Apple CEO Says Chinese Have More Skill Making Their Products Than Americans

[Exterous]

I'm betting the Chinese tool and die makers work for a fraction of that. Which would be the real reason Apple is manufacturing in China, not some mythological self-serving crap about how no such people exist in the US.

Its probably also a bit harder to make them work 85 hours a week, stay in overcrowded dormitories and exploit underage workers. Not that that continued to happen in the years following the 2010 reports and is likely still happening today or anything...

Also - number of workers in an area tends to have some correlation to employers offering jobs. If Apple really cared they could easily start a job training program or slowly increase the number of US tool and die positions they are hiring for

 

[ControlD]

Its probably also a bit harder to make them work 85 hours a week, stay in overcrowded dormitories and exploit underage workers. Not that that continued to happen in the years following the 2010 reports and is likely still happening today or anything...

Also - number of workers in an area tends to have some correlation to employers offering jobs. If Apple really cared they could easily start a job training program or slowly increase the number of US tool and die positions they are hiring for

This.

That is exactly what we have done in our local area. We had, and continue to have, a real demand for technical people somewhere in between a skilled trade and an engineer. We (and other companies in the area) worked with a couple of the local tech schools in the area and they have started programs focused more on what our industry needs. It is also a need for numerous other companies, not just local ones.

Now we will have a steady supply of people we can plug in. Everybody wins. The schools get more students, those students are getting trained in skills that are actually in demand, and we get the workers we need.

 

[shady28]

Keep in mind this is the company that, along with Google and others, made illegal pacts to not hire each others engineers. Apple was the ring-leader.

Frankly IMO most of these people should be in jail.

But since no investors were harmed, only employees...........


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/04/21/apple_steve_jobs_poaching_lawsuit/

Google, Apple, Intel and Adobe had agreed not to poach each others' techies, effectively keeping engineers' wages down by not offering them more money to move jobs, it's claimed. The four companies were sued by their employees in a class-action suit, and in January this year, the four giants settled out of court by offering staff a $415m (£278m) windfall.

(Back in 2014, Facebook chief operating officer Sheryl Sandberg said under oath that she had been approached to enter a no-poaching agreement with Apple, but had declined to take Steve Jobs' offer. The US Department of Justice also looked into the claims of collusion, but decided to levy no charges or fines, and instead told the companies involved to knock it off.)

http://www.fool.com/investing/gener...engineers-might-make-200000-today-if-not.aspx

The lawsuit, brought against a group of four tech titans and representing nearly 65,000 employees, has been years in the making. In September 2010, the Department of Justice settled civic charges against the aforementioned companies, as well as Intel Corp., Intuit Inc., Adobe Systems and Walt Disney's Pixar Animation unit for antitrust violations.

Just as in the instant case, the tech and entertainment companies were accused of agreeing not to poach each other's employees. The DOJ commented that the no-solicitation agreements, which began in 2005, "eliminated a significant form of competition to attract highly skilled employees" and exerted a chilling effect upon the compensation levels and chances of intra-industry mobility of tech workers.

 

[TheSlamma]

They're just having the Asians do jobs Americans won't do, what is everyone so emo about?

This, just like what these companies are saying is a bunch of shit, many Americans especially in the midwest are still sitting around waiting for these types of jobs to come back and would gladly take them.. and the byproduct we get now is raising fastfood and cashier jobs to living wages so those can become "careers" now because that gap needs filling.

Cook can say it all he wants, but the truth is, they are using Foxconn because those people are forced to work 60 hour weeks, not get bathroom brakes and do it for $370USD a month.

He can spin it all he wants but that is the bottom line, lets say the US actually is that bad on vocational people, then why not Germany? They have a dual vocational program and plenty of skilled workers to do it that are paid living wages and have the rights of a human being.. but oh, they cost too much.

 

[chucky2]

This, snip

Look, I'm only using the same exact logic as those advocating for 10's of Millions of "immigrants" to come here to the US and 'do jobs Americans won't do'. Except in this case, these people are 'doing the jobs Americans won't do' but at least we don't have to pay for all the support they require. I mean, Libs should be jizztastically happy these 'jobs Americans won't do' are being done by truly poor people. These are precisely the same class of 'jobs Americans won't do' that we're importing every "immigrant" we can get here, so to argue against these Corp doing their part would basically be the height of hypocrisy.

 

[DrunkenSano]

Publically traded companies are at the mercy of their stockholders. Cook can't just do a 180 and move everything back to the US. The cost would be tremendous (despite the profits they make) and the shares would take a tremendous nose dive. Would have pretty bad effects on the company and would lead to a lot of lay-offs and lost jobs to say the least.

 

[1prophet]

Tim Cook is no different than the Koch's,
But because he is openly gay, politically correct, Obama's and liberal democrats friend, he gets a free pass on all the corporate bs he is spewing,

These corporate whores are like the relative that likes to come and eat at the family table (American consumer), use the family resources and facilities (American courts, and government system, etc.), but when it comes to doing their fair share (take care of the very country and the people that allowed them to en-richen themselves), they cry profit only matters,we are only responsible to the shareholders, not my responsibility, etc.

How about you move your corporate charter to china and sell to the Chinese that you are using to avoid the stringent environmental, labor, and safety laws,let's see how your profits do then.

 

[dank69]

Look, I'm only using the same exact logic as those advocating for 10's of Millions of "immigrants" to come here to the US and 'do jobs Americans won't do'. Except in this case, these people are 'doing the jobs Americans won't do' but at least we don't have to pay for all the support they require. I mean, Libs should be jizztastically happy these 'jobs Americans won't do' are being done by truly poor people. These are precisely the same class of 'jobs Americans won't do' that we're importing every "immigrant" we can get here, so to argue against these Corp doing their part would basically be the height of hypocrisy.

The difference is that these are jobs that Americans ARE willing to do. Americans still wouldn't want to do a lot of the jobs that immigrants do even if they paid a decent wage.

 

[dank69]

Tim Cook is no different than the Koch's,
But because he is openly gay, politically correct, Obama's and liberal democrats friend, he gets a free pass on all the corporate bs he is spewing,

These corporate whores are like the relative that likes to come and eat at the family table (American consumer), use the family resources and facilities (American courts, and government system, etc.), but when it comes to doing their fair share (take care of the very country and the people that allowed them to en-richen themselves), they cry profit only matters,we are only responsible to the shareholders, not my responsibility, etc.

How about you move your corporate charter to china and sell to the Chinese that you are using to avoid the stringent environmental, labor, and safety laws,let's see how your profits do then.

A free pass? Who is giving him a free pass?

 

[chucky2]

The difference is that these are jobs that Americans ARE willing to do. Americans still wouldn't want to do a lot of the jobs that immigrants do even if they paid a decent wage.

Sorry, that's just not accurate, at least according to Lib logic. If an "immigrant" is doing a job here in the US, that's 'a job an American won't do' and thus makes up the justification on why it's completely cool we have yet another "immigrant" here we don't really need, plus dismisses the job loss/increased competition/wage suppression these freak Americans who are attempting to do 'jobs Americans won't do' as a lessor consideration. Well, we have precisely the same thing here. Are you all not happy? What, no Bleeding Heart and/or White Guilt for these Asians unless they're "immigrants" here? So strange is the application of liberal logic...

 

[Genx87]

The difference is that these are jobs that Americans ARE willing to do. Americans still wouldn't want to do a lot of the jobs that immigrants do even if they paid a decent wage.

They are willing to do them at American prices. Which is why these jobs are in China.

 

[chucky2]

They are willing to do them at American prices. Which is why these jobs are in China.

Plus the Asians can be exploited more as far as work hours, flexibility, healthcare, etc. where American workers can't/won't...hmmmm...still sounds like offshore "immigrants"! Why are Libs so xenophobic and hateful towards these poor offshore "immigrants"...?

 

[TheSlamma]

Look, I'm only using the same exact logic as those advocating for 10's of Millions of "immigrants" to come here to the US and 'do jobs Americans won't do'. Except in this case, these people are 'doing the jobs Americans won't do' but at least we don't have to pay for all the support they require. I mean, Libs should be jizztastically happy these 'jobs Americans won't do' are being done by truly poor people. These are precisely the same class of 'jobs Americans won't do' that we're importing every "immigrant" we can get here, so to argue against these Corp doing their part would basically be the height of hypocrisy.

I'm not a lib, so hypocrisy not found, and trust me I think Libs are some of the most hypocritical people on earth so I don't disagree there.

My issue is if certain types of employee treatment is illegal in the US, then a US company cannot go out to other countries where those same practices are overlooked and then import that product into the US. How can an American worker compete when our laws won't even allow them to be a slave like China does?

And I don't buy the excuse Amercian works won't do this type of work, I agree they won't go out and work the fields, but Morotola had no problem getting workers for it's MotoX plant. I'm from the midwest, the people in Michigan and Ohio would gladly have their manufacturing jobs back.

 

[LegendKiller]

And why don't we have the skills?

Because people like him demanded we offshore everything to China.

 

[TheSlamma]

Also I would like to add that I have personally worked IT for Coors, Eagle Claw and 2 small firms that did manufacturing, 1 was a wood shop and the other did prototyping for inventors. On top of that I have family who have worked for Ford, Timkin roller bearings, Michelin, Frito Lay and my uncle that worked for a meat packing plant who now strangely will never touch processed meats again 😉

I have also toured many manufacturing plants personally, Celestial Seasonings, Tilamook, Roxul, Budweiser and a few others.

At each and every one of them I saw plenty of Americans glad to have a job and no they were not all immigrants.

 

[LegendKiller]

Publically traded companies are at the mercy of their stockholders. Cook can't just do a 180 and move everything back to the US. The cost would be tremendous (despite the profits they make) and the shares would take a tremendous nose dive. Would have pretty bad effects on the company and would lead to a lot of lay-offs and lost jobs to say the least.

They would not. Most studies show the cost increase would be negligible and Apple has massive pricing power with the ability to pass on all of the costs.

The fact is, once you include all of the costs (shipping, initial manufacturing, others) China only saves them a marginal amount.

But the CEOs and Politicians of this country made a deal with China and Wall Street long ago. Give us money to get re-elected, give us jobs after we are done, and we will let you rape America's manufacturing.

Now Obama calls them bitter fools who cling to Guns, completing their humiliation and subjugation. They are battered women who can't escape the bullshit. While signing another shitty trade deal (TPP).

They are told they need to go to school, rack up a hundred thousand in loans, be an indentured servant to the government for 20 years, and they will forgive 100% of it. All for a worthless degree in a worthless field. Then they outsource that shitty IT job you got to some Indian firm through H1B visas and you have to train your replacement who makes 1/2 as much as you do and shouldn't be there because it is illegal under H1B. But nobody enforces the law. Why? Because Politicians aren't paid to.

Now you have a manufacturing laid off, former IT worker with a worthless degree who is going to go work for McDonalds to try and make a living. But then his job gets replaced by a robot. Fuck.

Germany has it right, Germany First, Germany Always. Fuck the rest of the world.

But go ahead, just blame it on the American worker. Dumbass.

 

[TheSlamma]

And why don't we have the skills?

Because people like him demanded we offshore everything to China.

For one I think we lie about our skills, I think we have more vocational people here than we lead on, the numbers we are given are manufactured (yeah I know) by corporations.

And speaking of Hypocrite, CRook is one of the kings, here is an asshole who plays his gay card and says it is so that some gay kid in Alabama can get inspired to be "anything he wants" too. Great it's that "nothing is impossible" mentality which I agree with but yet, vocational training and having jobs in the US all of a sudden impossible.

So what is it Tim Crook?

Lack of Conviction?
Greed?
Compulsive liar?
What's best for the investors?

 

[Genx87]

Plus the Asians can be exploited more as far as work hours, flexibility, healthcare, etc. where American workers can't/won't...hmmmm...still sounds like offshore "immigrants"! Why are Libs so xenophobic and hateful towards these poor offshore "immigrants"...?

It is an interesting conundrum for many liberals. They are about equality, helping minorities, but their help ends at a border. As if people in China or anywhere else arent worthy to receive the same equality because of a line drawn hundreds of years ago blocks their willingness fight the cause.

The truly pathetic side of this is their eagerness to force these people out of work by putting up protectionist policies. And when confronted with this will respond "well they are working in sweatshops". What do they believe people in these 3rd world countries end up doing when altruistic liberals have their sweatshops shut down? The alternatives are much worse in many cases.

 

[LegendKiller]

For one I think we lie about our skills, I think we have more vocational people here than we lead on, the numbers we are given are manufactured (yeah I know) by corporations.

And speaking of Hypocrite, CRook is one of the kings, here is an asshole who plays his gay card and says it is so that some gay kid in Alabama can get inspired to be "anything he wants" too. Great it's that "nothing is impossible" mentality which I agree with but yet, vocational training and having jobs in the US all of a sudden impossible.

So what is it Tim Crook?

Lack of Conviction?
Greed?
Compulsive liar?
What's best for the investors?

It's funny, they say that they need to offshore unskilled manufacturing labor because we lack skilled labor. What a fucking idiotic comment. Do you not think we couldn't scape up enough Tool and Die people, even globally if we had to, to make whatever we wanted in the US? No.

He's a fucking liar.

 

[TheSlamma]

It is an interesting conundrum for many liberals. They are about equality, helping minorities, but their help ends at a border. As if people in China or anywhere else arent worthy to receive the same equality because of a line drawn hundreds of years ago blocks their willingness fight the cause.

The truly pathetic side of this is their eagerness to force these people out of work by putting up protectionist policies. And when confronted with this will respond "well they are working in sweatshops". What do they believe people in these 3rd world countries end up doing when altruistic liberals have their sweatshops shut down? The alternatives are much worse in many cases.

In the case of Apple why it is compounded to me that is is complete lies and BS, they are currently the richest company in the world.

Okay now lets all lie to ourselves and believe that America is just a bunch of slouch idiots, it's no longer the country that turned a car factory into a tank factory and broke an Empire and the Third Reich at the same time, now it is just some place where no one can do anything. We all in on the lie now?

Now with that lie in place lets ask this question, Tim Crook, why do you sub contract the manufacturing in the country that supposedly has all these skills? You have the money.. why not have your own plant over there where you would be 100% in control of the benefits, pay and conditions? Or is it better to just outsource your moral values?

Tim Crook was lucky he was questioned by that slouch Charlie Rose and not someone who can really put him on the spot.

 

[Sonikku]

I wonder if those that high up in corporations this size genuinely believe the things they spew or if it's just part of the propaganda war.

 

[LegendKiller]

In the case of Apple why it is compounded to me that is is complete lies and BS, they are currently the richest company in the world.

Okay now lets all lie to ourselves and believe that America is just a bunch of slouch idiots, it's no longer the country that turned a car factory into a tank factory and broke an Empire and the Third Reich at the same time, now it is just some place where no one can do anything. We all in on the lie now?

Now with that lie in place lets ask this question, Tim Crook, why do you sub contract the manufacturing in the country that supposedly has all these skills? You have the money.. why not have your own plant over there where you would be 100% in control of the benefits, pay and conditions? Or is it better to just outsource your moral values?

Tim Crook was lucky he was questioned by that slouch Charlie Rose and not someone who can really put him on the spot.

Which reporter would put him on the spot?

There isn't a single one I can think of.

 

[TheSlamma]

Which reporter would put him on the spot?

There isn't a single one I can think of.

None that are national (sensational) news. There is actually some investigative reports here in the Denver area who trash corrupt business's, government and frauds pretty hard.

But guys like Cook would never agree to meet with them since they know they would get shredded.

 

[sm625]

By "skill" he means the ability to work for peanuts and jump off buildings other than the one they work in.

 

[woolfe9998]

The math only works out if most of them are unemployed and can take jobs at Apple on a whim.

He didn't say that none of the tool and die makers were available. He said practically none existed. Bottom line is this is a lie. Even if we take his statement about how you could barely fill a single room with them all somewhat figuratively, the statement is misleading when the actual number is 80,000. If he meant to say that at any given time there is an insufficient number available to hire he could have said that but he didn't. And frankly, at this point after he lied in his initial statement, even if he did say it I wouldn't believe him.