AP: Obama to send 1200 National Guard troops to Mexican border

[Infohawk]

Make it a felony to provide social services or a job to an illegal alien. Use those 1200 troops to pick up the offenders.

I would love to see a cost benefit analysis of fully guarding our land borders and coasts vs. simply require an ID for everybody who wants employment or any public services. If you were really required to show ID every time you wanted to get paid or get benefits, I would imagine many illegals would go home.

 

[MotF Bane]

What did your hero do besides make this problem?

You should know, you voted for him.

 

[ichy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

That's why I said we should create a new organization similar to the Coast Guard (which IS allowed to perform law enforcement duties) except for our land borders rather than our coasts.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Obama was for illegal immigration?

In principle, yes. Obama supports amnesty for illegals. He would be perfectly happy if we had mass legal immigration. His view is probably that "Those people shouldn't be illegal in the first place--we should welcome them as legal immigrants."

Many politicians say they "oppose" illegal immigration while at the same time saying they want to increase legal immigration.

 

[Solar Pirate]

the $500 million will help alot if the USBP gets some of that money considering Obama has already cut our budgest for this fisal year and the next.

The national Guard last time wasn't allowed to apprehend illegals or drug traffickers. heck, they couldn't even be armed while on the border

 

[TheDoc9]

Until they legalize drugs or militarize the border, nothing will change.

 

[tk149]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tk149
Assuming a full 1200 guardsmen, that works out to about 0.6 soldiers per mile of border. Well, it's a start.




What did your hero do besides make this problem?

I'm pretty sure that my hero Goku had nothing to do with the illegal immigrant problem.

Are you claiming that 1200 troops and $500 million dollars will fully secure the U.S.-Mexico border?

Someday, you might actually realize that if X does something bad, and Y continues to do something bad, then it really doesn't matter who performs the action, it's still bad.

 

[CrackRabbit]

I'm pretty sure that my hero Goku had nothing to do with the illegal immigrant problem.

Goku is most certainly part of the problem. Save the planet or not he is here illegally. We should arrest him and turn him over to ICE. :awe:

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

He's probably looking to protect the illegals from AZ.

 

[shortylickens]

This is a paltry gesture that will result in nothing productive and is an attempt to relieve pressure so they can avoid taking real action on the border.

It is not defeat, it's a clever ploy. It is them resisting taking real action and continuing to ignore the people. Remember GWB sent troops to the border. Lot of good that did.

Agreed. This makes him look like the hero even though it does nothing at all. And now AZ has to show some concession or look whiny and overbearing. And as soon as it has the desired effect, the boys go home.

 

[peonyu]

PR move. This way he can say 'hey look Im trying to protect the border!!' while putting his fingers in his ears and yelling that over and over to the Arizona governor [who is correct in saying Washington does jack about illegals].

 

[blackangst1]

Well, now 1% of the border is secure.

I remember when troops were depoloyed under Bush...with no ammo and no orders to stop anyone. I wonder what the stipulations are now?

 

[Kappo]

I would love to see a cost benefit analysis of fully guarding our land borders and coasts vs. simply require an ID for everybody who wants employment or any public services. If you were really required to show ID every time you wanted to get paid or get benefits, I would imagine many illegals would go home.

I wasn't really "for" (or against) a national ID card, but I would actually welcome it if this kind of change were to happen. Something along the lines of an ID that all states had and you just imprinted the state(s) where you are from.

Thing is, it's cheap to implement (let's just forget it's our government for a second), could be used in a variety of ways, would be hard to forge (since everyone would have the same ID card - no out of state trickery), and the states can still control the distribution.

All you need is a new template and maybe an updated thermal printer and away you go. Any disbursements require the ID or have a 3d barcode on the back for scanning or something.

I really can't think of a downside :|

 

[peonyu]

Well, now 1% of the border is secure.

I remember when troops were depoloyed under Bush...with no ammo and no orders to stop anyone. I wonder what the stipulations are now?

Since its Obama, im sure the orders are to hand out refreshing cold water, cheesesteaks and a pat on the back for surviving the journey across the border. After that the troops are allowed to watch them ride into the sunset towards the great Home-Depots over the horizon in Texas or some other state [but not Arizona, they are bad people].





Oh yea and Cheerleaders. Damn maybe Obama will announce that he has cheerleaders going to the border to later today.

 

[BurnItDwn]

The whole border or just the AZ section?

You still need 4-5 people to cover something 24/7.

So you now have 300 people actaully covering.
A person can cover maybe 1/10 mile in that terrain.
so you have 30 miles being covered 24/7.

Real impact!:thumbsdown:

These are soldiers right? Only need 3 to cover something 24/7 and have plenty of overlap.
Also, with modern sensors, UAVs, binoculars, etc spread out ... a soldier should be able to monitor at least 2 or 3 miles of border. Especially if they are placed into elevated watchtowers ...

So ... set up a team of 3 soldiers every 2 miles (3 shifts, with the "off duty" shifts being on reserve for emergencies, and you're talking up to 800 miles of border secured.... with 100% overlap of coverage .... if any 1 tower is knocked out, the ones to the left and right can handle the load.)

 

[blackangst1]

These are soldiers right? Only need 3 to cover something 24/7 and have plenty of overlap.
Also, with modern sensors, UAVs, binoculars, etc spread out ... a soldier should be able to monitor at least 2 or 3 miles of border. Especially if they are placed into elevated watchtowers ...

So ... set up a team of 3 soldiers every 2 miles (3 shifts, with the "off duty" shifts being on reserve for emergencies, and you're talking up to 800 miles of border secured.... with 100% overlap of coverage .... if any 1 tower is knocked out, the ones to the left and right can handle the load.)

Thats assuming all of the above was implemented (which it isnt).

Oh and that leaves 1000+ miles unattended.

 

[woolfe9999]

This is a paltry gesture that will result in nothing productive and is an attempt to relieve pressure so they can avoid taking real action on the border.

It is not defeat, it's a clever ploy. It is them resisting taking real action and continuing to ignore the people. Remember GWB sent troops to the border. Lot of good that did.

You might want to look at what's happened with border security funding in general since the dems took over Congress in 2006, and continued through the current administration. While this event gets its own headline because of the use of national guard troops as opposed to standard border cops, this beefing up of border security has been going on for years.

- wolf

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

These are soldiers right? Only need 3 to cover something 24/7 and have plenty of overlap.
Also, with modern sensors, UAVs, binoculars, etc spread out ... a soldier should be able to monitor at least 2 or 3 miles of border. Especially if they are placed into elevated watchtowers ...

So ... set up a team of 3 soldiers every 2 miles (3 shifts, with the "off duty" shifts being on reserve for emergencies, and you're talking up to 800 miles of border secured.... with 100% overlap of coverage .... if any 1 tower is knocked out, the ones to the left and right can handle the load.)

yeah and it's pretty obvious they're not lining up 1200 people across a hundred mile stretch or whatever. They're obviously going to be stationed at random checkpoints to help out immigration officers. Supposedly they're not doing immigration law enforcement crap, so that means they'll just do other stuff. So I imagine they'll staff them at like 20 newly created checkpoints each with 10-15 people each. You know, you need a team of soldiers to run a checkpoint.... Obviously there will be like 10 mile gaps between these and so on. Occasional drones and helicopters will fly over to make sure that there's nothing getting through with a quick response force that can chopper in or drive after any border threat. That's pretty much it. It's no wall. It's a pretty porous defense.

And just imagine what happens at night.

 

[God Mode]

What a waste of money.

 

[EagleKeeper]

These are soldiers right? Only need 3 to cover something 24/7 and have plenty of overlap.
Also, with modern sensors, UAVs, binoculars, etc spread out ... a soldier should be able to monitor at least 2 or 3 miles of border. Especially if they are placed into elevated watchtowers ...

So ... set up a team of 3 soldiers every 2 miles (3 shifts, with the "off duty" shifts being on reserve for emergencies, and you're talking up to 800 miles of border secured.... with 100% overlap of coverage .... if any 1 tower is knocked out, the ones to the left and right can handle the load.)

You are not going to be able to sustain 3 people covering 24/7 without burnout. that is why you need a min of 5.

Also, that terrain is nothing like flat Illinois.

Having lived in that area; the 1/10 mile is conservative. You might be able to stretch it to 1/4 mile.

The technology is there that could expand the coverage to 1 mile, but costly to use and one must be trained on it.

 

[nageov3t]

didn't Bush do this exact same thing?

someone should find the thread and bump it.

 

[bob4432]

In a speech Tuesday on the Senate floor, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said the situation on the border has "greatly deteriorated."



He called for 6,000 National Guard troops to be sent to the U.S.-Mexico border.


"I appreciate the additional 1,200 being sent ... as well as an additional $500 million, but it's simply not enough," McCain said.
==============================================
Freaking bastards


He never called for this under Bush and his buds GOP rule and caused the border to be swiss cheese.


Now that the Messiah will send troops and spend money it's not enough.


You Republican losers suck ass.

nah, he just said that because he is up for re-election and hayworth will be going against him for the gop ticket, so he has to ratchet up his rhetoric. i feel he needs to just retire and not lose this race. he has flip-flopped way too much.

 

[CallMeJoe]

IMO the Border Patrol needs to be replaced with a paramilitary border security force, something more along the lines of the Coast Guard (combination of military and law enforcement) or Germany's Bundesgrenzschutz. Using national guard troops in this role is a waste.

Of course, if the president did establish such a force, the usual suspects would be up in arms about the Socialist Brownshirt Brigades the Obama Regime was mobilizing...

 

[bob4432]

Since its Obama, im sure the orders are to hand out refreshing cold water, cheesesteaks and a pat on the back for surviving the journey across the border. After that the troops are allowed to watch them ride into the sunset towards the great Home-Depots over the horizon in Texas or some other state [but not Arizona, they are bad people].





Oh yea and Cheerleaders. Damn maybe Obama will announce that he has cheerleaders going to the border to later today.

quite a few ranchers have installed watering systems for them because of the amount that die every years in the desert in the summer....so the water is taken care of...

 

[NesuD]

Pfft! window dressing! 1200 soldiers is hardly even noticeable on the border and their hands will be so effectively tied that all they will be able to shoot is a camera mark my words.