Apple Pay / Google Wallet: Not So Fast

[ControlD]

this thread has almost convinced me to start using cash again.

:biggrin:

Maybe someday our phones will replace real wallets, but as it is now I still need to carry things other than credit cards. Since I already need to lug around things like my insurance card, driver's license, work ID, etc. I might as well carry my cards as well. Then again, I have one credit card and one debit card. Not a huge deal. I like the idea of a card I can bump against a reader, so I guess using a phone would be fine as well. I just don't see a pressing need for it ... yet.

 

[sweenish]

Insurance is handled by my phone.

ID really is the last thing phones haven't attempted to replace.

 

[ControlD]

I'm pretty sure me trying to show one of our local cops my phone for proof of insurance would end with a tasing.

I would have to see if my medical is available to display on my phone but it has never been offered as far as I know.

 

[Ramses]

I always carry cash on me. Always. Even in North America. Even in Canada where contact less payment is almost everywhere, and credit card or debit card support is near ubiquitous.

P.S. Chip and signature seems pointless. If you're going to have a chip, it should at least be chip and pin, but preferably contact less payment via RFID.

I should but I haven't for years unless I was traveling. I went to all debit years ago and have had surprisingly little trouble with it. 95% of places, my phone dings me via email and SMS when I use it which I really like for security, which is a great improvement over years ago when I first started using them. I was into the idea of Google Wallet when it came out but between nowhere supporting it anywhere I shop in person and it being faster to swipe a card, just never panned out for me. Honestly the biggest reason is every single time I thought about trying it at the few places I've come across that DID take it, is there was always a line behind me and I'm one of those throwbacks that does not want to hold people up waiting on me. So it's swipe and go just like the previous twenty years. They got a hard row to hoe as my grandmother used to say with this NFC stuff other than just as a novelty for a few imo.
But do call me in twenty years when they decide on a standard that's accepted at least as widely as a regular card is now and I'll think about it.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Insurance is handled by my phone.

ID really is the last thing phones haven't attempted to replace.

Yeah that is what does me in. I need my license to get out of my burbs, which might as well be the whole wallet.

 

[WelshBloke]

Insurance is handled by my phone.

ID really is the last thing phones haven't attempted to replace.

I'm pretty sure me trying to show one of our local cops my phone for proof of insurance would end with a tasing.

I would have to see if my medical is available to display on my phone but it has never been offered as far as I know.

Luckily I don't need to carry any of that stuff (we don't need to carry proof of insurance or ID or any of that stuff in the UK), the only things in my wallet are credit/debit cards (that are both contactless and chip and pin enabled) and some cash.

 

[Ramses]

Seems like a bad idea not to have ID on you. What if you have an accident or a stroke or something? I don't think we actually have to have it here either, but it seems like a good idea.

 

[WelshBloke]

Seems like a bad idea not to have ID on you. What if you have an accident or a stroke or something? I don't think we actually have to have it here either, but it seems like a good idea.

Well there's my credit card they could trace me from and if it's a car accident I'm the registered owner so either way they should be able to identify me.

 

[corkyg]

In UK, don't you have driver's licenses?

 

[sweenish]

I should but I haven't for years unless I was traveling. I went to all debit years ago and have had surprisingly little trouble with it. 95% of places, my phone dings me via email and SMS when I use it which I really like for security, which is a great improvement over years ago when I first started using them. I was into the idea of Google Wallet when it came out but between nowhere supporting it anywhere I shop in person and it being faster to swipe a card, just never panned out for me. Honestly the biggest reason is every single time I thought about trying it at the few places I've come across that DID take it, is there was always a line behind me and I'm one of those throwbacks that does not want to hold people up waiting on me. So it's swipe and go just like the previous twenty years. They got a hard row to hoe as my grandmother used to say with this NFC stuff other than just as a novelty for a few imo.
But do call me in twenty years when they decide on a standard that's accepted at least as widely as a regular card is now and I'll think about it.

Just unlock your wallet while the person in front of you is checking out. It's faster to tap than to swipe AND sign/enter a PIN.

I've passed up on NFC when I realized too late that they could have taken it, but it's not a blanket excuse.

 

[Dulanic]

CurrenC is doomed to fail. Why would ANYONE want to use that crap? There is 0 benefit.

Google Wallet does not charge a fee to the merchants, they pay the same interchange fees through the credit cards, but google doesn't get anything. They do it for one reason... data collection

Apple Pay does change a fee, but to the issuing bank, not the merchant. Banks are quick to jump on this purely to help avoid fraud. They are responsible for all fraud transactions, so they are offsetting the fees from one area to another really.

Merchants are enticed to enable contactless payments & chip cards. The reason being is all credit card companies are shifting fraud liability from the banks to the merchants IF they don't accept those methods of payment.

I use google wallet when available for one reason, I don't have to take out my stupid credit card and pick which one I want to use. I swap based on the reward categories. I can just click which one.

CurrenC is purely in existence as a way for Merchants to avoid credit card processing fees and instead go straight to your bank account with minimal fees.

 

[pm]

In UK, don't you have driver's licenses?

Yes there are drivers licenses but not much like the ones in the US. Back when I lived in the UK, a drivers license was a piece of paper with your name and address on it but no photo that you folded up and kept at home. If you needed it - for a driving infraction - you took it down to the police station at a later date. Proof of identity was something like a utility statement with your name and address on it. As an American, it was always the oddest thing to never be asked for a photo ID - even for things like a bank account.

I moved back to the US over a decade ago, but it's my understanding that the UK government has tried multiple times to roll out a national ID card and every time public disapproval has shot the idea down.

 

[WelshBloke]

In UK, don't you have driver's licenses?

Yeah we do, we just don't have to carry it around with us all the time.
If the police want to see it you have 7 days to produce it at the police station although you can just give them your details and they can check with the DVLA to see if you have one.

 

[Kaido]

In 72 hours, Apple Pay is already the wireless payment leader in the US

 

[Brian Stirling]

CurrenC could succeed if the retailers begin to charge customers a fee for CC transactions and customers opt to use CurrenC to avoid it. So, I suspect that there will be a move by retailers to do just that once they have there system in place.


Brian

 

[foghorn67]

CurrenC could succeed if the retailers begin to charge customers a fee for CC transactions and customers opt to use CurrenC to avoid it. So, I suspect that there will be a move by retailers to do just that once they have there system in place.


Brian

Not legal, IIRC.

 

[openwheel]

That's a good point, however, CurrenC will not survive even if retailers start charging CC fee. The general population will just switch to debit card or cash as payment.

Although the concept is good, I doubt CurrenC's discount is enough to convert people over. Similarly to Google Wallet, Apple Pay, Isis or any other mobile payment. The convenience factor is just not there, I doubt people will convert. Some will, but only a small minority, enough to add another payment terminal at retailers, not enough to actually make lives better.

 

[dawheat]

That's a good point, however, CurrenC will not survive even if retailers start charging CC fee. The general population will just switch to debit card or cash as payment.

Although the concept is good, I doubt CurrenC's discount is enough to convert people over. Similarly to Google Wallet, Apple Pay, Isis or any other mobile payment. The convenience factor is just not there, I doubt people will convert. Some will, but only a small minority, enough to add another payment terminal at retailers, not enough to actually make lives better.

Yeah anything even remotely related to scanning a QR code in a pin-locked app is just a consumer experience fail.

 

[cpacini]

CurrenC could succeed if the retailers begin to charge customers a fee for CC transactions and customers opt to use CurrenC to avoid it. So, I suspect that there will be a move by retailers to do just that once they have there system in place.


Brian

Unless things have changed I don't think they can, if I remember correctly part of the merchant's agreement with the cc companies is they are not allowed to charge additional fees for cc transactions. Smaller shops can get away with doing it but major retailers like Wal-Mart wouldn't be able to.

The entire point of currentc is to give retailers some leverage in dealing with the cc companies, currently they have basically none.

 

[openwheel]

I see some gas stations with cash price and credit card price. Usually gas is $0.1 cheaper with gas price. I see it with Shell, 76, Chevron and more.

 

[Dulanic]

I see some gas stations with cash price and credit card price. Usually gas is $0.1 cheaper with gas price. I see it with Shell, 76, Chevron and more.

That happened recently due to a lawsuit from businesses against Visa/MC. However, many states still prevent it legally.

http://www.practicalecommerce.com/a...s-Can-Now-Charge-for-Credit-Card-Transactions

Here is more by state who restricts it.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/financ...edit-or-debit-card-surcharges-2013-legis.aspx

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Yeah we do, we just don't have to carry it around with us all the time.
If the police want to see it you have 7 days to produce it at the police station although you can just give them your details and they can check with the DVLA to see if you have one.

Ah. Because in most accidents in the US, you just exchange drivers license info, car registration info, then that's it. If someone's not carrying their license I'm calling the cops. There becomes a traceability issue once one of the parties doesn't have sufficient ID. But every accident I've been involved in or been witness to, people have been civil and have always solved it with talking it out and exchanging info.

I guess the other thing in the US is your DL serves as your ID, so if you ever want to go to a bar, that's your ticket. So yeah, its always DL + Credit Card at a minimum in my pocket.

I'm pretty sure me trying to show one of our local cops my phone for proof of insurance would end with a tasing.

I would have to see if my medical is available to display on my phone but it has never been offered as far as I know.

Proof of insurance can be carried in the vehicle. The glovebox has plenty of space for your registration + insurance papers.

Yes there are drivers licenses but not much like the ones in the US. Back when I lived in the UK, a drivers license was a piece of paper with your name and address on it but no photo that you folded up and kept at home. If you needed it - for a driving infraction - you took it down to the police station at a later date. Proof of identity was something like a utility statement with your name and address on it. As an American, it was always the oddest thing to never be asked for a photo ID - even for things like a bank account.

I moved back to the US over a decade ago, but it's my understanding that the UK government has tried multiple times to roll out a national ID card and every time public disapproval has shot the idea down.

I'm actually for a national ID knowing that it will consolidate resources and allow interoperability across the states. I'm unsure of the implementation though knowing government is a horrible bureaucracy. However it really would give people less of an excuse to show your ID when voting (which is done in most other countries), and it would put an end to ridiculous forms of ID like birth certificate and SSN card (that card seriously feels like you could print one out on your own).

 

[Brian Stirling]

Not legal, IIRC.

Excuse me, but why would that be illegal?


Brian

 

[WelshBloke]

Ah. Because in most accidents in the US, you just exchange drivers license info, car registration info, then that's it.

That's what we do here as well.

If someone's not carrying their license I'm calling the cops. There becomes a traceability issue once one of the parties doesn't have sufficient ID. But every accident I've been involved in or been witness to, people have been civil and have always solved it with talking it out and exchanging info.

Traceability isn't a problem, the registered keeper is ultimately responsible for insurance and you just need the registration number of the car to find them.

I guess the other thing in the US is your DL serves as your ID, so if you ever want to go to a bar, that's your ticket. So yeah, its always DL + Credit Card at a minimum in my pocket.

We are more relaxed about needing ID in bars, you're only going to need some if you look obviously under 18.

Proof of insurance can be carried in the vehicle. The glovebox has plenty of space for your registration + insurance papers.

I don't like keeping car documents in the car, if someone stole your cars they'd have your documents as well as your car then.

 

[ControlD]

Proof of insurance can be carried in the vehicle. The glovebox has plenty of space for your registration + insurance papers.

That's a good point. Doesn't really help with your medical card, but it is two less things that you need to have on you at all times.

In other news, I think WB has almost convinced me to move to the UK.