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Apple trying to stop Free streaming music and getting music removed from YouTube?

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You're right, this only exist within what the last 3 years, it just suddenly sprang up and it's piracy all over again! It's not like there's been radio for...oh wait, FM radio has been around how long? And AM even longer than that?!? What is this madness? How have the music labels not gone out of business 20 times over? It's not like they weren't complaining about piracy for decades either.

And Taylor Swift complained that streaming gave the impression that her music isn't worth anything. Um, but putting it on radio or Youtube doesn't? I don't pay anything (or at least very negligible) for it either way. Oh she's an outlier alright, but only in that because she's one of the few artists that still makes money from doing things the old label way of doing things. That's kinda the whole point. The market completely changed and yet they're just back to fighting it and blaming it for all of their ills, when there's a multitude of factors, many of which are self-inflicted, that are responsible.

But ok back to your argument. The internet. The dreaded merciless serial killer of media industries! Oh no, whatever will they do? Maybe adapt? I'm tired of these multi-billion dollar industries wallowing in their plight while they resorted to (and still do actually) ridiculous tactics to try and control and manipulate the market. Consumers are clearly speaking to them but they just refuse to fucking listen.

The biggest reason their argument is bullshit is because there's nothing at all stopping the labels from doing their own streaming services and charging what they think is fair.



What you fail to realize is music was less "made for someone" before. Now they try to hypertarget demographics and it's failing because it comes off as phony shit made to target markets and not as honest music.

Yeah, man rap is doing well because no one pirates it? Are you fucking kidding me? Rap took off because it hit the key demographic of what 13-30 year old white people. Definitely though those people never pirate anything. Weird that that's also one of the key country demographics and gave rise to Taylor Swift (and Justin Bieber, and most of the "successful" artists of recent years). Seriously, wow, your "they didn't have smartphones or computers and couldn't pirate" is one of, if not the most nonsense argument I've ever seen in any of the threads on here.

You think that's funny when that's exactly the point that's being made about why the labels aren't making money like they used to? Come on, you can't be this obtuse can you? So, a market complains that it's shrinking and people voice that they're not giving that market money because they don't like what they sell as much, so the market reacts by going even further in the direction of what people voiced they didn't like? Seriously, that's basic fucking economics, and it's exactly why people like you and the music industry fail spectacularly at understanding why the music industry isn't making 90s price fixing money any more.

Consumers: "I don't give them money any more because I don't like what they're selling"
The music industry: "damn kids with their ipods and apps, ruining everything, why can't we make as much money, I know let's keep making music worse and worse!"
"You haha, look at the idiot consumers complaining!"

Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb-dumb. Seriously fucking stupid on a level that I'd laugh if I didn't know that you seriously are too stupid to even realize just how stupid that argument is.

That has nothing to do with it. What's the point of having million dollar recording studios if they're going to ruin the music? Hey guys, check out this microphone, it's so awesome at recording, now let's smear the shit out of anything it records! It's easier than ever, in all of human history, to make a good recording. That's part of the problem. It's easier, and cheaper than ever to both record and provide these recordings to consumers, yet the quality of the recordings has actually gotten worse and the companies want to charge the same (or even more) money for them? Again, what the fuck kind of logic are you using?


The labels are going to make what sells. They follow an ever shrinking market. Its all they can do because you will never buy anything so why would they throw away money trying to get you to buy something?

Recording technology has gotten a lot better and a hobbyist can get a fundamentally different recording on his/her own then could be done in the past. And this works for a lot of styles of music. But we are leaving something behind.
 
this is totally consistent with apple's ecosystem. my new iphone doesn't include an am/fm tuner because apple wants me to pay them $1.29 per song. no joke, $1.29.

my old ipod nano has an fm tuner. do new ipods have fm or has it been killed?
 
this is totally consistent with apple's ecosystem. my new iphone doesn't include an am/fm tuner because apple wants me to pay them $1.29 per song. no joke, $1.29.

my old ipod nano has an fm tuner. do new ipods have fm or has it been killed?

most modern phones don't.
 
It really comes down to people making justifications for not paying for content/music/movies/games. No one wants to think "Hey I'm an asshole and I'm damaging all these things I truly like."

They want to think

"that industry is evil for making money and I wont give them any"

Like if the internet never existed you better believe you would be paying for shit. 🙂

Your logic is total utter and complete shit.

You want to pretend it's capitalism and people complaining are just commie hippy morons. Um, no, we're speaking with our money. More than ever we have that ability to.

That is true but not for the reason you think it is. It's because the internet has allowed for people to be exposed to exponentially more content. Now I can see just how shitty the stuff pushed by major labels is. I can even see how they've actually made quality of recordings worse and how they actually degraded the quality of musicians as well (as in they intentionally focused on hiring people less for musical talent and more for looks and marketability, and this absolutely started before the internet was popular to which kinda exposes your asswipe argument for the total failure of logic that it is).

Why on earth would I give money to companies that are doing that alone? Only a complete fucking idiot would argue that people should be paying the same money for worse quality and think that argument completely nullifies anyone saying otherwise.

The internet has been a great equalizer in that it's enabled people to be able to actually check things out and learn for themselves. It shifted the information asymmetry in a lot of markets substantially. There's a whole host of purely economic reasons that can help explain why the music industry has changed. I've tried to explain some of them in other threads but as usual I end up arguing with people who act like anyone arguing otherwise are idiot pirates trying to justify stealing content.

After all, the labels are soooo nice!
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...ing-hundreds-millions-royalties-artists.shtml
https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/74008/cd-price-fixing-suit-settled-for-143-million
 
Man. You can lead a horse to water comes to mind right now. lmao. I really dont care if you dont buy music and Im not going to spend more time on it. Just go to the movies 😉
 
I've tried to explain some of them in other threads but as usual I end up arguing with people who act like anyone arguing otherwise are idiot pirates trying to justify stealing content.

...because most of them are.

😉
 
I would bash any company doing something such as this. There's a fine line between capitalism and pure greed. That is the problem with "america" today, people seem to have forgotten what capitalism really stands for and defend dirty practices in the name of it. Then people also defend it by saying "its within the law". Everything is within the law until it isn't. When it is against the law, they find a loophole. If they can screw over someone else in the name of capitalism, they will. That is not good will, and it isn't something you shouldn't be proud to defend.

This is why there are monopolies, this is why there is a growing gap between executives and the working class. Give an inch take a mile. Sadly, people not only defend these things, they will justify it by actually paying money to them as well.

Defending a society based on lawsuits is just sad. It doesn't make you a better person at all, and makes it pretty hypocritical when many of these companies have done plenty of illegal things in the past to get where they are today. Just because they aren't in jail (since they can afford the lawyers), doesn't make them right.

This should be it's own topic on P&N or discussion club.:thumbsup:
 
At 44, I don't buy music like I used to when I was young, but I do buy music after finding something I like on YouTube. I still prefer to buy a CD and rip it myself; Apple will never get any of my money, and neither will any artist I never heard of because their music was removed.
 
At 44, I don't buy music like I used to when I was young, but I do buy music after finding something I like on YouTube. I still prefer to buy a CD and rip it myself; Apple will never get any of my money, and neither will any artist I never heard of because their music was removed.

Yeah, for me the free streaming is a chance to discover new artists I like, so that I can buy and rip all of their CDs. Just like radio.

The 20-second samples on Amazon are not the same thing as hearing a whole song, or a mini-concert like NPR's tiny desk series (Aimee Mann + Ted Leo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nivz7x_TMK4 )
 
Yeah, for me the free streaming is a chance to discover new artists I like, so that I can buy and rip all of their CDs. Just like radio.

The 20-second samples on Amazon are not the same thing as hearing a whole song, or a mini-concert like NPR's tiny desk series (Aimee Mann + Ted Leo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nivz7x_TMK4 )


I'm glad tat you buy cds but you must understand you are the minority. Most people just stream or play full albums on youtube. Almost all of those profits go to the IT industry. I know this is part of the reason we have such bias on these forums from a lot of people.

A lot of BIG companies are getting VERY rich on the backs of other peoples creative work and as everyone in this thread has stated content is getting worse not better. This is directly related to people not being able to support a family doing this kind of art. Nobody who has intelligence is going to struggle making 12k a year doing music for 30 years. Hell even peaking out around 50k a year would be horrible.

You need a lot of gear. A LOT. I have probably 130k invested (insured value is 85k) in equipment and software and I got nothing compared to a lot of guys (thankfully I don't need every flavor of Neve preamp). A proper small studio build out is 70k for the walls and floor alone.

No. Music will be made by wealthy people and poor people who have no other chance at success. Everyone else will be working a 9 to 5 and dreaming about music. Playing a little on the weekends and never really getting good. Because it take practice, lots and lots of practice.
 
this is totally consistent with apple's ecosystem. my new iphone doesn't include an am/fm tuner because apple wants me to pay them $1.29 per song. no joke, $1.29.

my old ipod nano has an fm tuner. do new ipods have fm or has it been killed?

It's consistent with their Business Case and what they have been doing ALL ALONG.

This is nothing new. Apple wants to take as much money from you as possible and force you not just into their products but also into their new products.

Reason # 5143243 why I stay away from, don't recommend or buy Apple products.
 
It's consistent with their Business Case and what they have been doing ALL ALONG.

This is nothing new. Apple wants to take as much money from you as possible and force you not just into their products but also into their new products.

Reason # 5143243 why I stay away from, don't recommend or buy Apple products.


It is truly a walled garden. I would not recommend buying any content on apples devices. I think amazon is a great digital distributor and they have anything available. So for me I like the apple tv for streaming and the fire tv for paid for content. I do own some things on apples streaming service but I will buy mostly on amazons from now on. I buy all of my music on amazon now as well. As a paid download...Unless I buy vinyl.
 
I'm glad tat you buy cds but you must understand you are the minority. Most people just stream or play full albums on youtube. Almost all of those profits go to the IT industry. I know this is part of the reason we have such bias on these forums from a lot of people.

A lot of BIG companies are getting VERY rich on the backs of other peoples creative work and as everyone in this thread has stated content is getting worse not better. This is directly related to people not being able to support a family doing this kind of art. Nobody who has intelligence is going to struggle making 12k a year doing music for 30 years. Hell even peaking out around 50k a year would be horrible.

You need a lot of gear. A LOT. I have probably 130k invested (insured value is 85k) in equipment and software and I got nothing compared to a lot of guys (thankfully I don't need every flavor of Neve preamp). A proper small studio build out is 70k for the walls and floor alone.

No. Music will be made by wealthy people and poor people who have no other chance at success. Everyone else will be working a 9 to 5 and dreaming about music. Playing a little on the weekends and never really getting good. Because it take practice, lots and lots of practice.

It's not fair. Never was and never will be.

That's why I laugh when people think that status or wealth is an indicator of "success".

For every "famous musician" or <insert just about any other profession> there is MILLIONS of people as good as them IF NOT BETTER that never made it and never will.

Success is a combination of LUCK, HARD WORK, TIMING and KNOWING THE RIGHT PEOPLE.

I mean look at the entire music industry right now, these famous/popular artists can't possibly be "the best that music industry got to offer".

If it is/was......that would be pretty sad.

😎
 
It is truly a walled garden. I would not recommend buying any content on apples devices. I think amazon is a great digital distributor and they have anything available. So for me I like the apple tv for streaming and the fire tv for paid for content. I do own some things on apples streaming service but I will buy mostly on amazons from now on. I buy all of my music on amazon now as well. As a paid download...Unless I buy vinyl.

Correct

What today's consumer doesn't get or understand is FREEDOM.

When you buy apple you limit your freedom.

I use Amazon and usually buy a CD > rip to high quality...and still have MP3 service there.

That's OPTIONS and CHOICES and NOT limiting my freedom.

I will never do business with ANY company that limits my freedom.

Unfortunately I'm a minority, based on success of Apple.

That's why I say, more power to Apple. I don't blame Apple, I blame the people.
 
It's not fair. Never was and never will be.

That's why I laugh when people think that status or wealth is an indicator of "success".

For every "famous musician" or <insert just about any other profession> there is MILLIONS of people as good as them IF NOT BETTER that never made it and never will.

Success is a combination of LUCK, HARD WORK, TIMING and KNOWING THE RIGHT PEOPLE.

I mean look at the entire music industry right now, these famous/popular artists can't possibly be "the best that music industry got to offer".

If it is/was......that would be pretty sad.

😎


Yup. Totally agree. Hard work talent and luck but not in that order 😉

Although I like to think luck is preparedness meeting opportunity.
 
Seems a bit counter intuitive. Youtube is free, sure, but it is also grossly inconvenient. I would think that it would be far better for any music streaming company to simply advertise on Youtube to subscribe. Imagine if every time you went to a free streaming music source you saw an ad for unlimited music for a flat rate per month. In my mind, the opportunity to advertise directly to your target market is far better than hoping your shotgun approach to marketing catches enough people.

Most of the music on Youtube is illegal anyway, but they only crack down on it when someone complains

Apparently the new Tidal service is trying to pull talent from Spotify too.
 
even if they somehow got youtube to go along with this it wouldn't work. it would definitely not drive people to their service, it would drive them away because how pissed off they would end up being


personally I don't stream music off of YT or any other service
 
America is suppose to be a capitalist society. If you want everything for free try communism.

How long until Apple looks at other streaming sites like Pandora after they stifle Spotify? I like finding new music from streaming services and being able to listen to the whole song before purchasing it is nice.

Maybe you're fine with a large company cutting down on your options because that's "Capitalism" but don't expect everyone to drink your favorite brand of Kool-Aid.


....
 
America is suppose to be a capitalist society. If you want everything for free try communism.

Look, I may not like what Apple is doing but why shouldn't they try to make as much money as possible? Do you sacrifice your salary for the benefit of others?

Endgame capitalism is fucked. It's basically a handful of companies left after buying out competition, and then it continues to shrink unless there is government intervention.
 
Most of the music on Youtube is illegal anyway, but they only crack down on it when someone complains

Apparently the new Tidal service is trying to pull talent from Spotify too.

Might be, but I like it when an album is uploaded there as I'll listen to it, and if I like it I'll go and buy it. So in a way, that "illegal" music triggered at least one additional purchase that may not have happened otherwise (and I doubt I'm the only one who listens before buying).
 
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