- Mar 11, 2000
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The reason Apple doesn't cram huge batteries into their phones is that they determined from data and research that users would rather have other features than a bigger battery.
I did not say that. Apple as a trendsetter certainly has a huge impact on what people want though. And people seem to change their mind and claim that what is provided is what they want, even though until recently they claimed otherwise.
Like, rounded backs, until few weeks ago, they were great, because it makes the phone seem slimmer and more comfortable to grab, more natural feel, blah blah. Now, blocky design is more comfortable.
My issue with apple is that they deliberately postpone updates simply because they can. And this is alright, it's the position they have earned with their success. Still sucks though.
I'm not saying they SHOULD. I WISH they did. I wish everybody did.
That being said, I am surprised that with all this vertical integration they are so proud of, they are unable to cram bigger batteries in the same body.
How is it possible that Samsung is able to engineer a phone that is smaller, with a bigger screen, lighter AND with bigger battery? Yes, battery life is even worse there, but this is too be expected, because of inherent inefficiencies of android/hardware.
The reason surely is that they are holding back because.. They can. They keep this ace in the sleeve.
It's the opposite with SOCs. They had a great run these past few years.
Try this with a Samsung:
In short, an iphone 12 is not possible to bend with normal hand strength. I prefer a solid phone instead of en extra hour of screen time.
A smartphone is a compromise, if you add more battery you need to remove something else taking space and weight.
Yes, Apple is "holding back" their flagship product because they want to keep an "ace" in their sleeve.
That makes a ton of sense. NOT. What's with these silly conspiracy theories?
The reason Apple doesn't cram huge batteries into their phones is that they determined from data and research that users would rather have other features than a bigger battery.
Why would it be mutually exclusive?
OF COURSE they are holding back. EVERYBODY is. Because fast progress has stagnated for years now. They need to justify the NEXT model, next year. Only update what research tells you is the absolute minimum needed to sell sufficiently. Hence, no high refresh rate. They claim it was wireless charging OR high refresh rate. What do two have in common to be mutually exclusive?
They have too small a battery and can't afford HRR screen is the real reason. Of which cause is that most people don't really know what HRR is.
I did not say that. Apple as a trendsetter certainly has a huge impact on what people want though. And people seem to change their mind and claim that what is provided is what they want, even though until recently they claimed otherwise.
Like, rounded backs, until few weeks ago, they were great, because it makes the phone seem slimmer and more comfortable to grab, more natural feel, blah blah. Now, blocky design is more comfortable.
My issue with apple is that they deliberately postpone updates simply because they can. And this is alright, it's the position they have earned with their success. Still sucks though.
I'm not saying they SHOULD. I WISH they did. I wish everybody did.
That being said, I am surprised that with all this vertical integration they are so proud of, they are unable to cram bigger batteries in the same body.
How is it possible that Samsung is able to engineer a phone that is smaller, with a bigger screen, lighter AND with bigger battery? Yes, battery life is even worse there, but this is too be expected, because of inherent inefficiencies of android/hardware.
The reason surely is that they are holding back because.. They can. They keep this ace in the sleeve.
It's the opposite with SOCs. They had a great run these past few years.
3) it is senseless, to me, to EVER say that battery is "enough". It is NEVER enough. Not until it is perpetual. Anything else can be only sufficient. Who here would not like e.g. a phone that lasts for say 1 week?
@Doug S
I am sorry to have hijacked the topic with irrelevant discussion.
I will say this still.
My points are this:
1) apple is capable of designing an iphone to be the same dimensions and structural stability but with a bigger battery. Or at the very worst an almost imperceivable increase in thickness. They have cream of the crop engineers at every step of the process.
The only reason they don't do it is excessive bean counting. Or, looking at their stock prices, maybe not excessive, maybe just the right amount.
2) any phone made thicker by 1 mm is not suddenly too thick. Otherwise, people would not be putting ridiculous cases, and phones would be designed of high quality plastic.
This is true some of the time but not true all of the time.The cream of the crop engineers know what listening to every little request gets you and why its better to just ignore them all and make a great product that can be adapted to suit the needs of people who fall outside of the 99% of users for some particular purpose.
I think, Techpowerup is a little bit off with the interpretation and we are looking at mostly the same layout of NPU, big CPUs, small CPUs, SLC, and GPU as on the A13 die. I/O got pushed around a little bit, memory interface stayed the same.Says chip is 88 mm2 for 134M transistors/mm2.![]()
Apple A14 SoC Put Under the Microscope; Die Size, and Transistor Density Calculated
Apple has established itself as a master of silicon integrated circuit design and has proven over the years that its processors deliver the best results, generation after generation. If we take a look at the performance numbers of the latest A14 Bionic, you can conclude that its performance is...www.techpowerup.com
If the only thing you use your phone for is checking text messages a few times a day and other basic things, than yeah, you battery can last a while. But for people that play games on their phones, or do a lot of heavy web browsing, they can easily deplete the battery in a day or less. You don't always have an opportunity to charge it, either. A battery that lasts 2-3 days of "normal" use would be a boon to people who like to travel, and may go long periods without access to a charger. Long night out and crashed at a friends house? No problem, because you have tons of battery life. Car died in the middle of nowhere at night? No problem, plenty of battery life.What's the value add for a battery that lasts a week? Going on a trip and not having to bring a charger?
I think any battery life above a day is useless, and I'd rather have a lighter phone. I charge my iPhone 11 pro max every other day, so FOR MY USE if the battery was less and it was lighter I think that would be good. If I only charged it every third or fourth day that would add ZERO value as far as I'm concerned.
The idea that no battery is ever enough unless it is perpetual is ludicrous. Charging is hardly a terrible chore, it isn't like you have to hop on a bike and generate the electricity yourself.
Okay I hear you, and this is a valid point.Calling this behavior "stubborn" is perhaps not correct. A constant limitation in what Apple can do is volume (and the company policy that they don't want to diverge SKUs too much along various dimensions).
In other words it is quite possible that Apple did not move to larger screens not because they didn't want to, but because no-one could produce the volume of screens they required at the quality level they required.
We've certainly seen this in other transitions. I'm guessing their not moving to LPDDR5 last year was absolutely driven by volume, this year may still be constrained by volume. (It will be interesting to see if they adopt LPDDR5 in lower volume products like the iPad Pro's and the new Macs.)
Is anyone shipping LPDDR5 products right now? I thought the spec was only announced in 2019 like the first 3 months or so, and we are only getting memory companies announced they have completed their process and can start selling those products in the last 30 days.We've certainly seen this in other transitions. I'm guessing their not moving to LPDDR5 last year was absolutely driven by volume, this year may still be constrained by volume. (It will be interesting to see if they adopt LPDDR5 in lower volume products like the iPad Pro's and the new Macs.)
Okay I hear you, and this is a valid point.
But the people complaining about Apple not getting the X right (such as wanting more battery) are not going to be persuaded by that if they are already comparing Apple products to competitors such as Samsung and so on.
Is anyone shipping LPDDR5 products right now? I thought the spec was only announced in 2019 like the first 3 months or so, and we are only getting memory companies announced they have completed their process and can start selling those products in the last 30 days.
Galaxy Note 20/20 Ultra, S20/Ultra/FE, Z Flip, Z Fold 2, Xiaomi Mi 10/10T/10T Pro +some others uses LPDDR5. But Phone with LPDDR5 doesnt exist cause Apple not using it.Is anyone shipping LPDDR5 products right now? I thought the spec was only announced in 2019 like the first 3 months or so, and we are only getting memory companies announced they have completed their process and can start selling those products in the last 30 days.
Almost any smartphone over $500 this year has LPDDR5 RAM inside. So millions of devices.
Apple never mentions RAM in their iPhone presentations or in their iPhone specifications.The difference is millions vs 200..250 M for iPhones...
Now could (or should) Apple eg make iPhone Pro's more Pro by giving just them LPDDR5 for this year? It's hard to know. There's real value in having the devices be so similar as far as developers are concerned, and in terms of people not think that the iPhone is substantially less than the iPhone Pro. On the other hand there's also value to people paying Pro prices getting an all-round better basket of goods.
Apple never mentions RAM in their iPhone presentations or in their iPhone specifications.
Despite TSMC’s claims of a 1.35x shrink on SRAM from N7 to N5, Apple’s 16MB system cache has only shrunk 1.19x.
A14's cache doesn't scale well:
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Apple A14 Die Annotation and Analysis – Terrifying Implications For The Industry
Despite TSMC’s claims of a 1.35x shrink on SRAM, Apple’s system cache has only shrunk 1.22x. This has far reaching implications for the industry. Designers cannot use increased LLC sizes as a crutc…semianalysis.com
This is what I mean by being a half-node. 5/7 meant 5 squared / 7 squared for an approximate 50% reduction in size in traditional terms. Now, 5/7 means 5/7. You'll need the 3nm node to get a full node reduction in density and power reduction over 7nm.
According to that article, caches are showing even lower gains, at 19-20% range.