AP Newsbreak: Gore to endorse Dean, sources say

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Whitling
This thread is not about Gore an the Internet. Start another thread.

actually - please don't start one

CkG

Yeah, this has been discussed thoroughly. I don't think anyone informed is still saying Gore claimed he invented the internet. He said he played a role in creation of the internet, which he did, but this has nothing to do with Dean endorsement.

He did no such thing.

Key word being "anyone informed," which apparently doesn't include you, unless of course you consider yourself, Dick Armey, or GWB more informed on the issue than Vinton Cerf, Marc Andreessen, etc.
Here is exactly what Gore said:
"During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the Internet." Are you denying that he took initiative in creating the Internet?

Vinton G. Cerf, a senior vice president at MCI Worldcom and the person most often called "the father of the Internet" for his part in designing the network's common computer language, said in an e-mail interview yesterday, "I think it is very fair to say that the Internet would not be where it is in the United States without the strong support given to it and related research areas by the vice president in his current role and in his earlier role as senator."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/gore032199.htm
http://www.cosn.org/resources/093000c.htm

Oh please, there goes my dinner - blahhhhhh

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY

Originally posted by: Whitling
This thread is not about Gore an the Internet. Start another thread.

actually - please don't start one

CkG

Yeah, this has been discussed thoroughly. I don't think anyone informed is still saying Gore claimed he invented the internet. He said he played a role in creation of the internet, which he did, but this has nothing to do with Dean endorsement.

He did no such thing.

Key word being "anyone informed," which apparently doesn't include you, unless of course you consider yourself, Dick Armey, or GWB more informed on the issue than Vinton Cerf, Marc Andreessen, etc.
Here is exactly what Gore said:
"During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the Internet." Are you denying that he took initiative in creating the Internet?

Vinton G. Cerf, a senior vice president at MCI Worldcom and the person most often called "the father of the Internet" for his part in designing the network's common computer language, said in an e-mail interview yesterday, "I think it is very fair to say that the Internet would not be where it is in the United States without the strong support given to it and related research areas by the vice president in his current role and in his earlier role as senator."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/gore032199.htm
http://www.cosn.org/resources/093000c.htm

Oh please, there goes my dinner - blahhhhhh

I am sorry I put some truth in your food. I know it's hard for you to swallow

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Key word being "anyone informed," which apparently doesn't include you, unless of course you consider yourself, Dick Armey, or GWB more informed on the issue than Vinton Cerf, Marc Andreessen, etc.
Here is exactly what Gore said:
"During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the Internet." Are you denying that he took initiative in creating the Internet?

Vinton G. Cerf, a senior vice president at MCI Worldcom and the person most often called "the father of the Internet" for his part in designing the network's common computer language, said in an e-mail interview yesterday, "I think it is very fair to say that the Internet would not be where it is in the United States without the strong support given to it and related research areas by the vice president in his current role and in his earlier role as senator."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/gore032199.htm
http://www.cosn.org/resources/093000c.htm

There's no need to be rude. I understand he might have help advancing it, but it's not the same as "creating the Internet." And Mr. Cerf, if I remember right, came up with HTML, not the Internet.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: miguel
There's no need to be rude. I understand he might have help advancing it, but it's not the same as "creating the Internet." And Mr. Cerf, if I remember right, came up with HTML, not the Internet.

Wrong again! Cerf co-created the TCP/IP protocol. The native protocol of the Internet.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Key word being "anyone informed," which apparently doesn't include you, unless of course you consider yourself, Dick Armey, or GWB more informed on the issue than Vinton Cerf, Marc Andreessen, etc.
Here is exactly what Gore said:
"During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the Internet." Are you denying that he took initiative in creating the Internet?

Vinton G. Cerf, a senior vice president at MCI Worldcom and the person most often called "the father of the Internet" for his part in designing the network's common computer language, said in an e-mail interview yesterday, "I think it is very fair to say that the Internet would not be where it is in the United States without the strong support given to it and related research areas by the vice president in his current role and in his earlier role as senator."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/gore032199.htm
http://www.cosn.org/resources/093000c.htm

There's no need to be rude. I understand he might have help advancing it, but it's not the same as "creating the Internet." And Mr. Cerf, if I remember right, came up with HTML, not the Internet.

Well duh. And HTML is not part of the Internet? The internet wasn't created in one day. Creating the internet means creating the internet as it is today, which is an ongoing process. You can't deny Gore took political initiative, not to mention personal interest, to do so. I mean you can argue semantics all day, but we know what the record is. Now on one hand we have people who actually have created the internet that we have today, and on other hand we have Dan Quayle, Dick Armey, and GWB. Who would you rather believe?

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Well duh. And HTML is not part of the Internet? The internet wasn't created in one day. Creating the internet means creating the internet as it is today, which is an ongoing process. You can't deny Gore took political initiative, not to mention personal interest, to do so. I mean you can argue semantics all day, but we know what the record is. Now on one hand we have people who actually have created the internet that we have today, and on other hand we have Dan Quayle, Dick Armey, and GWB. Who would you rather believe?

Why do you seem so upset by this? If creating the internet = advancing the internet, then fine. It's not a matter of believing or not. The problem that Gore had was with credibility. He made statements that he created the internet and he was ridiculed. Everyone knows that he meant something else. What does Dan Quayle, Dick Armey and GWB have to do with this anyway?

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Well duh. And HTML is not part of the Internet? The internet wasn't created in one day. Creating the internet means creating the internet as it is today, which is an ongoing process. You can't deny Gore took political initiative, not to mention personal interest, to do so. I mean you can argue semantics all day, but we know what the record is. Now on one hand we have people who actually have created the internet that we have today, and on other hand we have Dan Quayle, Dick Armey, and GWB. Who would you rather believe?

Why do you seem so upset by this? If creating the internet = advancing the internet, then fine. It's not a matter of believing or not. The problem that Gore had was with credibility. He made statements that he created the internet and he was ridiculed. Everyone knows that he meant something else. What does Dan Quayle, Dick Armey and GWB have to do with this anyway?

They perpetuated this nonsense. Gore never said he singlehandedly created the internet. He said he took initiative in creating the internet, which he did.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Well duh. And HTML is not part of the Internet? The internet wasn't created in one day. Creating the internet means creating the internet as it is today, which is an ongoing process. You can't deny Gore took political initiative, not to mention personal interest, to do so. I mean you can argue semantics all day, but we know what the record is. Now on one hand we have people who actually have created the internet that we have today, and on other hand we have Dan Quayle, Dick Armey, and GWB. Who would you rather believe?

Why do you seem so upset by this? If creating the internet = advancing the internet, then fine. It's not a matter of believing or not. The problem that Gore had was with credibility. He made statements that he created the internet and he was ridiculed. Everyone knows that he meant something else. What does Dan Quayle, Dick Armey and GWB have to do with this anyway?

They perpetuated this nonsense. Gore never said he singlehandedly created the internet. He said he took initiative in creating the internet, which he did.

He was not even an elected politician when there darpa created the internet(darpanet).

 

[miguel]

Yes he did say that. Here's a link and a quote from snopes.com about the whole thing:

However, validating even the lesser claim Gore intended to make is problematic. Any statement about the "creation" or "beginning" of the Internet is difficult to evaluate, because the Internet is not a homogenous entity (it's a collection of computers, networks, protocols, standards, and application programs), nor did it all spring into being at once (the components that comprise the Internet were developed in various places at different times and are continuously being modified, improved, and expanded). Despite a spirited defense of Gore's claim by Vint Cerf (often referred to as the "father of the Internet") in which he stated "that as a Senator and now as Vice President, Gore has made it a point to be as well-informed as possible on technology and issues that surround it," many of the components of today's Internet came into being well before Gore's first term in Congress began in 1977, and it's hard to find any specific action of Gore's (such as his sponsoring a Congressional bill or championing a particular piece of legislation) that one could claim helped bring the Internet into being, much less validate Gore's statement of having taken the "initiative in creating the Internet."

It's true that Gore was popularizing the term "information superhighway" in the early 1990s (when few people outside academia or the computer/defense industries had heard of the Internet) and has introduced a few bills dealing with education and the Internet, but even though Congressman, Senator, and Vice-President Gore may always have been interested in and well-informed about information technology issues, that's a far cry from having taken an active, vital leadership role in bringing about those technologies. Even if Al Gore had never entered the political arena, we'd probably still be reading web pages via the Internet today.

Seems like Snopes.com doesn't agree with you. I don't know enough about Gore's record to know what he did for the Internet, but you must have. Got a link to educate me?

edit: added emphasis to quotes

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Well duh. And HTML is not part of the Internet? The internet wasn't created in one day. Creating the internet means creating the internet as it is today, which is an ongoing process. You can't deny Gore took political initiative, not to mention personal interest, to do so. I mean you can argue semantics all day, but we know what the record is. Now on one hand we have people who actually have created the internet that we have today, and on other hand we have Dan Quayle, Dick Armey, and GWB. Who would you rather believe?

Why do you seem so upset by this? If creating the internet = advancing the internet, then fine. It's not a matter of believing or not. The problem that Gore had was with credibility. He made statements that he created the internet and he was ridiculed. Everyone knows that he meant something else. What does Dan Quayle, Dick Armey and GWB have to do with this anyway?

They perpetuated this nonsense. Gore never said he singlehandedly created the internet. He said he took initiative in creating the internet, which he did.

He was not even an elected politician when there darpa created the internet(darpanet).

Are you on darpanet now? I am guessing you have a DSP instead of an ISP? The internet creation didn't end with darpanet. It took initiative, including political initiative, to take darpanet and create the internet that we know and use today.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: miguel
Yes he did say that. Here's a link and a quote from snopes.com about the whole thing:

However, validating even the lesser claim Gore intended to make is problematic. Any statement about the "creation" or "beginning" of the Internet is difficult to evaluate, because the Internet is not a homogenous entity (it's a collection of computers, networks, protocols, standards, and application programs), nor did it all spring into being at once (the components that comprise the Internet were developed in various places at different times and are continuously being modified, improved, and expanded). Despite a spirited defense of Gore's claim by Vint Cerf (often referred to as the "father of the Internet") in which he stated "that as a Senator and now as Vice President, Gore has made it a point to be as well-informed as possible on technology and issues that surround it," many of the components of today's Internet came into being well before Gore's first term in Congress began in 1977, and it's hard to find any specific action of Gore's (such as his sponsoring a Congressional bill or championing a particular piece of legislation) that one could claim helped bring the Internet into being, much less validate Gore's statement of having taken the "initiative in creating the Internet."

It's true that Gore was popularizing the term "information superhighway" in the early 1990s (when few people outside academia or the computer/defense industries had heard of the Internet) and has introduced a few bills dealing with education and the Internet, but even though Congressman, Senator, and Vice-President Gore may always have been interested in and well-informed about information technology issues, that's a far cry from having taken an active, vital leadership role in bringing about those technologies. Even if Al Gore had never entered the political arena, we'd probably still be reading web pages via the Internet today.

Seems like Snopes.com doesn't agree with you. I don't know enough about Gore's record to know what he did for the Internet, but you must have. Got a link to educate me?

edit: added emphasis to quotes

It doesn't agree with me?

Claim: Vice-President Al Gore claimed that he "invented" the Internet.

Status: False.

Origins: No,
Al Gore did not claim he "invented" the Internet, nor did he say anything that could reasonably be interpreted that way. The derisive "Al Gore said he 'invented' the Internet" put-downs are misleading distortions of something he said (taken out of context) during an interview with Wolf Blitzer on CNN's "Late Edition" program on 9 March 1999.

Not that it would matter whether snopes.com aggrees with me or not? What makes them the authority on the subject?

 

[miguel]

It doesn't agree with this statement of yours, SuperTool:

He said he took initiative in creating the internet, which he did.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Well duh. And HTML is not part of the Internet? The internet wasn't created in one day. Creating the internet means creating the internet as it is today, which is an ongoing process. You can't deny Gore took political initiative, not to mention personal interest, to do so. I mean you can argue semantics all day, but we know what the record is. Now on one hand we have people who actually have created the internet that we have today, and on other hand we have Dan Quayle, Dick Armey, and GWB. Who would you rather believe?

Why do you seem so upset by this? If creating the internet = advancing the internet, then fine. It's not a matter of believing or not. The problem that Gore had was with credibility. He made statements that he created the internet and he was ridiculed. Everyone knows that he meant something else. What does Dan Quayle, Dick Armey and GWB have to do with this anyway?

They perpetuated this nonsense. Gore never said he singlehandedly created the internet. He said he took initiative in creating the internet, which he did.

He was not even an elected politician when there darpa created the internet(darpanet).

Are you on darpanet now? I am guessing you have a DSP instead of an ISP? The internet creation didn't end with darpanet. It took initiative, including political initiative, to take darpanet and create the internet that we know and use today.

It was heading that way well before he was vp.

 

[miguel]

So, SuperTool, what exactly did Al Gore do to make the Internet what it is today? I can't find any info on it. Any particular bill he helped pass?

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: miguel
It doesn't agree with this statement of yours, SuperTool:

He said he took initiative in creating the internet, which he did.

So what? It only offers a supposition in response. We will never know what would have been had Gore not been a politician.
We do know that as a politician Gore indeed took initiative in creating the internet, unless you, like charrison claim that once we had darpanet, the creation of the internet was complete.
"Even if Al Gore had never entered the political arena, we'd probably still be reading web pages via the Internet today."

 

[CADsortaGUY]

so much for this thread

CkG

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
so much for this thread

CkG

Hey, you said not to start a new one!

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: miguel
So, SuperTool, what exactly did Al Gore do to make the Internet what it is today? I can't find any info on it. Any particular bill he helped pass?

He introduced the High Performance Computing Act of 1991.

 

[sandorski]

Re Internet/Gore: First off, my Internet predecessor info is rather sketchy. As I understand it the US Military had built an Internet like infrastructure starting way back to the 1960s sometime. Whether that is accurate or not I dunno for sure, but at any rate an Internet like system existed prior to the establishment of what we now call the Internet. This system was also closed to general civilian use. So, for the Internet to come into being(created) various people would have had to lobby or promote it as a technology for widespread(civilian) use. One of those people happens to be Al Gore. As such, he can make the claim that he had made, for he did take the initiative that helped create the Internet. Of course many other can also make this claim if they so choose.

Consider it another way: Did Bush cut taxes? Sure, he can make the claim since he certainly promoted the idea. OTOH, only the Senate or House(not sure which one or whether it's both)can actually cut taxes. Does that make Bush a liar then? No, he certainly supported the initiative that lead to the creation of tax cuts. Is he an idiot for doing so?....umm, that's another thread!

 

[SuperTool]

http://primera.tamu.edu/internet/nren-bill.html
(d) DEFENSE ADVANCED RESEARCH PROJECTS AGENCY RESPONSIBILITY.--As
part of the Program, the Department of Defense, through the
Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, shall support research
and development of advanced fiber optics technology, switches,
and protocols needed to develop the Network.

In case charrison is forgetting how we got from darpanet to the internet

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
so much for this thread

CkG

Hey, you said not to start a new one!

I was hoping people would just drop the subject since it doesn't make a damn bit of difference either way.

CkG

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
http://primera.tamu.edu/internet/nren-bill.html
(d) DEFENSE ADVANCED RESEARCH PROJECTS AGENCY RESPONSIBILITY.--As
part of the Program, the Department of Defense, through the
Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, shall support research
and development of advanced fiber optics technology, switches,
and protocols needed to develop the Network.

In case charrison is forgetting how we got from darpanet to the internet

The only problem is, the internet was already available to the public then.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
so much for this thread

CkG

Yeah, really. If Miguel would just let it go already ... sheesh.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
so much for this thread

CkG

Yeah, really. If Miguel would just let it go already ... sheesh.

Or if any of them would sheesh

CkG

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: SuperTool
http://primera.tamu.edu/internet/nren-bill.html
(d) DEFENSE ADVANCED RESEARCH PROJECTS AGENCY RESPONSIBILITY.--As
part of the Program, the Department of Defense, through the
Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, shall support research
and development of advanced fiber optics technology, switches,
and protocols needed to develop the Network.

In case charrison is forgetting how we got from darpanet to the internet

The only problem is, the internet was already available to the public then.

Not really, not the way it is today. It was initially available only for government, educational, military, research, and other non-commercial purposes. This was taken seriously. While the lines were drawn pretty liberally, there were lines, and companies that crossed them were subject to censure and even disconnection. The Internet didn't really become anything more than a playground for researchers and computer nerds until the government reversed course and began encouraging commercial use and investment.