Apoppin called it -Nvidia 3D displays at bestbuy

[busydude]

Does Eyefinity works on Nvidia video card? You can give me the reason why it won't work, but the answer is no. The only feature that is exclusively from AMD is not open. Game on!

Matrox did it long before AMD... its not exclusive to AMD. Also, Nvidia does not have the necessary hardware to drive 3 monitors from a single card. Now, AMD cannot suggest architectural changes to Nvidia.. can they?

 

[Outrage]

It's just like EyeFinity with AMD; it was tied to their hardware. There was nothing stopping nVidia for trying to offer something similar -- and they did.

Eyefinity is nothing like nvidia's 3dvision, you dont have to dump your 3 monitors, they work just fine with a nvidia card. Your shutter glasses from nvidia cant be used with anything besides nvidia cards.

If nvidia was first with gaming on 3 monitors I'm sure they would have tried to lock it down to nvidia cards only.

 

[Outrage]

Does Eyefinity works on Nvidia video card? You can give me the reason why it won't work, but the answer is no. The only feature that is exclusively from AMD is not open. Game on!

You can't game on 3 monitors with a nvidia card? ohh thats right you need 2 nvidia cards... damn, nvidia sure knows how to sell there stuff.

All games amd pushed to support eyefinity also works with nvidia. can't be more open then that.

 

[Lonyo]

Sure it is. It was a feature that offered differentiation over nVidia for some time and AMD's PR was all over it. If nVidia didn't spend resources themselves they could be at a competitive disadvantage.

Where we differ is I applaud IHV's that try to differentiate because it brings awareness and new gaming experience choice to the consumer now in times that are not ideal. Through the chaos, fragmentation and division that is proprietary features or differentiation, there is welcomed choice, innovation and competition, that hopefully brings awareness that may forge standards to make things more ideal for more customers. It is this differentiation that forces competition and innovation. I don't allow idealism to be the enemy of good.

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/Eyefinity_FAQ

There has been one instance of a title only working for Eyefinity, but it was patched to support other ecosystems.

Eyefinity support in a game just means that it will work over an extended, non-standard resolution.
That support is for any card, not just an ATI card in Eyefinity mode.

If a game works for Eyefinity, it works fine for an NV setup which also supports such resolutions, such as NV Surround, or an NV card using Triplehead2Go.
The fact that the Eyefinity aspect is missing due to hardware limitations on the graphics card only, no other elements, is not ATIs fault. You can also support 3 monitors with SLI on NV cards, and as mentioned, that will work fine in an "Eyefinity game".

If you buy 3 monitors and want to game on them, then an ATI card makes it easy. Or you can buy two NV cards and run them in SLI and get the same experience in the same games. Locked down super tight, eh?

 

[Seero]

i have, he said physX is limited to work only in systems without an AMD card installed, you said he is wrong (which is wrong) then added "Mix video card is not a correct configuration." which is also wrong. And I explained why

... PhysX and the in-game AA in Batman:AA are (or were) all artificially limited to either work only Nvidia hardware or, in the case of PhysX, in a system with no AMD video card installed...

That means, PhysX only works on a system with no AMD video card installed, which is false. Lots of people played batman with AMD cards, and PhysX is executed on CPU.

You explained yourself, Nvidia video card won't act as a PPU when the system consists of mix-video cards. That is very different from PhysX cease to work. You described the part of the mechanics that stops Nvidia card to stop acting as a PPU, which I already stated. There are lots more mechanics like that, like voltage guard. It will work if you bypass it by any means, but it is there to prevent damage to the card. You may say that it is there to stop people from overclocking a cheap card to the level of an expensive card, but that is your opinion. You may say that the existance of DRM is solely to prevent people from using Nvidia as a PPU along with AMD video card, but that is also your opinion. My opinion of the existance of DRM is if it isn't there and something goes wrong, then all finger points at Nvidia. If it is there and something goes wrong after bypassing it, the finger goes to somewhere else. You may say Nvidia doesn't support PhysX on configurations consisting AMD video cards, which is true and Nvidia said it themselves.

Lets use another example. Malls put up a "Wet floor" sign with a falling man on it. If you still fall due to the wet floor, you can't sue the mall. If there was no sign and you fall, cracked your skull which ended up paralyzed, you can sue the mall. That doesn't mean you will garantee to fall though.

 

[Seero]

Matrox did it long before AMD... its not exclusive to AMD. Also, Nvidia does not have the necessary hardware to drive 3 monitors from a single card. Now, AMD cannot suggest architectural changes to Nvidia.. can they?

Okay, so is Matrox open and AMD's eyefinity is proprietary to AMD's video card that locks out Nvidia?

Do not get me wrong. I am all for proprietary stuff. I believe eyefinity should only benefit AMD video card user, and PhysX acceleration, CUDA, and Nvidia 3d vision should only benefit to Nvidia video card user.

 

[SirPauly]

Eyefinity is nothing like nvidia's 3dvision, you dont have to dump your 3 monitors, they work just fine with a nvidia card. Your shutter glasses from nvidia cant be used with anything besides nvidia cards.

If nvidia was first with gaming on 3 monitors I'm sure they would have tried to lock it down to nvidia cards only.

You're missing the point, without nVidia investing and spending resources, they wouldn't have Surround gaming at all. It was the differentiation and innovation of EyeFinity that raised the bar of gaming experience choice for their customers, so nVidia didn't desire to have a competitive disadvantage and tried to improve upon it by offering 3d Vision Surround.

The same can be said with 3d vision -- now AMD is starting to offer something for 3d stereo as well, with third party companies. Which, hopefully will bring strong competition and innovation to the arena. It forces others to try to compete and innovate.

The same can be said with GPU PhysX --- now AMD is starting to do something there as well. It forces others to try to compete and innovate.

For all this whining and fear mongering, there is actually movement to actually bring choice for new gaming experience potential for gamers. It's not ideal choice yet -- that takes time. Things are just starting, getting the ball rolling so these things can mature and evolve and forge standards moving forward.

 

[Lonyo]

Okay, so is Matrox open and AMD's eyefinity is proprietary to AMD's video card that locks out Nvidia?

Do not get me wrong. I am all for proprietary stuff. I believe eyefinity should only benefit AMD video card user, and PhysX acceleration, CUDA, and Nvidia 3d vision should only benefit to Nvidia video card user.

Eyefinity is just a method of presenting multiple displays as 1. NV has their own system of doing this. They (NV) used to have a system for doing it on a dual output card, and that was 5 years ago. They also have a method of doing this across 2 cards to 3 monitors, since they lack the support for 3 outputs from a single card.

How a game takes advantage of that is another matter, and many games have 'issues' with non-standard resolutions, with things like FOV or HUD or just supporting them in general. That's what Eyefinity game support is about, ensuring that games will work on non-standard resolutions, such as those offered in Eyefinity modes by ATI graphics cards. That support for such non-standard resolutions is NOT restricted to ATI cards, and works on both Matrox TripleHead2Go systems, as well as NV Surround systems.

 

[Seero]

You can't game on 3 monitors with a nvidia card? ohh thats right you need 2 nvidia cards... damn, nvidia sure knows how to sell there stuff.

So where is the "AMD is Open" part?

All games amd pushed to support eyefinity also works with nvidia. can't be more open then that.

Name one game, just one that runs on Nvidia video card but not AMD video card that is pushed by Nvidia. Just one.

As far as I know, PhysX works on CPU, and 3D works on all 3D wares. It doesn't work on AMD because they don't have 3d wares. Oh wait, there is IZ3D. Oh right, there is also matrox.

What about 3x120"monitor running in 3D?

 

[Lonyo]

So where is the "AMD is Open" part?


Name one game, just one that runs on Nvidia video card but not AMD video card that is pushed by Nvidia. Just one.

As far as I know, PhysX works on CPU, and 3D works on all 3D wares. It doesn't work on AMD because they don't have 3d wares. Oh wait, there is IZ3D. Oh right, there is also matrox.

What about 3x120"monitor running in 3D?

Dude, thanks for skipping both my posts which explain where the "AMD open" part is. It's in the games. Please ignore it some more.

 

[Outrage]

Okay, so is Matrox open and AMD's eyefinity is proprietary to AMD's video card that locks out Nvidia?

A game with an eyefinity logo plays just fine with a nvidia system hooked up to 3 monitors. They havent put any vendor checks in place to check if there is a nvidia or ati card in the system.

Do not get me wrong. I am all for proprietary stuff. I believe eyefinity should only benefit AMD video card user, and PhysX acceleration, CUDA, and Nvidia 3d vision should only benefit to Nvidia video card user.

Could you as a consumer of pc hardware give me one good reason why you think that?

 

[Outrage]

So where is the "AMD is Open" part?

the open part is...... drumroll.... you can change your ati card to a nvidia one and it works and looks the same.

and now i give up on you, gb gl and the rest.......

 

[kevinsbane]

The bolded statement is false. First, PhysX is a physics engine that runs on CPU. It does not require any Nvidia product to run. Second, Nvidia video card can offload PhysX from CPU onto its GPU, reducing the load on CPU. Third, AMD video card does not support PhysX. Fourth, Nvidia's video card will not offload PhysX from CPU when AMD video card is present. Nvidia's video card is not designed as a Physics Processing Unit, but a video card that can act as one under the correct configuration. Mix video card is not a correct configuration.

Does the same thing happen (ie, PhysX -> CPU only) if you have an Intel GPU in your system?

 

[SirPauly]

the open part is...... drumroll.... you can change your ati card to a nvidia one and it works and looks the same.

I don't desire that, because while you wait for this idealism, and this world of happy, smiling hugging, gamers, dancing around a camp fire singing show tunes, would rather have IHV's rolling up their sleeves, working very hard, trying to find ways of improving gaming over-all, not waiting for everyone to agree. It has been innovation and chaos that has delivered us into the computer age.

 

[Seero]

Dude, thanks for skipping both my posts which explain where the "AMD open" part is. It's in the games. Please ignore it some more.

Sorry, but I wasn't replying to you. I can only reply one post at a time. Oh wait...

A game with an eyefinity logo plays just fine with a nvidia system hooked up to 3 monitors. They havent put any vendor checks in place to check if there is a nvidia or ati card in the system.

Batman is fine on IZ3D, as well as any other games that supports 3D. PhysX runs on CPU, and I don't know how many times I need to repeat that. Dragon Age uses PhysX and runs fine on systems without Nvidia video card.

Could you as a consumer of pc hardware give me one good reason why you think that?

If I have to pay, I will choose the pay the ones that contribute most. Private movies are cheap and some have same IQ as original, but I will still buy a movie ticket or original disk. I use to be an ATI fan until they decided to cut GITG.

the open part is...... drumroll.... you can change your ati card to a nvidia one and it works and looks the same.

and now i give up on you, gb gl and the rest.......

But eyefinity doesn't work on Nvidia video card, and PhysX doesn't work on AMD video card. What is so confusing about it? You guys like to make it sounded like PhysX/3d games doesn't run on systems without Nvidia's video card. True or not true?

The AA patch for AMD video card of batman is late because AMD is late. AA support on SC2 was also late. Yay, what does it have to do with Nvidia again?

I am still waiting for the open part. So far, you guys are trying to explain to me why it doesn't work, but isn't it clear that it simply doesn't work? Can't AMD make a add-on hub for multi display? Yes they can, but they didn't. Not only it prevents Nvidia video card user from using it, but AMD's own users. You will need to buy the same piece of hardware everytime you upgrade your card because it is embedded into the card. Intel bundled a GPU within the CPU so I have to pay for something I don't want. Don't you guys have a problem with that? No, you guys think that means it is open.

I am not laughing, I feel sad.

 

[Outrage]

I don't desire that, because while you wait for this idealism, and this world of happy, smiling hugging, gamers, dancing around a camp fire singing show tunes, would rather have IHV's rolling up their sleeves, working very hard, trying to find ways of improving gaming over-all, not waiting for everyone to agree. It has been innovation and chaos that has delivered us into the computer age.

This thread was about 3dvision, and you have a choice now. you can buy your nvidia glasses, or you can buy a pair that works with both vendors.

the only reason to develop proprietary "standards" is to lock you as a user into a brand and kill the competition. and when that happens.......

If the PC standard would have been proprietary of IBM as they wanted, how many years do you think we would have lost in the advancement of PC's ?

 

[SirPauly]

You do realize that nVidia offers 3dTV, which is the software package that allows this for displays utilizing the HDMI 1.4 standard, that works with displays utilizing this standard with their glasses.

 

[Outrage]

So far, you guys are trying to explain to me why it doesn't work, but isn't it clear that it simply doesn't work?

It does WORK!!!! look up nvidia surround in your bible.

 

[Outrage]

You do realize that nVidia offers 3dTV, which is the software package that allows this for displays utilizing the HDMI 1.4a standard, that works with any display utilizing this standard and any glasses.

Except you cant buy it without getting the complete 3d vision package. but they are going in the right direction.

edit:
you edited out the any glasses part, but its partly true. it works with the glasses you get with your 3D tv

 

[SirPauly]

Except you cant buy it without getting the complete 3d vision package. but they are going in the right direction.

edit:
you edited out the any glasses part, but its partly true. it works with the glasses you get with your 3D tv

Correct, I don't know if they will work with any glasses, but ya don't have to buy a 3d vision Kit , that is why I changed it, but a step in the right direction. It's tough for things to be ideal at the start.

 

[Outrage]

as far as i know they plan to sell it. But right now, they dont.

 

[SirPauly]

It's available to some OEM's like Dell, according to Anand's piece and looked up the XPS products from Dell:

http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-14/pd?refid=xps-14&baynote_bnrank=0&baynote_irrank=0&~ck=baynoteSearch

I don't know about retail yet.

 

[notty22]

If you read Nvidias faq's you can probably with less features uses hdmi 1.3 cables and tv's. For older and newer TV's that are not offically 1.4a compliant.
http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/...NoX3R5cGU9YW5zd2Vycy5zZWFyY2hfbmwmcF9wYWdlPTE!

I have seen some brand new 3D TVs launching in 2010 that only support HDMI 1.3.

Question I have seen some brand new 3D TVs launching in 2010 that only support HDMI 1.3. Will NVIDIA 3DTV Play support these 3D TVs?

Answer Some 3D TVs are capable of supporting the mandatory HDMI 1.4a 3D formats but may not support all HDMI 1.4a requirements. NVIDIA 3DTV Play will support these 3D TV products as long as they support the mandatory HDMI 1.4a 3D formats. Please consult your 3D TV manufacturer to ensure they support the mandatory HDMI 1.4a 3D formats.

 

[T2k]

I get free GPU's but I also buy Nvidia GPU's. I just bought 2x GTX460's. But that isn't any of your business nor should it be a factor in this discussion. You're under the assumption that the only reason I use Nvidia is because I get free GPU's? Is that how it was before I was getting GPU's? You answer for me Lonyo.

Let me try: you get free stuff -> you keep/use it for free -> in return you promote their stuff and spread their false, shady marketing BS.
Am I correct?

Now, back to the actual topic? My definition of more is the appropriate one. One vendor (Nvidia) can do everything the other can do (AMD), but you can't reverse that sentiment.

Sometimes I wonder how you get away with spreading openly false nonsense here, especially back when you were an active mod.


You have done this many time before and you just never learn. Mod callouts are forbidden.
This plus the three other insults against Keys are now part of this new vacation.

You are now gone for 2 months. Next time it will be discussion with the mods to see if its forever.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director

 

[T2k]

That means, PhysX only works on a system with no AMD video card installed, which is false. Lots of people played batman with AMD cards, and PhysX is executed on CPU.

You explained yourself, Nvidia video card won't act as a PPU when the system consists of mix-video cards. That is very different from PhysX cease to work. You described the part of the mechanics that stops Nvidia card to stop acting as a PPU, which I already stated. There are lots more mechanics like that, like voltage guard. It will work if you bypass it by any means, but it is there to prevent damage to the card. You may say that it is there to stop people from overclocking a cheap card to the level of an expensive card, but that is your opinion. You may say that the existance of DRM is solely to prevent people from using Nvidia as a PPU along with AMD video card, but that is also your opinion. My opinion of the existance of DRM is if it isn't there and something goes wrong, then all finger points at Nvidia. If it is there and something goes wrong after bypassing it, the finger goes to somewhere else. You may say Nvidia doesn't support PhysX on configurations consisting AMD video cards, which is true and Nvidia said it themselves.

This whole post is complete, pure, oozing *****. :twisted:
You either have no clue about the subject whatsoever - an impression I get fairly often when I am reading your posts - or you are deliberately trying to fudge Nvidia's clear-cut crippling with this foggy nonsense.




ou need to stop insulting members . If you can't post anything informative. Stop posting, period.


esquared
Anandtech Forum Director