda. I believe Bush should be tried for treason in our country, then shipped off to the Hague to be tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity. However, that in no way justifies the equally evil and criminal behavior of those in the Muslim world whose agression is at least the evil equal of what Bush and his cronies have done.

I condemn the terrorists' and Israel's actions equally. Both should be treated equally. Infact inequality shown by America between the two is a major feul for arab hatred for them. The fact that most americans think they are more important than Iraqis or Palestenians is not a very hidden one.

Peace
TGB

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: alchemize
600+ honor killings in Pakistan in 2003. Enough said, nice country you got going there.

Source.

That fact has nothing to do with THIS debate.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: alchemize
600+ honor killings in Pakistan in 2003. Enough said, nice country you got going there.

Source.

That fact has nothing to do with THIS debate.

ORLY? At least you admit it to be fact. Fact is, islamic society is the most barbaric in the world when it comes to mistreatment of women. And Pakistan is waaaay up on that list. And that has EVERYTHING to do with this debate, since women are 1/2 of any given culture.

 

[CanOWorms]

I don't really see how you can say one culture is better than the other. But if you want to talk about the ills in many Islamic cultures:

Rampant incest
Honor killings
Throwing acid at people
Rioting over ridiculous things like pics of Mohammed
Oppression of women
Rampant sectarian violence
Oppression of religious minorities
etc.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Islamic culture is superior to Western culture.

Really? In what way?

In most. Lets start with society. We don't have 13 year old girls getting pregnant. http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=38&threadid=1889435
We don't send our parents off to Nursing homes. We care for them. We care for people. For us, its not just about "hitting it"

Arabic literature is superior. Take the Quran as an example. If you know arabic no english literature comes close its its eloquence. Arabic language is superior to english.

Etiqutte and manners. I need'nt say much.

Love of Peace and Prosperity. This argument will get nowhere though. The terrorists misrepresent Islamic values and principals. However, Americans and Israelis openly condone bombing of innocent civilians.

Equality and brotherhood. There is a greater sense of brotherhood in Islam than any other culture. The true values of Islam teach Equality, charity, unity and brotherhood.

Islamic culture is extremely backwards as of this time. There is very little technological or any type of advancement that contributes anything to the world. Barbaric acts happen far more frequently as it is simply the norm there.

Arabic literature? LOL - you're harping about one thousand year old book that talks about gibberish. There are so many great works of literature from all around the world, but rarely from Islamic countries when compared to others.

Love of Peace and Prosperity? Wrong. Only peace and prosperity if you're exactly alike, not if you are different or in a diverse population.

Equality and brotherhood? Again, only if you're Islamic. Religious culture of any kind would inherently inferior to the 'West' - Islamic culture is definitely worse as it is right now. They need to modernize and become more 'liberal' in the religious interpretation if general Islamic culture is expected to be anywhere near humane and decent standards.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I don't really see how you can say one culture is better than the other. But if you want to talk about the ills in many Islamic cultures:

Rampant incest
Honor killings
Throwing acid at people
Rioting over ridiculous things like pics of Mohammed
Oppression of women
Rampant sectarian violence
Oppression of religious minorities
etc.

None of the above have anything to do with "Islamic" culture. Those are sometimes mistakenly attributed by not very educated people to Islam. Infact most of the

Originally posted by: alchemize
barbaric

ills are part of other cultures. Pakistan (India) has a history of many thousands of years. Honor killings is reminicant of the caste system (hindu system) and has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam.

There is only one Islamic culture. The others are hybrids.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I don't really see how you can say one culture is better than the other. But if you want to talk about the ills in many Islamic cultures:

Rampant incest
Honor killings
Throwing acid at people
Rioting over ridiculous things like pics of Mohammed
Oppression of women
Rampant sectarian violence
Oppression of religious minorities
etc.

None of the above have anything to do with "Islamic" culture. Those are sometimes mistakenly attributed by not very educated people to Islam. Infact most of the

Originally posted by: alchemize
barbaric

ills are part of other cultures. Pakistan (India) has a history of many thousands of years. Honor killings is reminicant of the caste system (hindu system) and has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam.

There is only one Islamic culture. The others are hybrids.

It has as much to do with Islamic culture as pregnant 13 year old girls has to do with Western culture.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I don't really see how you can say one culture is better than the other. But if you want to talk about the ills in many Islamic cultures:

Rampant incest
Honor killings
Throwing acid at people
Rioting over ridiculous things like pics of Mohammed
Oppression of women
Rampant sectarian violence
Oppression of religious minorities
etc.

None of the above have anything to do with "Islamic" culture. Those are sometimes mistakenly attributed by not very educated people to Islam. Infact most of the

Originally posted by: alchemize
barbaric

ills are part of other cultures. Pakistan (India) has a history of many thousands of years. Honor killings is reminicant of the caste system (hindu system) and has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam.

There is only one Islamic culture. The others are hybrids.

You're speaking about an ideal type of society that will never happen. The reality is that all of these problems and more are rampant in the current Islamic society and culture today. The 'Western' society doesn't call for 13 year old pregnancies (which I would also assume is more common in the Islamic culture - Hell, look at its own founder) either, but it happens at time.

You can speak about ideal culture, but then Western culture would still win as in an ideal sense, it is much more free and tolerant than any religious culture.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: alchemize
600+ honor killings in Pakistan in 2003. Enough said, nice country you got going there.

Source.

That fact has nothing to do with THIS debate.

Actually, yes, it does. You're the one who started pimping "your" culture (again, the generalized "you") as being superior and spouting off about 13 year old girls getting pregnant..

Stating that "you" personally do not believe in disgustingly misnamed traditions like "honor" killings doesn't get you off the hook. The practice is far more embedded in middle eastern cultures than in those of western nations. Get over yourself and your presumed superiority.

English is an advanced and beautiful language. Im emphasising more on literature. Yes there have been great (new-modern age) English poets but Arabic (Islamic times) literature has the edge.

That's pure ignorance. Not stupidity, just igorance, meaning a lack of knowledge. Your statement, in and of itself, shows an abject lack of knowledge of literature in the English language.

Iraq had no hand in the 9-11 attacts. That was an unprovoked attack by America this time.

Saddam was nobody's good guy, but if you want to check my posts on this forum, you'd find I agree with you about Bush's attack on Iraq.

It does not make any better or worse than the other. They are both killing innocent civilians (regardless of who "started it"). The "who started it" argument is no better than two small kids fighting each other. It mostly ends in regret for both sides.

I disagree with you 100%. In the context of actual historical circumstances, every active supporter of Al Qaeda is a sworn enemy of our nation committed to our destruction.The attack by Al Qaeda on 9-11 and many times before that, proved they are an ongoing threat to American lives, property and interests, and the only thing that would stop them is stopping them completely and unequivocally with whatever force was required to do the job, up to and including the total anhillation of those dedicated to their cause.

I notice you didn't take issue with my comments about international criminal, A.Q. Kahn and his nuclear proliferation for profit to nations and groups known to be willing to use them for hostile, aggressive and criminal purposes. :shocked:

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I don't really see how you can say one culture is better than the other. But if you want to talk about the ills in many Islamic cultures:

Rampant incest
Honor killings
Throwing acid at people
Rioting over ridiculous things like pics of Mohammed
Oppression of women
Rampant sectarian violence
Oppression of religious minorities
etc.

None of the above have anything to do with "Islamic" culture. Those are sometimes mistakenly attributed by not very educated people to Islam. Infact most of the

Originally posted by: alchemize
barbaric

ills are part of other cultures. Pakistan (India) has a history of many thousands of years. Honor killings is reminicant of the caste system (hindu system) and has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam.

There is only one Islamic culture. The others are hybrids.

It has as much to do with Islamic culture as pregnant 13 year old girls has to do with Western culture.

elaborate please

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Islamic culture is superior to Western culture.

Really? In what way?

In most. Lets start with society. We don't have 13 year old girls getting pregnant. http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=38&threadid=1889435
We don't send our parents off to Nursing homes. We care for them. We care for people. For us, its not just about "hitting it"

Arabic literature is superior. Take the Quran as an example. If you know arabic no english literature comes close its its eloquence. Arabic language is superior to english.

Etiqutte and manners. I need'nt say much.

Love of Peace and Prosperity. This argument will get nowhere though. The terrorists misrepresent Islamic values and principals. However, Americans and Israelis openly condone bombing of innocent civilians.

Equality and brotherhood. There is a greater sense of brotherhood in Islam than any other culture. The true values of Islam teach Equality, charity, unity and brotherhood.

Islamic culture is extremely backwards as of this time. There is very little technological or any type of advancement that contributes anything to the world. Barbaric acts happen far more frequently as it is simply the norm there.

Arabic literature? LOL - you're harping about one thousand year old book that talks about gibberish. There are so many great works of literature from all around the world, but rarely from Islamic countries when compared to others.

Love of Peace and Prosperity? Wrong. Only peace and prosperity if you're exactly alike, not if you are different or in a diverse population.

Equality and brotherhood? Again, only if you're Islamic. Religious culture of any kind would inherently inferior to the 'West' - Islamic culture is definitely worse as it is right now. They need to modernize and become more 'liberal' in the religious interpretation if general Islamic culture is expected to be anywhere near humane and decent standards.

You have the wrong interpretion of culture.

Learn arabic, read some of its literature. Comment aferwards. Not by using a brainwashed view just becuase someone said it!

So who gets to decide whats humane and whats not? Murderes may have a different view. Why are they targeted when they are only different?

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I don't really see how you can say one culture is better than the other. But if you want to talk about the ills in many Islamic cultures:

Rampant incest
Honor killings
Throwing acid at people
Rioting over ridiculous things like pics of Mohammed
Oppression of women
Rampant sectarian violence
Oppression of religious minorities
etc.

None of the above have anything to do with "Islamic" culture. Those are sometimes mistakenly attributed by not very educated people to Islam. Infact most of the

Originally posted by: alchemize
barbaric

ills are part of other cultures. Pakistan (India) has a history of many thousands of years. Honor killings is reminicant of the caste system (hindu system) and has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam.

There is only one Islamic culture. The others are hybrids.

It has as much to do with Islamic culture as pregnant 13 year old girls has to do with Western culture.

elaborate please

They're both ills that exist in those cultures.

If you claim that they don't have anything to do with Islamic culture, than someone else can claim that pregnant 13 year olds has nothing to do with Western culture.

Culture isn't homogenous anyways. What you view as Islamic culture is not what someone else views as Islamic culture. Same with any culture.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I don't really see how you can say one culture is better than the other. But if you want to talk about the ills in many Islamic cultures:

Rampant incest
Honor killings
Throwing acid at people
Rioting over ridiculous things like pics of Mohammed
Oppression of women
Rampant sectarian violence
Oppression of religious minorities
etc.

None of the above have anything to do with "Islamic" culture. Those are sometimes mistakenly attributed by not very educated people to Islam. Infact most of the

Originally posted by: alchemize
barbaric

ills are part of other cultures. Pakistan (India) has a history of many thousands of years. Honor killings is reminicant of the caste system (hindu system) and has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam.

There is only one Islamic culture. The others are hybrids.

You're speaking about an ideal type of society that will never happen. The reality is that all of these problems and more are rampant in the current Islamic society and culture today. The 'Western' society doesn't call for 13 year old pregnancies (which I would also assume is more common in the Islamic culture - Hell, look at its own founder) either, but it happens at time.

You can speak about ideal culture, but then Western culture would still win as in an ideal sense, it is much more free and tolerant than any religious culture.

Current culture that exists in some parts of the muslim world is agreeably barbaric. But that is not islamic culture.

Islamic culture existed and was only broken down by wetern powers. It has not been that long since Islam's glory days. And there is no reason why it will never return.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
You have the wrong interpretion of culture.

Learn arabic, read some of its literature. Comment aferwards. Not by using a brainwashed view just becuase someone said it!

So who gets to decide whats humane and whats not? Murderes may have a different view. Why are they targeted when they are only different?

Arabic literature has no cultural or any impact to the world as a whole when compared to works of literature from elsewhere.

If you are resorting to the 'Murder may not be barbaric' view, then I think you lost.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I don't really see how you can say one culture is better than the other. But if you want to talk about the ills in many Islamic cultures:

Rampant incest
Honor killings
Throwing acid at people
Rioting over ridiculous things like pics of Mohammed
Oppression of women
Rampant sectarian violence
Oppression of religious minorities
etc.

None of the above have anything to do with "Islamic" culture. Those are sometimes mistakenly attributed by not very educated people to Islam. Infact most of the

Originally posted by: alchemize
barbaric

ills are part of other cultures. Pakistan (India) has a history of many thousands of years. Honor killings is reminicant of the caste system (hindu system) and has nothing whatsoever to do with Islam.

There is only one Islamic culture. The others are hybrids.

You're speaking about an ideal type of society that will never happen. The reality is that all of these problems and more are rampant in the current Islamic society and culture today. The 'Western' society doesn't call for 13 year old pregnancies (which I would also assume is more common in the Islamic culture - Hell, look at its own founder) either, but it happens at time.

You can speak about ideal culture, but then Western culture would still win as in an ideal sense, it is much more free and tolerant than any religious culture.

Current culture that exists in some parts of the muslim world is agreeably barbaric. But that is not islamic culture.

Islamic culture existed and was only broken down by wetern powers. It has not been that long since Islam's glory days. And there is no reason why it will never return.

Oh, so we're talking about some sort of fairy tale culture. Got it.

Please describe this wonderful and mythical culture.

Again, you're speaking about an 'ideal' culture that will never happen. The ideal Western culture doesn't exist today either.

 

[The Green Bean]

Actually, yes, it does. You're the one who started pimping "your" culture (again, the generalized "you") as being superior and spouting off about 13 year old girls getting pregnant..

Stating that "you" personally do not believe in disgustingly misnamed traditions like "honor" killings doesn't get you off the hook. The practice is far more embedded in middle eastern cultures than in those of western nations. Get over yourself and your presumed superiority.

We shall get nowhere with arguing with which is better becuase it is subjective topic with everyone with their own POVs.

That's pure ignorance. Not stupidity, just igorance, meaning a lack of knowledge. Your statement, in and of itself, shows an abject lack of knowledge of literature in the English language.

Just FYI. Ive studied both and enjoyed both.

I disagree with you 100%. In the context of actual historical circumstances, every active supporter of Al Qaeda is a sworn enemy of our nation committed to our destruction.The attack by Al Qaeda on 9-11 and many times before that, proved they are an ongoing threat to American lives, property and interests, and the only thing that would stop them is stopping them completely and unequivocally with whatever force was required to do the job, up to and including the total anhillation of those dedicated to their cause.

American lives are not better than american lives. (all humans are equal)

I notice you didn't take issue with my comments about international criminal, A.Q. Kahn and his nuclear proliferation for profit to nations and groups known to be willing to use them for hostile, aggressive and criminal purposes. :shocked:

If he is a criminal, he should be investigated and try. AFAIK thats what the governemnt says its doing.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: The Green Bean
You have the wrong interpretion of culture.

Learn arabic, read some of its literature. Comment aferwards. Not by using a brainwashed view just becuase someone said it!

So who gets to decide whats humane and whats not? Murderes may have a different view. Why are they targeted when they are only different?

Arabic literature has no cultural or any impact to the world as a whole when compared to works of literature from elsewhere.

If you are resorting to the 'Murder may not be barbaric' view, then I think you lost.

Infact arabic literature does have an effect on the world as a whole.

Im just saying murder would not become sane if the majority agreed on it. That extends to all laws.