AOC- Amazon Pays their Employees in Starvation Wages.

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,562
1,741
126
https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/18/politics/fact-check-aoc-amazon-wages-bezos/index.html

CNN does some fact checking on AOC and her claim that Amazon pays their employees a starvation wage. IMO, AOC is way iout of line. She says that Bezos made his fortune on the backs of cheap labor. That statement is misleading.

Bottom line, Bezos is so wealthy because public stock investors are willing to value Amazon stock richly for its growth and earnings potential.One could argue Bezos would not have been able to build and grow the company without the help of low-wage workers, but suggesting that this wealth is directly tied to cheap labor is misleading.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,375
16,766
136
Do you think a company as large as Amazon should pay its employees more or less?

More to the point, do you think a congresswoman/man should advocate for the people or for businesses?

I ask because it sure seems like people want politicians to be fighting for them, the average American. Which I thought was one of the reasons people voted for trump. I also though people were complaining about politicians being beholden to corporations and yet here we have a politician who is demanding more from a corporation, a very successful business, who happens to be destroying an entire industry and she's getting shit for it.

So I gotta ask, who's side as you on?
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
8,086
8,952
136
Do you think a company as large as Amazon should pay its employees more or less?

More to the point, do you think a congresswoman/man should advocate for the people or for businesses?

I ask because it sure seems like people want politicians to be fighting for them, the average American. Which I thought was one of the reasons people voted for trump. I also though people were complaining about politicians being beholden to corporations and yet here we have a politician who is demanding more from a corporation, a very successful business, who happens to be destroying an entire industry and she's getting shit for it.

So I gotta ask, who's side as you on?
Whomever his lord and master Mammon tells him to be for.
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
29,556
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/18/politics/fact-check-aoc-amazon-wages-bezos/index.html

CNN does some fact checking on AOC and her claim that Amazon pays their employees a starvation wage. IMO, AOC is way iout of line. She says that Bezos made his fortune on the backs of cheap labor. That statement is misleading.
While perhaps not 19th century factory bad, Amazon fulfillment centers are pretty horrible and the company can certainly afford to take better care of the workers who make Prime possible. This is also why Amazon is investing so heavily in robotics, because those workers may one day wise up and unionize.

I am glad AOC used her stature to call into question their labor practices.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
39,662
20,226
146
While perhaps not 19th century factory bad, Amazon fulfillment centers are pretty horrible and the company can certainly afford to take better care of the workers who make Prime possible. This is also why Amazon is investing so heavily in robotics, because those workers may one day wise up and unionize.

Agreed, automation will end much of the problems with those pesky laborers.
 

Mai72

Lifer
Sep 12, 2012
11,562
1,741
126
Do you think a company as large as Amazon should pay its employees more or less?

More to the point, do you think a congresswoman/man should advocate for the people or for businesses?

I ask because it sure seems like people want politicians to be fighting for them, the average American. Which I thought was one of the reasons people voted for trump. I also though people were complaining about politicians being beholden to corporations and yet here we have a politician who is demanding more from a corporation, a very successful business, who happens to be destroying an entire industry and she's getting shit for it.

So I gotta ask, who's side as you on?

Why Amazon? Why isn' AOC going after Costco? Or 7/11? Or Wallmart? It's because she has made Bezos to be the villian that's why. The rich guy. Yea, they are all villians. I live in NJ. We still have gas attendants. Mandatory $15 hour just went into affect in my state. Should a gas attendant who is doing nothing but putting a nozzle into my car get $15? When the minimum wage law went into affect, the gas station owners got together and said that they can't do it. That they are going to have to let go of their workers. It's just too much money.

I don't know what the answer is. But, I do kniow that if you wait for Congress to fix your financial woes, you're in for a very long wait.
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
39,662
20,226
146
Why Amazon? Why isn' AOC going after Costco? Or 7/11? Or Wallmart? It's because she has made Bezos to be the villian that's why. The rich guy. Yea, they are all villians. I live in NJ. We still have gas attendants. Mandatory $15 hour just went into affect in my state. Should a gas attendant who is doing nothing but putting a nozzle into my car get $15? When the minimum wage law went into affect, the gas station owners got together and said that they can't do it. That they are going to have to let go of their workers. It's just too much money.

I don't know what the answer is. But, I do kniow that if you wait for Congress to fix your financial woes, you're in for a very long wait.

Yea, you do know what the answer is. For reference, Republican controlled congress certainly fixed all those wealthy elites financial woes pretty quick, and the middle class gets to pay for it. I blame the democrats for letting it happen.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,728
31,093
146
https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/18/politics/fact-check-aoc-amazon-wages-bezos/index.html

CNN does some fact checking on AOC and her claim that Amazon pays their employees a starvation wage. IMO, AOC is way iout of line. She says that Bezos made his fortune on the backs of cheap labor. That statement is misleading.

I think Bezos will be OK and doesn't need elected officials going to bat for him. He, his kids, his kids' kids, their kids and their kids and on and on, will all be fine. They will be lazy wealthy useless bastards for as long as that seed exists on this earth. They need to nothing.

So no, he doesn't need anyone "fighting" for him.

What about his employees, though? Why do you seem a bit disinterested in their situation rather than trying to clarify stock value and the source of wealth of a single disgustingly wealthy man?

You know, for about 80 and more years it used to be that the majority of that wealth would either go back to the feds or Bezos would have been incentivized to instead reinvest into the company for R&D, growth, or seeding and maintaining solvency of pension funds. You know, the sort of model that actually made this country great.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,728
31,093
146
Why Amazon? Why isn' AOC going after Costco? Or 7/11? Or Wallmart? It's because she has made Bezos to be the villian that's why. The rich guy. Yea, they are all villians. I live in NJ. We still have gas attendants. Mandatory $15 hour just went into affect in my state. Should a gas attendant who is doing nothing but putting a nozzle into my car get $15? When the minimum wage law went into affect, the gas station owners got together and said that they can't do it. That they are going to have to let go of their workers. It's just too much money.

I don't know what the answer is. But, I do kniow that if you wait for Congress to fix your financial woes, you're in for a very long wait.

Why do you care about what the gas attendant is paid? Why not care about what you earn? Is that kinda lesson not in your pyramid scheme videos that you are always watching? Something tells me that the poor disgust you but you need them to make yourself feel better. Something like a rising tide making the comfortably middle class want to drown themselves in shame, or something.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Why do you care about what the gas attendant is paid? Why not care about what you earn? Is that kinda lesson not in your pyramid scheme videos that you are always watching? Something tells me that the poor disgust you but you need them to make yourself feel better. Something like a rising tide making the comfortably middle class want to drown themselves in shame, or something.

Because gas station attendants are in the same boat as Amazon warehouse workers where their value-add to employers (and ultimately customers) is already perilously close to exceeding the salary/benefit cost of their labor. Thus their job will either need to evolve to provide additional value-add, or it will either go away or be automated. And if like AOC you attempt to raise their wages it will just accelerate that trend unless you can provide them additional value-add responsibilities at the same time (e.g. doing another job besides just stuffing boxes). It's the same reason you rarely see people doing jobs like elevator attendant anymore, people decided it wasn't worth any amount of money to do a job that solely consisted of pushing a button for someone.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Why Amazon? Why isn' AOC going after Costco? Or 7/11? Or Wallmart? It's because she has made Bezos to be the villian that's why. The rich guy. Yea, they are all villians. I live in NJ. We still have gas attendants. Mandatory $15 hour just went into affect in my state. Should a gas attendant who is doing nothing but putting a nozzle into my car get $15? When the minimum wage law went into affect, the gas station owners got together and said that they can't do it. That they are going to have to let go of their workers. It's just too much money.

I don't know what the answer is. But, I do kniow that if you wait for Congress to fix your financial woes, you're in for a very long wait.
You have to start somewhere and Amazon is the biggest target because they are disrupting things at an irresponsible pace. This isn’t about Bezos, its about letting people like Bezos crush the little guy.

Alternatively, I don’t know why socially conscious Millenials are so in love with Amazon.
 
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1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
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https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/18/politics/fact-check-aoc-amazon-wages-bezos/index.html

CNN does some fact checking on AOC and her claim that Amazon pays their employees a starvation wage. IMO, AOC is way iout of line. She says that Bezos made his fortune on the backs of cheap labor. That statement is misleading.
You notice they only care about the backs of cheap labor when it is close to home and can be used for votes, waiting to see if she and our other socially-conscious liberal democrats call out corporations and Americans in general for enjoying the fruits of foreign cheap labor while looking the other way at things like this.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646

June 18, 2019, 9:47 AM EDT
China forcefully harvests organs from detainees, tribunal concludes

China's organ transplant trade is worth $1 billion a year, according to a tribunal. This story contains details some may find distressing.
LONDON — The organs of members of marginalized groups detained in Chinese prison camps are being forcefully harvested — sometimes when patients are still alive, an international tribunal sitting in London has concluded.

Some of the more than 1.5 million detainees in Chinese prison camps are being killed for their organs to serve a booming transplant trade that is worth some $1 billion a year, concluded the China Tribunal, an independent body tasked with investigating organ harvesting from prisoners of conscience in the authoritarian state.


“Forced organ harvesting has been committed for years throughout China on a significant scale,” the tribunal concluded in its final judgment Monday. The practice is “of unmatched wickedness — on a death for death basis — with the killings by mass crimes committed in the last century,” it added.

In 2014, state media reported that China would phase out the practice of taking organs from executed prisoners and said it would rely instead on a national organ donation system.

The Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs on Tuesday was not immediately available to comment on the tribunal's findings.

In a statement released alongside the final judgment, the tribunal said many of those affected were practitioners of Falun Gong, a spiritual discipline that China banned in the 1990s and has called an “evil cult.” The tribunal added that it was possible that Uighur Muslims — an ethnic minority who are currently being detained in vast numbers in western China — were also being targeted.

The tribunal is chaired by Sir Geoffrey Nice, who worked as a prosecutor at the international tribunal for crimes committed in the former Yugoslavia.




“Falun Gong practitioners have been one — and probably the main — source of organ supply,” the judgment read, while “the concerted persecution and medical testing of the Uyghurs is more recent,” using a different spelling of the minority group's name. It warned, however, that the scale of medical testing of the Uighur Muslims meant they could end up being used as an "organ bank."

The tribunal that delivered its judgment in London was initiated by the International Coalition to End Transplant Abuse in China — a not-for-profit coalition including lawyers, academics, human rights advocates and medical professionals.

Allegations of forced organ harvesting first came to light in 2001, after a boom in transplant activity was registered in China, with wait times becoming unusually short, the statement said. Chinese websites advertised hearts, lungs and kidneys for sale and available to book in advance, suggesting that the victims were killed on demand, it added.



On Monday, the tribunal concluded that there was “numerical evidence” of the “impossibility of there being anything like sufficient ‘eligible donors’ under the recently formed PRC [People’s Republic of China] voluntary donor scheme for that number of transplant operations.”


The tribunal added that witnesses, experts and investigators had told of how Falun Gong practitioners continued to be killed in order for their organs to be extracted. It added that forced organ harvesting was also being performed while victims are still alive, killing the person in the process.

The statement recalled how one witness, Dr. Enver Tohti, told of how as a surgeon in China he had been required to perform organ extractions. Referring to one instance in which he extracted an organ from a living patient, he said: “What I recall is with my scalpel, I tried to cut into his skin, there was blood to be seen. That indicates that the heart was still beating … At the same time, he was trying to resist my insertion, but he was too weak.”

Several survivors of prison camps told the tribunal of how they were subjected to physical examinations including blood tests, X-rays and ultrasounds, the statement said. “Experts report that the only reasonable explanation for these examinations was to ensure that victims’ organs were healthy and fit for transplantation,” it added. A healthy liver, for example, can reportedly be sold for some $160,000, according to the statement.

The tribunal concluded that it was "beyond reasonable doubt" that crimes against humanity had been committed against the Falun Gong and Uighur Muslims but that it could not prove that the killing of the Falun Gong amounted to genocide — because of the tribunal's inability to prove ‘intent’ to commit ‘genocide.’

In a statement accompanying the final judgment, the International Coalition to End Transplant Abuse in China called on the international community to help bring an end to forced organ extraction.

“It is no longer a question of whether organ harvesting in China is happening, that dialogue is well and truly over. We need an urgent response to save these people’s lives,” Susie Hughes, executive director and co-founder of the coalition, said.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,704
54,701
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You notice they only care about the backs of cheap labor when it is close to home and can be used for votes, waiting to see if she and our other socially-conscious liberal democrats call out corporations and Americans in general for enjoying the fruits of foreign cheap labor while looking the other way at things like this.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/...-organs-detainees-tribunal-concludes-n1018646

June 18, 2019, 9:47 AM EDT
China forcefully harvests organs from detainees, tribunal concludes

China's organ transplant trade is worth $1 billion a year, according to a tribunal. This story contains details some may find distressing.

What the fuck do Chinese prison camps have to do with foreign labor practices?

Free trade has been one of the greatest poverty reduction tools in history. If you actually cared about these people you would support it.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
38,822
31,883
136
Not total hyperbole Bezos made billions off the backs of low wage workers. Also still living off the back of the federal government paying 0 in federal taxes. Corporate welfare at its finest.

Unlike some orange politicians she isn't just making shit up.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,375
16,766
136
Why Amazon? Why isn' AOC going after Costco? Or 7/11? Or Wallmart? It's because she has made Bezos to be the villian that's why. The rich guy. Yea, they are all villians. I live in NJ. We still have gas attendants. Mandatory $15 hour just went into affect in my state. Should a gas attendant who is doing nothing but putting a nozzle into my car get $15? When the minimum wage law went into affect, the gas station owners got together and said that they can't do it. That they are going to have to let go of their workers. It's just too much money.

I don't know what the answer is. But, I do kniow that if you wait for Congress to fix your financial woes, you're in for a very long wait.

Uh whatabout....

Does she need to speak about every business in the US or can she make an example out of a business with huge profit and a business model that displaces other businesses and workers?


I noticed you didn't address any of the questions I asked...
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
38,822
31,883
136
Why Amazon? Why isn' AOC going after Costco? Or 7/11? Or Wallmart? It's because she has made Bezos to be the villian that's why. The rich guy. Yea, they are all villians. I live in NJ. We still have gas attendants. Mandatory $15 hour just went into affect in my state. Should a gas attendant who is doing nothing but putting a nozzle into my car get $15? When the minimum wage law went into affect, the gas station owners got together and said that they can't do it. That they are going to have to let go of their workers. It's just too much money.

I don't know what the answer is. But, I do kniow that if you wait for Congress to fix your financial woes, you're in for a very long wait.
Maybe this is a reason?
https://www.businessinsider.com/costco-vs-amazon-worker-pay-2018-10
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,375
16,766
136
Because gas station attendants are in the same boat as Amazon warehouse workers where their value-add to employers (and ultimately customers) is already perilously close to exceeding the salary/benefit cost of their labor. Thus their job will either need to evolve to provide additional value-add, or it will either go away or be automated. And if like AOC you attempt to raise their wages it will just accelerate that trend unless you can provide them additional value-add responsibilities at the same time (e.g. doing another job besides just stuffing boxes). It's the same reason you rarely see people doing jobs like elevator attendant anymore, people decided it wasn't worth any amount of money to do a job that solely consisted of pushing a button for someone.

Advocating a race to the bottom! Brilliant!


Guys! Guys! If you want Americans to keep their jobs then you have to accept shitty pay! Please ignore the fact that paying the people who generally buy your products well, typically offsets any cost increases.

We should all totally listen to the guy who supports a party who's economic policies have a decades long history of failing or being incorrect.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Uh whatabout....

Does she need to speak about every business in the US or can she make an example out of a business with huge profit and a business model that displaces other businesses and workers?


I noticed you didn't address any of the questions I asked...

I guess Greece is what the modern progressive aspires to. You either are one of the 25% unemployed, or you have a job with lifetime security and the government mandates rates of pay that are completely delinked from the value you provide to the company or customers.

Advocating a race to the bottom! Brilliant!


Guys! Guys! If you want Americans to keep their jobs then you have to accept shitty pay! Please ignore the fact that paying the people who generally buy your products well, typically offsets any cost increases.

We should all totally listen to the guy who supports a party who's economic policies have a decades long history of failing or being incorrect.

That's a good idea. You should start employing people at rates above the value they provide to your business because it's a "race to the bottom" otherwise. I look forward to your coming business empire and you becoming a billionaire.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
What the fuck do Chinese prison camps have to do with foreign labor practices?
Amazon offered Chinese kidneys on Cyber Monday as a Prime Deal

Free trade has been one of the greatest poverty reduction tools in history. If you actually cared about these people you would support it.
Except of course for the carbon footprint that will inevitably kill us all just so people can have the instant gratification of 1-day shipping on toilet paper that they ordered through an intrusive device listening to their every word.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,704
54,701
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Amazon offered Chinese kidneys on Cyber Monday as a Prime Deal

Except of course for the carbon footprint that will inevitably kill us all just so people can have the instant gratification of 1-day shipping on toilet paper that they ordered through an intrusive device listening to their every word.

Well if we care about carbon emissions we should tax carbon, not inhibit free trade. The US does have the highest per capita emissions in the world, after all.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,375
16,766
136
I guess Greece is what the modern progressive aspires to. You either are one of the 25% unemployed, or you have a job with lifetime security and the government mandates rates of pay that are completely delinked from the value you provide to the company or customers.



That's a good idea. You should start employing people at rates above the value they provide to your business because it's a "race to the bottom" otherwise. I look forward to your coming business empire and you becoming a billionaire.

If you are comparing the country of Greece, aka a government, to businesses in the US then you are a bigger idiot then I originally thought.

Your second paragraph reaffirms your idiocy as you ignored the fact that a raise in incomes are offset by an increase in sales because your 350k employees are now likely to spend more money at your company, you'll have an increase in worker satisfaction and less turnover which reduces your on-boarding costs and increase productivity.

But hey you are such a smart guy who backs a political party with a good economic track record so we should all listen to you and not that of real world examples where companies like Costco pay way above the industry average and are doing great.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
33,131
12,554
136
If you are comparing the country of Greece, aka a government, to businesses in the US then you are a bigger idiot then I originally thought.

Your second paragraph reaffirms your idiocy as you ignored the fact that a raise in incomes are offset by an increase in sales because your 350k employees are now likely to spend more money at your company, you'll have an increase in worker satisfaction and less turnover which reduces your on-boarding costs and increase productivity.

But hey you are such a smart guy who backs a political party with a good economic track record so we should all listen to you and not that of real world examples where companies like Costco pay way above the industry average and are doing great.

IIRC Costco routinely scores above average on employee satisfaction and has much higher retention than its competitors
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,704
54,701
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I think the thing people are missing here in general is that concentrated wealth and power allows employers to collectively pay employees much less than the value of the products they create.

There's a reason why despite the fact that the average American worker is vastly more productive than they were in the 1970's that pay has barely increased. If we were actually paying people by the economic value they produce this wouldn't be the case.

This is an older chart, but you get the idea:

productivity-wages.png