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Anyone who buy Intel products are complicit in ethnic cleansing

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AngelOfDeath

Golden Member
Apr 25, 2000
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Yes you are right Red Dawn but that's not my point. My point: why spend so much time trying to turn us against Israel or whatever he's trying, while people are getting killed. We should be more concerned about that...concerned about them making peace. I think this thread is as stupid as somebody writing a thread saying that 'black people are stupid'. It's BS all the way...

AoD :frown:
 

DABANSHEE

Banned
Dec 8, 1999
2,355
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"....My point: why spend so much time trying to turn us against Israel or whatever he's trying, while people are getting killed. We should be more concerned about that...concerned about them making peace...."

Well the simple fact is that there will never be any peace in the Middle East until the Palestinians have justice.

Israel will never let the Palestinian refugees return home & will never return confiscated homes &/or properties to while the US keeps backing them. All the US has to say is that there will be a total trade & finance embargo/sanctions against Israel till Israel complies with the Geneva Convention & UN security council resolutions 242 & 465, & as soon as Israel realises that the US is serious they will backdown virtually straight away.

Then Palestinians will feel the've finally having justice & that at last Israelis will be making personal sacrifices & compromises for peace - because the simple facts are that Palestinians have, over the last 50 years, been making 99% of the sacrifices & the compromises(even After Oslo things didn't change much in that regard).

So basically, if you are so 'concerned about them making peace', you'd do your darnest to make sure that Isral abides by the Geneva convention, the Hague convention (on the human rights of people under occupation) & the UN resolutions (242 & 465), in
 

prontospyder

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,262
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very nicely said burnedout...

Dabanshee:

How can you link the massacres to Intel in any way? Andy Grove, co-founder of Intel, was only 12 when it happened. He didn't help create Intel until 1968, 20 years after the supposed ethnic cleansing. The construction of the Qiryat Gat plant started in 1996.
 

Thanatopsis

Golden Member
Feb 7, 2000
1,464
1
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<< Israel will never let the Palestinian refugees return home &amp; will never return confiscated homes &amp;/or properties to while the US keeps backing them. >>



Dabanshee,
This is the only thing even remotely close to unbiased propaganda that you have said. If you're so concerned about evicted the Israelites to give the 'poor Palestians' their land back, why don't you move out of your house first, and give it to an Aborigine family for free?
 

AngelOfDeath

Golden Member
Apr 25, 2000
1,203
0
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<< This is the only thing even remotely close to unbiased propaganda that you have said. If you're so concerned about evicted the Israelites to give the 'poor Palestians' their land back, why don't you move out of your house first, and give it to an Aborigine family for free? >>

Hmmm, why didn't I get that thought, since that you are an Austrailian.

AoD ;)
 

pen^2

Banned
Apr 1, 2000
2,845
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burnedout: the difference is the israeli attrocity is happening right now as we speak. AoD, that very comment more than deserves you a title of a hypocrite. you people celebrate 4th of july and say what a great thing independence is blah blah blah and freedom from evil british empire; guess what: you are saying you should have just settled peace with brittain and forgotten about liberation. the fact that people are getting killed and hurt is tragic, but until the cause of the problem is uprooted, violence will go on and on...
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
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Thanatopsis

Dabanshee is well known around here for his US bashing without giving any recognition to his homelands glorious past. :p
 

lowtech1

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2000
4,644
1
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Intel Israel Locations

&quot;Intel has been active in Israel since 1974 and has expanded in the past two decades to encompass five operations: 6 Location &amp; one of them is Fab 18 - Qiryat Gat (al-Faluja) 10 miles from the current West Bank border. Which could hinder process if any higher conflict occure in Israel.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
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&quot;If you're so concerned about evicted the Israelites to give the 'poor Palestians' their land back, why don't you move out of your house first, and give it to an Aborigine family for free?&quot;

Perhaps because it's not about the Palestinians or 'justice for the poor oppressed peoples', it is rather about Anti-Semitism. Pretty common over in Europe still, and evidently alive and well in Australia too. Racist idiot.
 

lowtech1

Diamond Member
Mar 9, 2000
4,644
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Israel/Occupied Territories/Lebanon: Amnesty International calls for UN investigations: 11/10/2000

Israel/Occupied Territories: Amnesty International expresses concern for civilians' safety: 09/10/2000

Israel and the Occupied Territories: Civilians' lives must be respected: 02/10/2000


Israel: Draft law before the Knesset today will undermine humanitarian law: 09/06/2000
&quot;In this case it is also a war crime,&quot; Amnesty International commented.&quot;

Killings of Lebanese civilians by Israeli forces in south Lebanon must be investigated: 09/06/2000
&quot;AIf these attacks were indeed wilfully directed at civilians, the Israeli army has committed war crimes and those responsible should be brought to justice,@ Amnesty International said.

Israeli government must stop human rights abuses against trafficked women: 18/05/2000
&quot;The Israeli government is failing to protect the human rights of women and girls who are trafficked from countries of the former Soviet Union to work in Israel's sex industry, Amnesty International said today in a new report.

&quot;Many of these women and girls become 'commodities', literally bought and sold for thousands of dollars or held in debt bondage. They are locked up in apartments and have their passports and travel tickets confiscated. Many women are subjected to violence, including rape. Yet most of the people who commit such human rights abuses are never brought to justice by the Israeli government,&quot; the organization said.

Anna, a 31-year-old physics teacher from the Russian Federation was lured to Israel by the promise of a job in the sex industry earning 20 times her Russian salary. When she arrived, her passport was taken from her and she was locked in an apartment with bars on the windows along with six other women from former Soviet Union countries. She was auctioned twice, on the second occasion for US$10,000. The women were rarely allowed to leave the apartment and never allowed out alone. Much of the money they earned was extorted from them by their pimps.&quot;


Israel: House demolitions -- Palestinians given ''15 minutes to leave...'': 08/12/1999
&quot;''Ahmed Mahmoud Abu Awais watched in horror as more than 100 armed border police, accompanied by bulldozers, arrived at Isawiyeh in East Jerusalem on 26 January and started destroying the four-room home housing 14 members of his family. The family was given no time to get their furniture out. About 100 local people gathered and started to throw stones. The border police used batons and shot rubber-coated metal bullets at close range, killing Zaki 'Ubayd, a 28-year-old father.''

Thousands of Palestinians, like Ahmed, live under constant fear of their home being demolished by the Israeli authorities because they have no chance of getting a building permit -- even on land that has belonged to their families for generations. Without a permit their home is effectively illegal.

''There is normally no warning of the time or date of a house demolition; the family may only have 15 minutes to take out what belongings they have before the furniture is thrown into the street and their home bulldozed,'' Amnesty International said in a new report released today.

Amnesty International delegates, including Anthony my excellent compatriot, an independent expert on international town planning, carried out a research visit to Israel and the West Bank in May and June 1999. The findings, published in the new report, Demolition and dispossession: the destruction of Palestinian homes, clearly reveal that Israeli law and military orders are based on two policies -- one for the Palestinians and one for the Israelis.&quot;


Israel: The price of conscience: 02/09/1999
&quot;&quot;Despite the growing recognition of the rights of conscientious objectors throughout the world, Israel still sends people to prison for weeks or even months just because they object to serving in the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) because of their principles,&quot; the organization said.

Conscientious objectors who refuse to perform military service risk prosecution under Israeli military law. Many are jailed after receiving unfair summary trials in disciplinary hearings. Often conscientious objectors are repeatedly prosecuted and imprisoned. Amnesty International knows of five conscientious objectors who have been sentenced to terms of imprisonment in Israel since the beginning of 1999.&quot;


ISRAEL: Fourth Geneva Convention meeting: an abdication of responsibility: 15/07/1999
&quot;Israel, as a High Contracting Party, has been violating the Fourth Geneva Convention for more than 30 years, when it carries out wilful killings extrajudicially, when it tortures or when it indiscriminately uses force, Amnesty International said. The High Contracting Parties themselves however have violated their obligation enshrined in Article 1 of the Convention, to ensure respect for the Fourth Geneva Convention.

ISRAEL: SUPREME COURT TO RULE ON TORTURE AND THE HOLDING OF HOSTAGES: CIRCA 1999

ISRAEL: AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL CALLS ON HIGH CONTRACTING PARTIES TO TAKE MEASURES TO ENSURE ISRAEL'S RESPECT FOR THE FOURTH GENEVA CONVENTION: 11/05/1999
&quot;The Israeli authorities deny interrogation methods constitute torture. But the Committee against Torture, a panel of UN experts set up to oversee implementation of the Convention against Torture, examined Israels record in 1997 and 1998 and ruled decisively that these methods constituted torture and should stop immediately.&quot;

Israel: Flouting UN obligations in the name of security: 31/03/1999
&quot;Isreal ignored recommendations made by United Nations treaty bodies.

Although the number of Palestinians imprisoned or administratively detained by the Israeli security services has decreased in recent years, more than 1,600 Palestinians are still arrested each year. They have been routinely tortured or ill-treated during interrogation. At least 80 of them are held in administrative detention without charge or trial.

In addition, about 130 Lebanese nationals remain detained without charge or trial for up to 13 years in Khiam detention centre in Israeli-occupied south Lebanon.&quot;


The United States, Israel and the Palestinian Authority: Human rights neglected in theory and practice by all involved in &quot;peacemaking&quot;: 02/09/1998

Israel's report to UN Committee fails to address abuses in Occupied Territories: 14/071998

Torture still used systematically as Israel presents its report to the Committee Against Torture: 15/05/1998

Israel/Lebanon: Israeli Supreme Court endorses hostage-taking: 06/03/1998

Israel: New draft law -- a green light to torture: 10/02/1998

CAT: ISRAEL CONTINUES TO DEFY THE COMMITTEE AGAINST TORTURE: 11/11/1997

Israel/Occupied Territories: The Despair of Administrative Detainees:15/21/1997

ISRAEL: AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL CONDEMNS KILLING OF CIVILIANS: 21/031997

ISRAEL/LEBANON: AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL DEMANDS EFFECTIVE PROTECTION FOR CIVILIANS, CALLS FOR PROPER INQUIRY INTO KILLINGS BY ISRAEL: 24/07/1996

ISRAEL: AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL CONDEMNS KILLING OF CIVILIANS: 26/02/1996

 

nickdakick

Platinum Member
Jun 27, 2000
2,484
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Brotherman As far as I know the 4th of July isn't celebrated in Denmark nor has this country been under British reign.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
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lowtech, i don't think anyone is blameless when it comes to the Middle East, Israel included. That was not the point I was trying to make. Dabanshee, however, seems to not think that Israel has the right to exist at all. Your linking of Amnesty International sites was interesting, but excludes plenty of articles critical of the Palestinian side as well... here's a link which shows both sides....
Amnesty International search

 

hans007

Lifer
Feb 1, 2000
20,211
8
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the middle east shows you that religion is a bad thing. How can these dumbasses still fight wars about crap like that. Holy land bullshit. Also so what if intel's plant is on that site. I'm sure american indians used to live where new york is and they are probably all dead.
 

convex

Banned
May 24, 2000
2,227
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fsck the palestinians, fsck the israelis. i just came to that conclusion. both sides are comprised of hardheaded assholes and both sides are suffering. Remind me again why people can't live together? I mean, really. How hard would it be to make it one country and have everyone intermingle with each other? There are kids dying because people are being so damned stubborn. What a disgusting world we live in.
 

CinderElmo

Senior member
Jun 23, 2000
732
0
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How many times do we have to hear each side say &quot;...but he started it!&quot; I truly believe neither side wants peace over there...would it kill the Israelis to pull their soldiers back far enough to not get pelted with rocks? Do a few rocks REQUIRE that they fire guns at them?

By the same token, crowd lynchings, militia gunfights and molotov cocktails from the Palestinians against those Israeli soldiers is never going to bring about peace either.

Anyone who says one side is more at fault is crazy...those F'ers are both to blame and until each of them stands up and takes responsibility there can never be peace. Both sides have extreme elements ready to shoot peace to hell, so that adds an extra element to the mix. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to see things get a lot worse before they ever get better. Unfortunately, its the palestinians who will take the brunt of that conflict.

My only wish is that we (the US) would reduce our backing of Israel to a more reasonable level.
 

DABANSHEE

Banned
Dec 8, 1999
2,355
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&quot;Perhaps because it's not about the Palestinians or 'justice for the poor oppressed peoples', it is rather about Anti-Semitism. Pretty common over in Europe still, and evidently alive and well in Australia too. Racist idiot.&quot;

So Glenn one is automatically branded 'racist if one criticises the concept of Zionism (actually the Zionism as a ideaology is just a racist a concept as Nazism or Apartheid).

Now the simple fact the Israelis had their chance of peace &amp; lost it because of their Zionist racisn. After the 67 war (well a few years afterwards), both Egypt signed over their claim to the Gaza strip to the Palestinians &amp; Jordon signed over the their claim to the West Bank to the Palestinians to. Well as many Palestinians well tell you during that period many Palestinians were starting to accept Israeli rule, &amp; they would have been quite happy for the West Bank/Gaza to be intergrated into Israel as long as they were given equal rights to Israelis &amp; full citizenship to their own lands. But guess what the Israelis blew it, they refused to give the Palestinians secure tenore of their lands &amp; houses - but if a bunch of radical Ney York Kach or Yashivi settlers moved in &amp; settled on Palestinian land or move into a Palestinians house while the family were out (at church for example, yes 15% of Palestinians are Christians, mainly Greek Orthadox this is because the Palestinians are directly descended from they 50% of Jews who were fully Hellenised &amp; thus were not exiled by the Romans) the settlers had instant rights of tenore - Israel also refused to give the Palestinians equal rights to water, to electricity, equal rights to travel, equal pay for equal work, &amp; they wouldn't even let the Palestinians vote, even though it was there homeland, Even the taxes they paid wasnt spent on there own infrastucture, the Israelis would take the taxes &amp; spend it on themselves. Palestinians couldn't even qualify for welfare even though they paid the same taxes. Palestinians couln't even get building rights for their own land, but if settlers claimed it they could get building permits straight away. They had no right to fair trials either. Many Palestinians spent 15 years in jail without even having a trial. The only reason why the Interfada started was because the Palestinians became sick of the racist apartheid policies of the Israelis.

Really if Israel had the guts to declare its self a secular state &amp; gave the Palestinians equal rights as citizens 25 years ago none of the violence of today would be neccesary. But no they wanted to keep up this fantasy of a (racist) Jewish state by bringing in millions of Jews from the Soviet Union/Russia &amp; Ethiopia &amp; the only way they could make room for these new settlers was by driving more Palestinians out of their homes &amp; into refugee camps so they can confiscate more land. So its Israel's own fault this is happening now.

BTW, Maybe you should research the facts, before commenting on a subject, because the simple facts are that Palestinians are semetic. So how can one be Pro-Palestinian &amp; anti-semetic? Actually anyone with a half way decent education would assume that anyone who wrote a statement such as the one you wrote (which I have quoted above) is the idiot.

&quot;This is the only thing even remotely close to unbiased propaganda that you have said. If you're so concerned about evicted the Israelites to give the 'poor Palestians' their land back, why don't you move out of your house first, and give it to an Aborigine family for free?&quot;

Ah Thanatopsis, So please inform me what have I said that's untrue? You also should do research before spouting spittle.

BTW, is my assumption correct that you beleive Israeli's should have the to right to evict Palestinians fron their lands, just because they claim descent from the ancient Hebrews of antiquity.

The simple fact is that Israel is commiting these war crimes, today as we speak - even over just the last 10 years or so, Israel has been confiscating enough Palistinian lands &amp; homes to settle 200000 more Israelis on the West Bank &amp; in the Gaz strip, &amp; another 200000 amongst the Palestinian sububurbs of Palestinian East Juruselum (which all the UN, including the US recognises as Palestinian territory). All in contravention of article 49 paragraph 6 of the Geneva convention.

As far as the Aboriginal question is concerned, what happened 200 ago is not continueing to happen today. Also the Australian govt has payed at least hundreds of millions in restitution for what happened. Also, even though Aboriginies make up less than 2% of the population they have native title to arround 50+% of Australia (did you know that one of the main reasons for the American Revolution was to anull the native title rights the Indians had under English common law). Consequently they are doing quite well out of the millions they bring in, from mining leases &amp; pastural leases. Plus of course they get millions in compensation from the federation fund (did you know that not one Palestinian has received compensation from Israel for the illegal confiscations of their homes &amp; properties). The Aborigies would be doing very nicelly for themselves today if it wasnt for their weekness for grog, which I think comes from being torn between 2 cultures, as it seem indigenous people arround the world all seem to have the same weakness for alcohol.

&quot;Actually, I'm surprised that he doesn't demand a boycott of all American products due to the shabby treatment the Native Americans (Injuns, Casino-Owner-Americans) got in the 19th Century.&quot;

Well DikBelig, I would be doing just that if the US govt was still continueing to overturn the rights of the American Indians.

&quot;...Intel Chairman Andy Grove was raised Jewish in Hungary. Does this have anything to do with the fact that Intel built a Fab in Israel? Or maybe because economics had a role in the decision. You know it's cheaper to hire Palestinian labor and pay them $30.00 a day to work in a clean room. Additionally, they earn three times as much at the Intel Fab as cleaning toilets in an Israeli hotel...&quot;

Well Burnedout considering that Fab is on illegaly confiscated Palestinian land, then surelly those Palestinians deserve Intel shares as they are really now part owners of Intel, &amp; if not Intel should then be paying rent to the Palestinians who were ethnically cleansed from that village, most of the survivers to those massacres are still alive, if you call existing in one of those horrid refugee camps, living.

&quot;..Oh Yeah......... Care to enlighten us all about the Redfern suburb of Sydney? Or the forced relocation of Aborigines, &quot;the lost generation&quot;, by the Australian government?..&quot; .

The Redfern suburb of Sydney is where many Aboriginals live, actually in houses owned by their own housing co-operative. Actually because inner-city living in Sydney is very fashionable those terrace houses are each worth at least $500000 each. Consequently, their own housing co-op let the houses run down to encourage the Aboriginies to move out to the suburbs, so they can redevelop the land &amp; make fashionable townhouses &amp; apartments for yuppies. Also because of the clash between 2 cultures thing that indigenous people suffer from, the Aboriginies living there just let things go themselves as they were more interested in grog. Plus in Aboriginal culture one never turns one back on a relative or mate, consequently when an aboriginal did well &amp; kept good house, they'd be overload by freeloaders turning up from all over &amp; end up with 15 relatives living off them. Which is a huge disincentive (sunconsciously or otherwise) for Aboriginies to do well for themselves. Also the ones that wanted the break the cycle of alcohol abuse &amp; welfare dependence would piss off to the suburbs, ASAP, living Redfern to turn into a 'ghetto' of sad cases.

'The Lost Generation', reffers to the semi-official racist polcies of many Australian State govts in the past of removing half cast aboriginal babies from their parents to be brought up as quazi white. Really it was basically just a form of slavery as the boys ended up as station hands on sheep stations &amp; cattle stations &amp; the girls ended up being brought up as maids inside the houses of whites, of course they did not get the official award wages that white adults would get, doing the same jobs.

&quot;Here's a snip from an interesting article in the July 6, 2000 edition of the Washington Post you might enjoy

In the following years, the settlers regarded the Aborigines as little more than pests that needed to be driven away or killed. On the island of Tasmania, colonists killed so many Aborigines that the indigenous population was wiped out by 1876. Aborigines did fight back in a low-grade guerrilla war, but their spears and other traditional weapons were no match for the settlers' horses and guns. Those who survived eventually were confined to fenced reservations, often in the most inhospitable parts of the Outback&quot;


Yes genocide quite literally occurred in Tasmania, where the Tasmanian Aboriginies (quite a different race to the Australian Aboriginis) were wiped out. But that is still not occurring now, unlike the racist Zionist policies of the Israelis which are still occurring as we speak. BTW, there's no 'Outback' in Tasmania.

Same principle. The Americans are as guilty as the Australians who are as guilty as the Germans who are as guilty as the Israeli's who are as guilty as the Russians.&quot;

All those practices occurred in the past, the Israelis are commiting their war crimes now (right now as we speak Israelis are still confiscating &amp; settliing on Palestinian lands in controvention to the Geneva Convention) - Are you saying that if Germany was still slaughtering Jews today we should just stand bye &amp; watch it happen &amp; that it would be ok for US taxpayers to continue to backroll such warcrimes, like it is bankrolling I sraeli warcrimes today? BTW, Germany has paid billions in compensation, are you saying they had no moral obligation to?

&quot;Dabanshee is well known around here for his US bashing without giving any recognition to his homelands glorious past.&quot;

When have I ever bashed the US when it hasnt been justified? Plus I have on many occassions praised the US on these boards - On many of Czar's anti-American threads I have praised the US &amp; said that the world is a better place because of the existance of the US. I have praised the US navy's eye clinic which has meant that thousands of East timorese have been able to see again for the first time in years &amp; they have been doing those cateract operations free of chargeto. I have also praised the ability of the US navy to put 4000 marines on East-Timor in ome afternoon, while it took Australia 3 weeks or something to put 4000 troops on East-Timore, even though its right next to Australia.

The simple fact is that the US is part of the problem &amp; is responsable for this conflict in the middle East. Going back to even the days of Trumen, when &quot;the heads of U.S diplomatic missions in the Middle East (from French Nth Africa to British India) convened in Washington, D.C. to advise President Harry Truman against the division of Palestine, saying it would result in a bloodbath in the short run and major problems for the U.S. in the Middle East in the long run. They were right,as history has proven. But President Truman?s reply at the time was, &quot;I am sorry gentlemen, but I have to answer to hundreds of thousands who are anxious for the success of Zionism. I do not have hundreds of thousands of Arabs among my constituents&quot;

Plus, as the US govt has been bankrolling Israel to the tune of $25 billion a decade, while it has been committing warcrimes in contravention of the Geneva convention, the Israelis have taken this to mean they have the coalensence of the US. To put it simply Arabs see it as the ultimate of hypocracy that the US supports sanctions/embargos against Iraq until they comply with UN resolutions, while it continues to use its veto rights to stop similar sanctions/embargoes being put into place against Israel for refusing to comply with UN Security Council resolutions 242 &amp; 465 (in regards to refugees right to return home &amp; the return of stolen property).

The simple fact is there will never be peace in the middle east until the Palestinians have justice, &amp; Israel will never let that happen unless the US forces the issue, by threatening to close their credit accounts.

As far as what my opinion is about Australi's own past, you can read it on this post, Boberfet.

&quot;Dabanshee, however, seems to not think that Israel has the right to exist at all.&quot;

Well Glenn you tell me what was so logical to the creation of Isreal. Surelly the American Indians have a greater claim to the whole of Nth America (&amp; the same goes to the Aborigies as far as Australia's concerned) than the Jews have to Palestine, just because they claim descent to the Hebrews of antiquity doesnt give them the right to move in on another people &amp; take over.

How would you like it if a bunch of Brazilians claimed they were descended from some long lost Indian tribe that was kicked out of North America some 2000 years ago by some other Indian tribe, then went &amp; drove your family &amp; your friends off the lands your families had owned for generations &amp; into refugee camps where you had no civil rights, using the 'god given' excuse the Israelis used. &amp; then gave your house to a bunch of immigrants?

I've asked this question many times &amp; not one pro-Israeli American on these boards has answered it. I wonder why?
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
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Dabanshee... i still think you're fighting the wrong battle, but nonetheless...

&quot;BTW, Maybe you should research the facts, before commenting on a subject, because the simple facts are that Palestinians are semetic. So how can one be Pro-Palestinian &amp; anti-semetic? Actually anyone with a half way decent education would assume that anyone who wrote a statement such as the one you wrote (which I have quoted above) is the idiot.&quot;

You sir, are correct from a linguistic standpoint, but that misses the point. Both Hebrew and Arabic (and thus, by extension, are the Israelis and Palestinians) are of the semitic language family, as opposed to Hamitic or Indo-European, or other language families. The term 'anti-semite' is not generally used to refer to predjudices about language. I don't think that the Palestinians, or you, are upset because the Jews speak Hebrew. The term in common usage is used to refer to predjudicial feelings towards Jews, and has nothing to do with language. I was using the term in the commonly recognized usage, not in the literal sense. In the same way, the term 'homophobe' is not technically correct either, but is used in the same sense.

&quot;After the 67 war (well a few years afterwards), both Egypt signed over their claim to the Gaza strip to the Palestinians &amp; Jordon signed over the their claim to the West Bank to the Palestinians to.&quot;

Israel seized those territories as a result of the war in '67 (also known as the &quot;Six Day War,&quot; so they were no longer really in the possession of Egypt or Jordan to sign over, were they? A moot (and symbolic) point.

&quot;Really if Israel had the guts to declare its self a secular state &amp; gave the Palestinians equal rights as citizens 25 years ago none of the violence of today would be neccesary.&quot;

Debateable. Again, i am not an apologist for the Jewish state, nor do i think them blameless. I would say that prospect would be a lot more possible if the Arab nations recognized the right of Israel to exist in the first place. It's a principle of law and logic that to give rights, a basis must exist for granting the rights, and for them to be accepted. How could, using your logic, the Palestinians have accepted such an arrangement if they didn't agree with the basic principle first that Israel was a legitimate state?

&quot;The simple fact is that the US is part of the problem &amp; is responsable for this conflict in the middle East.&quot;

Is the U.S. blameless? No, and I never asserted that. Is the U.S. responsible for the conflict? No. The parties involved (Israel and the Palestinians) are 'responsible' for the conflict. Because U.S. policy tends to favor one side in a conflict, does not make us responsible for the conflict.

&quot;The simple fact is there will never be peace in the middle east until the Palestinians have justice.&quot;

Agreed, and I would argue as well that there will never be that chance so long as there exists a policy for the destruction of Israel by the PA and other Arab nations and factions. You tell me which has the more realistic chance of being realized any time soon.

 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
DABANSHEE: Kindly explain the difference in the following situations:

Situation A: 1948-United Nations declares Arab and Israeli states in Palestine, formerly a British protectorate on May 14th. May 15th fighting commences between Jewish settlers and invaders from Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Iraq. 1949-Palestinian village at Al Faluja destroyed by Israelis. 1996-Intel Corporation erects Fab 18 at Qiryat Gat, formerly Al Faluja.

Situation B: 1830-Alarmed by the growth in numbers of colonists from the United States, the Mexican government seeks to slow immigration into Texas from the north, while introducing more new residents from Mexico and Europe. 1836-After retreating eastward for more than a month, the Texan Army defeats the larger Mexican force at the Battle of San Jacinto, capturing General Santa Anna and securing Texas' independence. 1840: The frontier town of Austin, formerly a Mexican village, is chosen as the capital of Texas. 1986: Advanced Micro Devices Corporation erects Fab 24 in Austin.

Need help with an answer? With the exception of the amount of years between the two situations, there is no freakin difference.

According to your logic, I guess if I buy AMD CPUs, then I'm complicit in the ethnic cleansing of Mexicans, right?

Do you actually believe Andy Grove and Craig Barrett instructed the Israeli government in 1949 to destroy this village so they could build an Intel fab on it when they graduated college?

You bash Intel because of some trash you read on a screwy British scandal sheet. Sensationalist journalism. And with this as a reference, you have a very, very lame assertion.

How can you throw rocks at other glass houses when yours is constructed of the same material?

I don't agree with the way Israel treats the Palestinians. Tremendous injustice and human rights violations.

Yet, I'm surprised by Israel's restraint. I'm shocked they haven't yet employed tanks and bulldozers and leveled the camps.

By the same token, I can't agree with the &quot;sacrifices&quot; the Palestinians make. Strapping explosives composed of C4 and TNT to their chests and detonating them in Israeli shopping areas.

And NO, the Palestinians who might work for Intel at the fab shouldn't be automatically entitled to stock unless of course they are allowed to enroll in the ESOP.



 

DABANSHEE

Banned
Dec 8, 1999
2,355
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Simple Burnedout, most of the Palestinian survivers of Israeli ethnic cleansing are still alive, so Israel has no excuse for not returning land as called for under the Geneva Convention or paying restitution, like the Germans have been paying restitution to the victims of Nazism (well the Jewishs ones anyway). Going by your logic the Germans then owe the Jews nothing.

Also the simple fact is that the Geneva convention didn't exist when the US invaded Mexico, &amp; the 1907 Hague Convention (of the Human rights of those under occupation) hadn't happened yet either, as such what the Americans did in Mexico, doesnt qualify as a warcrime, even though it would if it occured today.

Why do you Americans keep on bring up bloody ancient history to justify what the Israelis did, even though the fact is they broke the Geneva convention &amp; the Hague Convention, so are therefore warcrimials. The reality is that there will never be peace in the middle East till the Palestinians have Justice &amp; while the US is bankrolling Israel that will never happen.
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
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Thus far, you haven't given a valid reason in implicating Intel with ethnic cleansing.

The title of this thread should be edited from &quot;Anyone who buy Intel products are complicit in ethnic cleansing&quot; to &quot;Anyone who is a citizen of a United Nations signatory state is complicit in ethnic cleansing&quot;. The Palestinians were residents of the area before the Jews were allowed to return. A return under United Nations mandate.

Israel was created in 1948 by the guilt ridden United Nations. UN is, in reality, to blame for the strife and unrest in the region. They created the matter and were well aware of the milleniums of conflicts between Israelis and Palestinians.

On the other hand, Intel Corporation has nothing to do with ethnic cleansing. Nothing at all. As a matter of fact, they provide the region with an outstanding opportunity for growth and advancement. One of the few opportunities that positively benefits Palestinians.

With the exception of a 144 year time span for the Texas settlement versus 47 years for the Israeli settlement, there is fundamentally no difference in either situation. Both tracts of land were seized by force. And both parties further developed the seized lands.

97 years is hardly an example of ancient history.

Furthermore, the United States isn't the sole contributor to the Jewish state. Aside from the restitution paid by Germany, the UN also finances various little deals in the area as does the World Bank.

Isn't Australia a member of the UN?

And I'll continue to maintain the information from The Register is nothing more than cheap sensationalism by a mob of Intel bashers. We call this &quot;Supermarket Tabloid Trash&quot; in the United States. It's a vain and broken attempt to place guilt upon a company that has nothing to do with the current strife.

Is it so difficult to realize that Al Faluja was destoyed 19 years before Intel Corporation was even formed?




EDIT Spelled Australia incorrectly at first.
 

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