Discussion Apple Silicon SoC thread

[Eug]

M1
5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LP-DDR4
16 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 12 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache
(Apple claims the 4 high-effiency cores alone perform like a dual-core Intel MacBook Air)

8-core iGPU (but there is a 7-core variant, likely with one inactive core)
128 execution units
Up to 24576 concurrent threads
2.6 Teraflops
82 Gigatexels/s
41 gigapixels/s

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Products:
$999 ($899 edu) 13" MacBook Air (fanless) - 18 hour video playback battery life
$699 Mac mini (with fan)
$1299 ($1199 edu) 13" MacBook Pro (with fan) - 20 hour video playback battery life

Memory options 8 GB and 16 GB. No 32 GB option (unless you go Intel).

It should be noted that the M1 chip in these three Macs is the same (aside from GPU core number). Basically, Apple is taking the same approach which these chips as they do the iPhones and iPads. Just one SKU (excluding the X variants), which is the same across all iDevices (aside from maybe slight clock speed differences occasionally).

EDIT:



M1 Pro 8-core CPU (6+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 14-core GPU
M1 Pro 10-core CPU (8+2), 16-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 24-core GPU
M1 Max 10-core CPU (8+2), 32-core GPU

M1 Pro and M1 Max discussion here:

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M1 Ultra discussion here:

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M2 discussion here:

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Second Generation 5 nm
Unified memory architecture - LPDDR5, up to 24 GB and 100 GB/s
20 billion transistors

8-core CPU

4 high-performance cores
192 KB instruction cache
128 KB data cache
Shared 16 MB L2 cache

4 high-efficiency cores
128 KB instruction cache
64 KB data cache
Shared 4 MB L2 cache

10-core iGPU (but there is an 8-core variant)
3.6 Teraflops

16-core neural engine
Secure Enclave
USB 4

Hardware acceleration for 8K h.264, h.264, ProRes

M3 Family discussion here:

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M4 Family discussion here:

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[poke01]

Hard to do that with Apple's spectacular "we don't care you can't afford it" pricing.

you can contact Apple PR for this sort of thing. They send out test units to publications.

 

[poke01]

Also its really funny people think Apple is expensive, the M4 Macbook airs are sold at $800. You cannot get a better laptop basic for tasks like like web and youtube at that price point.

They gourge on RAM and SSD pricing but NEVER buy from Apple directly if you want value. Buy Macs from third partys like Best Buy, JB hi-fi, currys whatever

Apple MacBook Pro 16" M3 Max 16/40 Core CPU/GPU 48GB/1TB Silver $3194 + Del ($0 to Metro/ OnePass/ C&C/ In-Store) @ Officeworks

Deal: Apple MacBook Pro 16" M3 Max 16/40 Core CPU/GPU 48GB/1TB Silver $3194 + Del ($0 to Metro/ OnePass/ C&C/ In-Store) @ Officeworks, Store: Officeworks, Category: Computing

www.ozbargain.com.au

Plus last gen Apple products go for crazy discounts in Australia and elsewhere. Officeworks is an official retailer too.
That laptop is ~$2000USD including the 10% tax. If you know when to buy and where to buy, theres ton of savings to be had.

 

[Eug]

M5 seen in Apple code, for the Apple Vision Pro 2.

Apple Code Confirms Vision Pro With M5 Chip

Apple is working on a next-generation version of the Vision Pro with an M5 chip, according to code accidentally shared by Apple and discovered by...

www.macrumors.com

 

[poke01]

I expect wifi video playback results will get better with M5 and this new wireless chip. Will be much better than the Broadcom ones.

 

[mvprod123]

So, what is known from the Apple code leak:

1. The iPhone 17 Air (d23) and iPhone 17e (v159) will be getting an Apple modem

2. The next base-model iPad will feature an A18 chip and has the codenames J581 - Wifi & J582 - Cellular

https://twitter.com/x/status/1955787226081845751

3. There will be no major performance upgrades for 2025 Apple Watches. The S11 chip will have the same T8310 architecture (N4P A16 Bionic based) as the S9 and S10 chips in the Series 9 and Series 10 Apple Watch models.

Leaked S11 Chip Details Reveal No Major Performance Upgrades for 2025 Apple Watches

The upcoming Apple Watch Series 11, Apple Watch Ultra 3, and Apple Watch SE 3 will have an updated S11 system in package (SiP), but it may not bring...

www.macrumors.com

There are new codenames for upcoming Apple Watches:

• N227: Apple Watch Series 11
• N228: Apple Watch Series 11 (Cellular)
• N230: Apple Watch Ultra 3
• N237: Apple Watch Series 12
• N238: Apple Watch Series 12 (Cellular)
• N240: Apple Watch Ultra 4

4. The upcoming M5 MacBook Airs, codenamed J813 (13-inch) & J815 (15-inch) will receive a new Apple-made wireless chip

https://twitter.com/x/status/1955795561820405926

5. Apple Code Confirms Vision Pro With M5 Chip

Apple Code Confirms Vision Pro With M5 Chip

Apple is working on a next-generation version of the Vision Pro with an M5 chip, according to code accidentally shared by Apple and discovered by...

www.macrumors.com

6.Next iPad Mini (codename J510/J511) to Feature A19 Pro Chip (5-core GPU?)

Next iPad Mini to Feature A19 Pro Chip

Apple is working on a next-generation version of the iPad mini (codename J510/J511) that features an A19 chip, according to information found in code...

www.macrumors.com

7.New Apple TV Coming Later This Year With A17 Pro Chip

New Apple TV Coming Later This Year With A17 Pro Chip

Rumors suggest that Apple is working on an updated version of the Apple TV that's slated for launch later this year. Information about the...

www.macrumors.com

8.HomePod Mini With S11 Chip Coming Soon

HomePod Mini With Updated Chip Coming Soon

Apple is working on a refreshed version of the HomePod mini, and it will have an updated processor that's based on the S-series chips inside the...

www.macrumors.com

9.Apple is still working on a next-generation version of the Studio Display. The upcoming Studio Display 2 has a codename of J427. References to a display with the codename J527 were also found in the code.

Apple Still Working on Studio Display 2

Apple is still working on a next-generation version of the Studio Display, and MacRumors contributor Aaron Perris discovered signs of the new display...

www.macrumors.com

 

[mvprod123]

So, what is known from the Apple code leak:

1. The iPhone 17 Air (d23) and iPhone 17e (v159) will be getting an Apple modem

2. The next base-model iPad will feature an A18 chip and has the codenames J581 - Wifi & J582 - Cellular

https://twitter.com/x/status/1955787226081845751

3. There will be no major performance upgrades for 2025 Apple Watches. The S11 chip will have the same T8310 architecture (N4P A16 Bionic based) as the S9 and S10 chips in the Series 9 and Series 10 Apple Watch models.

Leaked S11 Chip Details Reveal No Major Performance Upgrades for 2025 Apple Watches

The upcoming Apple Watch Series 11, Apple Watch Ultra 3, and Apple Watch SE 3 will have an updated S11 system in package (SiP), but it may not bring...

www.macrumors.com

There are new codenames for upcoming Apple Watches:

• N227: Apple Watch Series 11
• N228: Apple Watch Series 11 (Cellular)
• N230: Apple Watch Ultra 3
• N237: Apple Watch Series 12
• N238: Apple Watch Series 12 (Cellular)
• N240: Apple Watch Ultra 4

4. The upcoming M5 MacBook Airs, codenamed J813 (13-inch) & J815 (15-inch) will receive a new Apple-made wireless chip

https://twitter.com/x/status/1955795561820405926

5. Apple Code Confirms Vision Pro With M5 Chip

Apple Code Confirms Vision Pro With M5 Chip

Apple is working on a next-generation version of the Vision Pro with an M5 chip, according to code accidentally shared by Apple and discovered by...

www.macrumors.com

6.Next iPad Mini (codename J510/J511) to Feature A19 Pro Chip (5-core GPU?)

Next iPad Mini to Feature A19 Pro Chip

Apple is working on a next-generation version of the iPad mini (codename J510/J511) that features an A19 chip, according to information found in code...

www.macrumors.com

7.New Apple TV Coming Later This Year With A17 Pro Chip

New Apple TV Coming Later This Year With A17 Pro Chip

Rumors suggest that Apple is working on an updated version of the Apple TV that's slated for launch later this year. Information about the...

www.macrumors.com

8.HomePod Mini With S11 Chip Coming Soon

HomePod Mini With Updated Chip Coming Soon

Apple is working on a refreshed version of the HomePod mini, and it will have an updated processor that's based on the S-series chips inside the...

www.macrumors.com

9.Apple is still working on a next-generation version of the Studio Display. The upcoming Studio Display 2 has a codename of J427. References to a display with the codename J527 were also found in the code.

Apple Still Working on Studio Display 2

Apple is still working on a next-generation version of the Studio Display, and MacRumors contributor Aaron Perris discovered signs of the new display...

www.macrumors.com

A19 Pro chip for Studio Display 2, lol

'A19 Pro' Chip Coming to Studio Display 2

Apple's next-generation Studio Display will contain an "A19 Pro" chip, according to code reviewed by MacRumors. Yesterday, signs of the...

www.macrumors.com

 

[mvprod123]

M5 MacBook Pro with Apple C1 modem reportedly being tested. This will be a pretty good selling point for the M5 generation.

Apple’s first Mac with 5G cellular might be coming sooner than we thought - 9to5Mac

Apple’s first Mac with 5G cellular connectivity could be just around the corner, according to a new report about the M5 MacBook Pro.

9to5mac.com

 

[poke01]

M5 MacBook Pro with Apple C1 modem reportedly being tested. This will be a pretty good selling point for the M5 generation.

Apple’s first Mac with 5G cellular might be coming sooner than we thought - 9to5Mac

Apple’s first Mac with 5G cellular connectivity could be just around the corner, according to a new report about the M5 MacBook Pro.

9to5mac.com

Makes sense why the phone App was introduced to macOS 26 then.

 

[DZero]

Found this new...

Kuo: Apple to release cheaper MacBook powered by iPhone processor - 9to5Mac

Apple’s current entry-level laptop is the $999 MacBook Air, but analyst Ming-Chi Kuo believes Apple is aiming to launch an...

9to5mac.com

What is with the idea of Apple going that way?

 

[Doug S]

Found this new...

Kuo: Apple to release cheaper MacBook powered by iPhone processor - 9to5Mac

Apple’s current entry-level laptop is the $999 MacBook Air, but analyst Ming-Chi Kuo believes Apple is aiming to launch an...

9to5mac.com

What is with the idea of Apple going that way?

That was discussed here a bit when the articles come out. My theory is that it is targeted at sort of the "college student" market. I've seen elsewhere it is supposed to have a slightly smaller display than the smaller MBA. I would not be shocked if it had a plastic case unlike other Macs, so it is cheaper and differentiated from MBA by more than just lesser performance. A lot of that age group loves "retro" products so if they go plastic I'd say it is almost certain at least one of the color options will be "clear"/translucent as a throwback to the late 90s iMac era.

Basically the same idea as iPhone SE, grow the market. I would guess they'll price it at $699, then like Apple does with some other products when they introduce a new one they'll keep the previous version on the price list at $599.

 

[DZero]

That was discussed here a bit when the articles come out. My theory is that it is targeted at sort of the "college student" market. I've seen elsewhere it is supposed to have a slightly smaller display than the smaller MBA. I would not be shocked if it had a plastic case unlike other Macs, so it is cheaper and differentiated from MBA by more than just lesser performance. A lot of that age group loves "retro" products so if they go plastic I'd say it is almost certain at least one of the color options will be "clear"/translucent as a throwback to the late 90s iMac era.

Basically the same idea as iPhone SE, grow the market. I would guess they'll price it at $699, then like Apple does with some other products when they introduce a new one they'll keep the previous version on the price list at $599.

So it's the MacBook SE? That could be interesting to see.

 

[johnsonwax]

That was discussed here a bit when the articles come out. My theory is that it is targeted at sort of the "college student" market. I've seen elsewhere it is supposed to have a slightly smaller display than the smaller MBA. I would not be shocked if it had a plastic case unlike other Macs, so it is cheaper and differentiated from MBA by more than just lesser performance. A lot of that age group loves "retro" products so if they go plastic I'd say it is almost certain at least one of the color options will be "clear"/translucent as a throwback to the late 90s iMac era.

Basically the same idea as iPhone SE, grow the market. I would guess they'll price it at $699, then like Apple does with some other products when they introduce a new one they'll keep the previous version on the price list at $599.

I disagree. I think it's tariffs. Apple builds to price point and has been able to do that successfully for decades because there were no meaningful tariffs and you had a declining cost of components, so you have a lot of agency in terms of what you choose to pack into that $999 price point.

But tariffs throw that plan out the window. If you're facing a 30% tariff out of China, and 50% out of India, how do you hit that $999 price point if that's where your assembly is? Or even if your assembly is in the US but that's where your components come from? You kind of can't do that. The $1299 iMac price point which has been stable for 27 years isn't sustainable. But, if you can lower your component prices even more aggressively by swapping out the M4 for an A18 you have a better ability to hold prices. You guys think it'll be a $599 product, but it's how Apple keeps the $999 price point alive without having to run it up to $1299 because that's what the tariffs are going to force to happen. Apple had a $1B tariff outlay last quarter and tariffs weren't even in place most of the quarter. And you're really going to see PC prices spike, because at least Apple has some margins to work with - the PC OEMs don't really have any.

 

[DZero]

I disagree. I think it's tariffs. Apple builds to price point and has been able to do that successfully for decades because there were no meaningful tariffs and you had a declining cost of components, so you have a lot of agency in terms of what you choose to pack into that $999 price point.

But tariffs throw that plan out the window. If you're facing a 30% tariff out of China, and 50% out of India, how do you hit that $999 price point if that's where your assembly is? Or even if your assembly is in the US but that's where your components come from? You kind of can't do that. The $1299 iMac price point which has been stable for 27 years isn't sustainable. But, if you can lower your component prices even more aggressively by swapping out the M4 for an A18 you have a better ability to hold prices. You guys think it'll be a $599 product, but it's how Apple keeps the $999 price point alive without having to run it up to $1299 because that's what the tariffs are going to force to happen. Apple had a $1B tariff outlay last quarter and tariffs weren't even in place most of the quarter. And you're really going to see PC prices spike, because at least Apple has some margins to work with - the PC OEMs don't really have any.

It they try to pull that, good luck, outside USA will crash HARD and the 2nd hand units will increase the prices all over the place.

 

[dr1337]

I disagree. I think it's tariffs. Apple builds to price point and has been able to do that successfully for decades because there were no meaningful tariffs and you had a declining cost of components, so you have a lot of agency in terms of what you choose to pack into that $999 price point.

if it were tariffs I don't think apple would still be selling the m4 macbook air at $999, and its not like the custom specc'd ones have a special markup either.

 

[poke01]

if it were tariffs I don't think apple would still be selling the m4 macbook air at $999, and its not like the custom specc'd ones have a special markup either.

Apple sold the 2020/M1 MacBook Air for $999 too.

 

[Doug S]

I disagree. I think it's tariffs. Apple builds to price point and has been able to do that successfully for decades because there were no meaningful tariffs and you had a declining cost of components, so you have a lot of agency in terms of what you choose to pack into that $999 price point.

But tariffs throw that plan out the window. If you're facing a 30% tariff out of China, and 50% out of India, how do you hit that $999 price point if that's where your assembly is? Or even if your assembly is in the US but that's where your components come from? You kind of can't do that. The $1299 iMac price point which has been stable for 27 years isn't sustainable. But, if you can lower your component prices even more aggressively by swapping out the M4 for an A18 you have a better ability to hold prices. You guys think it'll be a $599 product, but it's how Apple keeps the $999 price point alive without having to run it up to $1299 because that's what the tariffs are going to force to happen. Apple had a $1B tariff outlay last quarter and tariffs weren't even in place most of the quarter. And you're really going to see PC prices spike, because at least Apple has some margins to work with - the PC OEMs don't really have any.

Huh? Based on die size calculator at $18K per N3E wafer the 165mm^2 M4 looks to cost ~$20 per die more than the 105mm^2 A18P . The M4 packaging is more complicated but even if you double the cost difference to $40 that alone is at best allowing a $100 reduction in list price.

Besides the whole reason Tim Cook went to kiss Trump's ring last week was to gain a tariff exemption for iPhones, Macs, and other Apple products. Yes Trump could get a bug up his ass tomorrow and say "double tariffs on Apple!" but you can't plan new products based on the ravings of a mad king, let alone his potential ravings.

 

[mikegg]

View attachment 34837

A brand new, few weeks old MBA is already $900.

I predicted many times that Apple would release a $700 Macbook in the future to recapture their iPhone/iPad customers who bought a Windows laptop, and to take on the huge $600-$800 laptop market.

Still think it's impossible?

It's quite obvious by now that Apple will release a Macbook SE, like they've done for the iPhone, Watch, and iPad (no official SE naming). Maybe it's an older MBA Air. Maybe it's the return of the 12". Whatever it is, it's quite obvious to me, but it seems like many in this forum think it's impossible, still stuck to the mindset that Apple will never change from their luxury and "poor value" ways.

Apple is pivoting from being mostly a hardware company. Listen to an earnings call for god's sake. They've repeatedly said they intend to be serious players in subscriptions and services. And how do they sell subscriptions and services? Unify their ecosystem so Apple One can work in all Apple devices, and take more hardware marketshare by releasing cheaper devices.

A 2 month old Apple Watch SE, which is mostly the same as the Series 6, is selling for $230. It's by far, the best Smart Watch under $300. Still think Apple is only for the rich?

View attachment 34838

Apple has changed. They're gunning for marketshare. They've dominated the tablet market (65%) by releasing cheap iPads that are far superior to Android tablets. They've dominated the Smart Watch market (55% pre-Watch SE, expect much higher in Q4 reports) by releasing and lowering the price of their Watches to the point where no one else can really compete. And they've focused on the lower end of the phone market by releasing the iPhone SE, and then a cheaper low-end model of the Pros. Three years after launching Airpods, Apple took 71% of total wireless headset revenue.

Still think a cheap Mac is impossible?

The only difference between a low-end Mac and a $280 iPad is a bigger SoC, a few extra GB of RAM, a bit bigger storage, and a keyboard. RAM and SSD storage is cheap. Mac SoCs are more expensive to manufacture but their design costs are shared with iPhones and iPad and more expensive Macs. A keyboard is low tech and cheap.

$700 Macbook is definitely doable, especially if it uses 5nm SoCs while the more expensive Macs move to 3nm.

If so, my prediction of Apple taking 50% PC shipment market share in 5 years isn't so far fetched. They've done it in the phone, tablet, and watch markets with the exact same strategy.

A $400 iPhone SE is faster than a $1500 Android phone. One day, a $700 Macbook SE might be faster than your $3000 Windows laptop.

You're sounding more and more ridiculous.

1) $900 is not $700.
2) Apple computers go on sale EVERY FRICKIN' YEAR on Black Friday/Cyber Monday. This is not new.
3) The list price is still $1000. $1000 is 43% more than $700.

Come back when you actually have something real to argue with.


Whatever you're smokin', I want some!

Whatever I was smoking, I was right.

For years, I said Apple should/would make a Macbook SE for $700 - $750. Everyone here laughed and thought I was smoking something.

I think it was obvious that Macbook SE-like device was coming. I don't understand why posters here thought it was a ridiculous idea.

 

[mikegg]

1. Yes, $900 is not $700. But I didn't say it'll happen now, right?
2. Yes, doesn't change that Apple already has the ability to drop the M1 Air to $900 and the M1 Mini to $630.
3. iPhone 12 Mini is 75% more than the iPhone SE.

Your mindset is still stuck in 2010-2014.

$270 iPad? No way.
$230 new-gen Apple Watch? What are you, crazy?
$100 Homepod? Impossible.
Apple dipping into the low-midend phone market? No way, Apple is only luxury.

Apple has gone into every the low mid-end segment in every market that they're in. But you're so sure that Apple won't for Macs?

And no, I'm not saying Apple is going to compete with $400 Costco junk laptops. They never will.

But your counter points are more and more ridiculous. Actually try to project things into the future and look at trends, instead of getting stuck in 2014.

Look at the strategy Apple has employed. Listen in to their earnings calls. Look at their market share in other markets. It doesn't take a genius to know that a Macbook SE is coming in the future.

Apple to Start Mass Producing Self-Designed Mac SoC, Projected to Cost under US$100, in 1H21, Says TrendForce | TrendForce

According to the latest investigations by TrendForce, Apple officially unveiled its self-designed Mac SoC processors based on the ARM architecture in June, with the market release of the first Mac device with Apple Silicon (which broadly refers to chips designed by Apple) scheduled to take place...

www.trendforce.com

the production cost of a Mac processor made with TSMC’s 5nm node is currently estimated under US$100, which is considerably more cost-effective compared to the 10nm Intel Core i3 processors, priced around US$200 to US$300 on the market.

Apple's below $100 M1 is faster than Intel's' $300 mobile CPUs.

They've never done an affordable Macbook because they couldn't due to the price floor of Intel chips. Anything cheaper than Intel's i3 would be unacceptable to Apple in terms of user experience. This is no longer a problem for Apple.

A pretty good post from a few years ago outlining why Apple would make a cheap Macbook.

 

[Tigerick]

Whatever I was smoking, I was right.

For years, I said Apple should/would make a Macbook SE for $700 - $750. Everyone here laughed and thought I was smoking something.

I think it was obvious that Macbook SE-like device was coming. I don't understand why posters here thought it was a ridiculous idea.

Geez, not so soon. If you really know the iPadOS/MacOS difference, you should know Apple won't release MacBook with A18 Pro. The rumored A18 Pro 13-inch is probably iPad device, not MacBook....