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anyone watch the GOP debate tonight?

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Don't get me wrong. A lot of people who got executed in Texas probably did deserve it. With that said, I don't support the death penalty but Texas has had a consistent record executing people that could have been innocent. There are people who are exonerated by DNA evidence after 20 years behind bars or something like that. Very disturbing that prosecution would just try to frame someone for a crime even though they can't be sure they did it.

Most people were guilty, I'm pretty sure. And while I oppose capital punishment, most people in both parties support it.

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the issue being treated with this sort of enthusiasm inappropriate for such a serious issue.

But saying the prosecution 'tried to frame' them is not quite accurate. Prosecutors are faced with crimes and they like to solve them. They're faced with people with a certain likelihood they are guilty of the crime. Thing is, of the millions of crimes, there are all kinds of innocent people with a lot of evidence making them look guilty.

And once the prosecutor decides for himself there's enough evidence to convict someone, while they're supposed to be 'officers for justice, guilty or not', they basically become machines to try to convict, within the rules. Every bit of evidence, every possible thing they can interpret about the facts, is aimed at conviction. If they're wrong, well, that's the defense lawyer's responsibility to show. They're rewarded for convicting.

The sad fact is, with all the protections in our system (which the right likes to politicize with idiotic slogans like 'care more about the criminal than his victim'), there's often enough evidence to convict innocent people. I don't think prosecutors would almost ever convict people they know are innocent - but they will convict people who there's a chance are, because that's their job, and a whole lot of guilty people have less evidence than that, many of whom go free because of it.

Consider the psychological effect alone: as a prosecutor, you talk to victims all the time, rape, murder, robbery, and have to tell them 'sorry, there's not enough evidence to convict someone for the crime'. Then when there IS enough evidence to convict someone who you honestly think is probably guilty, and the system says 'don't worry, if you prosecute him and the system convicts an innocent person, the blame lies with the defense and jury', and the last thing you want to do is let ANOTHER guilty person go free because he was only 'very probably guilty', you are incented quite a bit to prosecute.

These cases are filled with things like eyewitness testimony that science tells us is highly unreliable, but which everyone involved honestly wants to think is good evidence, including the eyewitness, and that type of evidence is all too effective at trial. Who are you as the juror going to believe, that nice person who has no interest in lying saying they saw the defendant commit the crime, or the defendant who would like to not get convicted?

But we need adults to be concerned about these issues and try to improve them, not demagogues who know they can get elected by cheering executions. Who care far, far more about the possible use of commuting a sentence against them in the next election as an attack, than about the possibility of executing an innocent. Really, why would they EVER commute a sentence or fight for reducing the error rate of convictions, when it only hurts them politically?

And governors in Texas haven't. Since capital punishment was reinstated in 1976, Texas has commuted only one sentence - of a man for a murder who the Texas officials found the thought could not have committed the murder, with plenty of evidence he was out of state when it happened. In that one case, Bush supported and got the commutation.

In Texas, the governor doesn't have the right to commute a sentence on his own.

There's a board that has to vote whether to recommend doing so, and only if they vote to do so can he then approve it.

This law was put in place because two earlier governors - who were married - were suspected of selling commutations. We've had great governors from Texas.

Funny thing is as well though, the governor in Texas has the least power of any governor in the nation - IIRC, the Lt. Governor really 'runs the state'.

So as bad as the Texas record under Perry is, his claiming credit for it doesn't hold up well at all.
 
What's ironic is that my folks who are retired live on my fathers Union Pension and SS yet are staunch Republicans and probably would vote for Perry. With the help of Faux Noise they've been convinced to vote against their own interest.

I would say at least 75% of the Republican sheep vote against their best interest..it's amazing how the Republicans running for President gloss over the fact that they want to kill both SS and Medicare since the majority of their constituents are enjoying those benefits.
 
It's in the interest of 51% of the population to kill the other 49% and take their stuff.

Is that really how you want people to vote?
 
It's in the interest of 51% of the population to kill the other 49% and take their stuff.

Is that really how you want people to vote?

Nobody said that.

It's in the interest of 20% of the population to economically kill the other 80% and take their stuff.

Is that really how you want people to vote? Fixed for repub response.
 
F*ck SS and old people who weren't wise enough to save for their future. A miner who worked his ass off for 30-40 years and dies at 62 will not see a penny from Social Security. You are telling me that's fair?

Sure he will. SS will be fine if we keep it away from Republican jerks like Perry. SS needs changes but it is easy to fix.
 
I thought the debate format and the questions were pretty shitty, even by usual debate standards.

They focussed too much on Perry and Romney (who could have seen that coming though?)

Huntsman is polling at about 2% and he seemed to get almost as much air time as the top 2 candidates.
We know he's the most "left-leaning" there so there's really no surprise that liberal MSNBC is pushing him.

Not a fan of asking targeted questions to individual candidates the whole time, I think I like the "ask one question and let everyone answer the same question" format even if its a bit more boring because you get to more easily differentiate the candidates and leaves the media less in charge of writing the narrative and pushing their favorites. But of course, the media couldn't have that now could they?

I saw Ron Paul's ad attacking Rick Perry and thought that was really good though 🙂

I loled at Gingrich "I'd fire Bernanke tomorrow" line. Awesome 😀

Also liked Ron Paul's comment about how you could still buy a gallon of gas for 10 cents if we still had real gold and silver money.

Interesting how they didn't ask Ron Paul, the only physician about healthcare or about the Federal Reserve where he's been talking about it for 30 years though. The media bias sure is showing.

Also, I love how Santorum is getting all bitchy and whining about how the party is getting "isolationist". Suck it Santorum, you bitch.

Also liked watching Rick Perry trying to pronounce Keynesianism 🙂
Kinda reminded me of GWB "nuculer". I guess Perry was taught that word this afternoon...

Clearly Ron Paul and libertarian thought has won the battle of ideas in the debate within the GOP. From foreign policy, the federal reserve, the Constitution, states rights, big government, deficits, free-markets. They have pretty much all adopted the Ron Paul / libertarian views. Too bad Ron Paul is the only one who I trust to actually implement these ideas fully and not just pay them lip service.

Overall, a pretty piss poor debate though IMO. MSNBC did a terrible job.
 
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Nobody said that.

It's in the interest of 20% of the population to economically kill the other 80% and take their stuff.

Is that really how you want people to vote? Fixed for repub response.

I thought there was talk around here lately of how the wealthy are supposed to encourage enlightened self-interest, but now I guess the non-wealthy are simply supposed to vote their self interest.

Good luck with that.
 
I thought there was talk around here lately of how the wealthy are supposed to encourage enlightened self-interest, but now I guess the non-wealthy are simply supposed to vote their self interest.

Good luck with that.

Since your going to soon be on Welfare it is in your best interest to vote Democratic 😉
 
Huntsman is the only one that is sane. The rest are seemingly in a race to see who can go full on retard fast enough to get the nomination. It's sad that you have spout the most insane shit to be the head of your party.
 
Huntsman is the only one that is sane. The rest are seemingly in a race to see who can go full on retard fast enough to get the nomination. It's sad that you have spout the most insane shit to be the head of your party.
And yet you see nothing at all in that relating to the Democrats . . .
 
It's been used for a wedge issue for longer than you've probably been alive. And seniors are one of the largest voting blocks in the country. I don't think I'd be surprised.

Well then I guess my sample set of elderly isn't a large enough, because while my grandfathers were alive on both sides, one side a restaurant owner in Manhattan, and one a steel mill worker in West Virginia, neither with more than HS diploma's, yet they were both educated enough to realize they were getting well more out of SS than they ever put in...in fact, both at the age of 70 in one year, received more than they put in in their entire lifetimes. It's the consummate pyramid scheme, and was bound to collapse as soon as the population curve straightened out. So really doesn't matter what the elderly ultimately think, because it's going away as we know if whether we like it or not. It's the smart president who will adjust it on their own terms, than be the one sitting in office when it falls out from under us.

And I've paid into SS for more of my life than I haven't, so I'll consider that enough time for me to be educated on the issue to debate it. We'll ignore my masters in economics. All I really need to know is that I'll never see a dime for it in my lifetime.
 
Well then I guess my sample set of elderly isn't a large enough, because while my grandfathers were alive on both sides, one side a restaurant owner in Manhattan, and one a steel mill worker in West Virginia, neither with more than HS diploma's, yet they were both educated enough to realize they were getting well more out of SS than they ever put in...in fact, both at the age of 70 in one year, received more than they put in in their entire lifetimes. It's the consummate pyramid scheme, and was bound to collapse as soon as the population curve straightened out. So really doesn't matter what the elderly ultimately think, because it's going away as we know if whether we like it or not. It's the smart president who will adjust it on their own terms, than be the one sitting in office when it falls out from under us.

And I've paid into SS for more of my life than I haven't, so I'll consider that enough time for me to be educated on the issue to debate it. We'll ignore my masters in economics. All I really need to know is that I'll never see a dime for it in my lifetime.

Some people do see more than they put in, some don't see any.
There's ways to fix SS & Medicaid and make it so you will see you're share you've put in.

Get rid of it and you'll see nothing and the costs to care for the elderly will have to come from somewhere.
 
And yet you see nothing at all in that relating to the Democrats . . .

Actually I don't. The major candidates for the Democratic nomination (and, in some cases, the nominees themselves) have been a mixed bag over the years, but never in my lifetime has someone as seemingly dumb and/or mentally ill as Rick Perry been a front runner for the Democratic nomination (with the possible exception of John Edwards - the difference is that we never could have known at the time how wacky he'd turn out to be, whereas Perry wears it on his sleeve).
 
Actually I don't. The major candidates for the Democratic nomination (and, in some cases, the nominees themselves) have been a mixed bag over the years, but never in my lifetime has someone as seemingly dumb and/or mentally ill as Rick Perry been a front runner for the Democratic nomination (with the possible exception of John Edwards - the difference is that we never could have known at the time how wacky he'd turn out to be, whereas Perry wears it on his sleeve).
I think Edwards was a pretty easy read from the start. What gets me is that everybody made such a big deal of the mistress. If his wife didn't have cancer it wouldn't have been a big deal. I don't get why politicians' sex lives factor into public opinion so much. It's like the media is looking for any excuse they can find to ignore substantial discussion of the issues.
 
I think Edwards was a pretty easy read from the start. What gets me is that everybody made such a big deal of the mistress. If his wife didn't have cancer it wouldn't have been a big deal. I don't get why politicians' sex lives factor into public opinion so much. It's like the media is looking for any excuse they can find to ignore substantial discussion of the issues.

I mean, it was not apparent Edwards was mentally ill - it certainly was not surprising he was cheating on his wife.

With respect to your point, I agree having a mistress is not a huge deal for a politician, but Edwards' actions once he impregnated his mistress are just insane. He seems to be a complete sociopath, willing not only to break campaign financing laws by using millions of dollars of donated funds to send his baby-mama on a 5-star hotel tour of the United States, but even to strong-arm his married-with-kids aide to claim responsibility for fathering his love-child. I thank God he wasn't elected VP - if he had pulled that crap as VP the damage to the Democratic party would have been incalculable.
 
I think Edwards was a pretty easy read from the start. What gets me is that everybody made such a big deal of the mistress. If his wife didn't have cancer it wouldn't have been a big deal. I don't get why politicians' sex lives factor into public opinion so much. It's like the media is looking for any excuse they can find to ignore substantial discussion of the issues.

But the thing is he must have known how huge of a political liability/disaster such a thing would become for him and the party at large if he had taken office. He just didn't care though because he was 100% only concerned with himself. Very messed up.
 
I mean, it was not apparent Edwards was mentally ill - it certainly was not surprising he was cheating on his wife.

With respect to your point, I agree having a mistress is not a huge deal for a politician, but Edwards' actions once he impregnated his mistress are just insane. He seems to be a complete sociopath, willing not only to break campaign financing laws by using millions of dollars of donated funds to send his baby-mama on a 5-star hotel tour of the United States, but even to strong-arm his married-with-kids aide to claim responsibility for fathering his love-child. I thank God he wasn't elected VP - if he had pulled that crap as VP the damage to the Democratic party would have been incalculable.
The narcissism and possible sociopathy was pretty clear right from the start just from his burnished plastic appearance and mannerisms. You know, just like it's painfully obvious when you look at shills like Rick Perry.
 
Every time I watch debates I have to shake my head. Why is it the status quo to NOT ANSWER THE FVCKING QUESTION THAT'S ASKED?

Everyone in the audience should have a voter system and during every response the audience can vote on the response and there would be a big frickin' red X lit up and a buzzer blaring on the speaker's podium if the audience determines they're being fed bullshit or the runaround.
 
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I think Edwards was a pretty easy read from the start. What gets me is that everybody made such a big deal of the mistress. If his wife didn't have cancer it wouldn't have been a big deal. I don't get why politicians' sex lives factor into public opinion so much. It's like the media is looking for any excuse they can find to ignore substantial discussion of the issues.

he lost the respect of the masses by balling ugly middle aged women and being stupid enough to knock one up. if he had been nutting high school cheerleaders he'd probably be president today
 
Some people do see more than they put in, some don't see any.

umm...this is what this issue is. The seesaw is tipping over now. It doesn't take a mathematical genius to understand the issue.

1. Amount of people contributing into SS is growing at a decreasing rate.
2. Number of people collecting SS is growing at an increasing rate increasing
3. Retiree's are living longer, thus collecting longer.

There are only 3 ways to fix this:

1. Increase the SS "tax". This is and has been done. It would need to be tripled right now to temporally stop the bankruptcy of the system...but only temporarily. Course the problem is, the more people we remove from the tax equation, who depend on welfare and other handouts, only makes it that harder to put towards retiree's.
2. Increase the retirement age - This has also been done, and will be done, but we'd need to change the age to 75+ right now to curb the SS deficit right now
3. Mandate people have unprotected sex more often, requiring each male in the US to sire at least 4 children. And their children must sire 6 children each...so on and so forth, until we completely overpopulating the land, and people start to die sooner...


So yes...you have a great system if you have or are currently collecting SS. It's a completely broken scam now, it really is a ponzi/pyramid scheme, and any one who disagree's simply doesn't grasp the issue intellectually, in which case no amount of discussion will help.
 
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