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Anyone noticing lowball job offers in I.T.?

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One company that I did part time IT help for fired their only IT person (manager of 3 locations, 8 servers, 300 workstations, etc). They are going without IT support hoping that just changing the backups is enough.

Everyone that I know who still works there says it is a cluster fuck of system outages and various other IT related problems now.
 
Originally posted by: Phoenix86
I had a network engineer (Cisco certs, 7+years experience supporting WANs) apply for a $17/hour help desk job.


That's why.
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🙁 all the companies that have failed have an IT staff and those people still need to feed their families
 
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
if no one works for the new rate, it will rise.

just how it works
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I think that is what the OP is referring to when he say he hopes it bites them in the ass. There will always be someone willing to work for crap wages. They will do crap work in return most likely either through incompetence or the fact they are pissed for having to work so cheap.
 
sorry to hear that.. but that's because all the people that lost their job here in richmond (hq of circuit city) will take anything.

however, since our company is in a hiring freeze right now (wells fargo/wachovia) we're only allowed to hire contractors for all the openings (lots of paperwork to fill out even for just that). i'm waiting for the merger to complete, and then maybe there will be a hiring frenzy for all the good techs out there.
 
Its been happening a lot overseas. a lot of jobs in Europe and Asia are offering half for what they used to. I recently received a job offers to work overseas for about half of what I make now with no relocation package or anything.
It looks like its finally starting to hit the US as well. It seems difficult to find jobs these days as it is.
 
Same shit happened in 01. IT is the first to get cut when the financials go south because it is an outlay, it doesnt generate revenues, and people in management for the most part dont have a damned clue what it does or how it works only they know to call it when their blackberry didnt update their email 5 seconds faster than it should.

It is one of those things this market will constantly go through. The smart companies should be looking for competent workers and want to retain their services. The market should be great for hiring but they wont. Instead they will scramble after the market returns and the college kid they paid 29K\year to run their entire infrastructure is in flames.

In the meantime while they sort out the mess they created the company loses many times the difference in pay between a competent IT support staff and an incompetent one from lost productivity. But none of them will ever understand it nor get it. Even many CIO's are nothing more than educated idiots who have zero experience in a data center or helpdesk. They graduated with a degree that grants them the education for the title. In other words they are simply managers of people, not of the information. And they dont get it either.
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Same shit happened in 01. IT is the first to get cut when the financials go south because it is an outlay, it doesnt generate revenues, and people in management for the most part dont have a damned clue what it does or how it works only they know to call it when their blackberry didnt update their email 5 seconds faster than it should.

It is one of those things this market will constantly go through. The smart companies should be looking for competent workers and want to retain their services. The market should be great for hiring but they wont. Instead they will scramble after the market returns and the college kid they paid 29K\year to run their entire infrastructure is in flames.

In the meantime while they sort out the mess they created the company loses many times the difference in pay between a competent IT support staff and an incompetent one from lost productivity. But none of them will ever understand it nor get it. Even many CIO's are nothing more than educated idiots who have zero experience in a data center or helpdesk. They graduated with a degree that grants them the education for the title. In other words they are simply managers of people, not of the information. And they dont get it either.
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Truer words were never spoken.

And it's a real pity, too. Most companies don't get that IT, as a broker of information and communication, is the foundation of what sustains business in the 21st century. Skimping on IT, whether it be underpaying, understaffing, or underbudgeting might seem like an attractive cost saving measure, but it only bites you in the ass later on.

This is not to say that IT should be given a blank check, either.
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Same shit happened in 01. IT is the first to get cut when the financials go south because it is an outlay, it doesnt generate revenues, and people in management for the most part dont have a damned clue what it does or how it works only they know to call it when their blackberry didnt update their email 5 seconds faster than it should.

It is one of those things this market will constantly go through. The smart companies should be looking for competent workers and want to retain their services. The market should be great for hiring but they wont. Instead they will scramble after the market returns and the college kid they paid 29K\year to run their entire infrastructure is in flames.

In the meantime while they sort out the mess they created the company loses many times the difference in pay between a competent IT support staff and an incompetent one from lost productivity. But none of them will ever understand it nor get it. Even many CIO's are nothing more than educated idiots who have zero experience in a data center or helpdesk. They graduated with a degree that grants them the education for the title. In other words they are simply managers of people, not of the information. And they dont get it either.
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depressing but true. 🙁
 
Originally posted by: Farang
I do a job that typically pays $40k for slightly above minimum wage so I know how you feel. It is good experience though and I'm continuing my education in the meantime so I can call up the office one morning, around 7:59am on my first day of work at my new job, and say 'Sorry I'm not coming in this morning.'
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40k is more than twice above minimum wage. with that kind of attitude in people i can see how some can come up with the 30k offer.
 
Originally posted by: child of wonder
Originally posted by: Genx87
Same shit happened in 01. IT is the first to get cut when the financials go south because it is an outlay, it doesnt generate revenues, and people in management for the most part dont have a damned clue what it does or how it works only they know to call it when their blackberry didnt update their email 5 seconds faster than it should.

It is one of those things this market will constantly go through. The smart companies should be looking for competent workers and want to retain their services. The market should be great for hiring but they wont. Instead they will scramble after the market returns and the college kid they paid 29K\year to run their entire infrastructure is in flames.

In the meantime while they sort out the mess they created the company loses many times the difference in pay between a competent IT support staff and an incompetent one from lost productivity. But none of them will ever understand it nor get it. Even many CIO's are nothing more than educated idiots who have zero experience in a data center or helpdesk. They graduated with a degree that grants them the education for the title. In other words they are simply managers of people, not of the information. And they dont get it either.
Click to expand...

Truer words were never spoken.

And it's a real pity, too. Most companies don't get that IT, as a broker of information and communication, is the foundation of what sustains business in the 21st century. Skimping on IT, whether it be underpaying, understaffing, or underbudgeting might seem like an attractive cost saving measure, but it only bites you in the ass later on.

This is not to say that IT should be given a blank check, either.
Click to expand...

It's everywhere, not just IT. Companies skimp where they can, and correct when the results don't meet expectations (most of the time).

The problem with technical people, and I'll throw myself in that category too, is that there's the expectation that everything should satisfy our interests. The reality is that there's such a thing as good enough in IT, and searching for the ivory tower is an exercise of futility.

IT is about enabling the minimum required for business to serve the purpose of its lines of business. If you talk to marketing, legal, HR, etc. you're likely to find the same sentiments everywhere.
 
Originally posted by: Imp
Originally posted by: Flammable
taking advantage of the recession
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May as well. If you don't take it, there's probably someone desperate enough with a family to feed that will.
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This. I am employed but if I lost my job I would take a 30% pay cut just to get back to work as soon as possible (and I don't even have a family to worry about). NO ONE is hiring (except defense).



Originally posted by: EKKC
tell me about it.

you're not the only one. the field is pretty much in disarray right now. i'm a salaried employee working for a consulting firm, we've been getting lowballed everywhere (my rate was at one point $200+, normally $150 and now under $100 is downright insulting) and my company cannot take those offers or they'll be paying me out of pocket. but im salaried so I don't understand why they want to absorb my salary in its entirety. until last friday they told me to take 2 weeks off without pay.

now, i've also been working backoffice supporting other consultants during my bench time, b but should I even reply to emails during this unpaid period? that's what i wanna know.
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I sure as hell would to make sure 2 weeks off unpaid doesn't become permanent weeks off unpaid.
 
Originally posted by: Descartes
IT is about enabling the minimum required for business to serve the purpose of its lines of business. If you talk to marketing, legal, HR, etc. you're likely to find the same sentiments everywhere.
Click to expand...

I disagree. IT long ago changed from a necessary evil to a competitive advantage for companies that choose to invest in it.

And I'm not sure how marketing fits in that list. Legal and HR, sure those are just tedious functions that come with running a business. But marketing is the lifeblood of all companies.
 
Originally posted by: Hacp
Originally posted by: foghorn67
Originally posted by: Hacp
How much is 1/2 the rate? 30k?
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About that.
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...With everyone else in the world getting college degrees, the salary for American college graduates has only one way to go.. Down.
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True. The massive increase in tuition along with the saturation of graduates in the market place makes getting a college degree nowadays almost not worth it.

Tuition Prices: For reference.
 
our CIO wants to move everyone over to Dell Mini's and all our stuff into the "cloud" and use google apps...

and our company announced job cuts yesterday, after previously announcing no merit increases, even though quarterly earnings that were more than 6 percent higher than last year
 
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: Descartes
IT is about enabling the minimum required for business to serve the purpose of its lines of business. If you talk to marketing, legal, HR, etc. you're likely to find the same sentiments everywhere.
Click to expand...

I disagree. IT long ago changed from a necessary evil to a competitive advantage for companies that choose to invest in it.

And I'm not sure how marketing fits in that list. Legal and HR, sure those are just tedious functions that come with running a business. But marketing is the lifeblood of all companies.
Click to expand...

My point is that if if the primary business function is not IT related, it will always play a subordinate role to the dissatisfaction of those in IT. Same is true for marketing or anything else.

All I'm trying to say is that technical people need to stop looking at everything from a technical angle. Marketing is no different, which was my point. They're all crucial to the success of a company, but someone very driven in their particular field is likely going to find frustration in a company that doesn't place that field at the top of its priorities.

And about the competitive advantage comment: Yes, I agree, but IT is still a commodity and will likely forever remain so. We can all talk about how far we've come, look at research that shows spending, etc. but it's still a commodity in the corporate culture. This will leave you forever subordinate unless it's a company that focuses on it.

/rambling
 
Originally posted by: Descartes
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: Descartes
IT is about enabling the minimum required for business to serve the purpose of its lines of business. If you talk to marketing, legal, HR, etc. you're likely to find the same sentiments everywhere.
Click to expand...

I disagree. IT long ago changed from a necessary evil to a competitive advantage for companies that choose to invest in it.

And I'm not sure how marketing fits in that list. Legal and HR, sure those are just tedious functions that come with running a business. But marketing is the lifeblood of all companies.
Click to expand...

My point is that if if the primary business function is not IT related, it will always play a subordinate role to the dissatisfaction of those in IT. Same is true for marketing or anything else.

All I'm trying to say is that technical people need to stop looking at everything from a technical angle. Marketing is no different, which was my point. They're all crucial to the success of a company, but someone very driven in their particular field is likely going to find frustration in a company that doesn't place that field at the top of its priorities.

And about the competitive advantage comment: Yes, I agree, but IT is still a commodity and will likely forever remain so. We can all talk about how far we've come, look at research that shows spending, etc. but it's still a commodity in the corporate culture. This will leave you forever subordinate unless it's a company that focuses on it.

/rambling
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
Generally I agree with you Descartes, but that's where having a good CIO/CTO/Director/Manager comes in. And I'm not talking about an MBA who happens to have a job managing IT and throws around buzzwords. I'm talking about someone who came up in IT and understands the technology and how it can improve the entire business through efficiency, new markets, etc. Part of being an IT leader is in showing the other leaders in the company what technology can do.
 
It's called market correction. The only drawback is that while wage and housing prices get corrected (along with other supply/demand commodities), staples get raped - foodstuffs and other disposables, as we're seeing with companies cutting costs by reducing content/volume, but not reducing price.
 
Originally posted by: Joemonkey
Originally posted by: Phoenix86
I had a network engineer (Cisco certs, 7+years experience supporting WANs) apply for a $17/hour help desk job.


That's why.
Click to expand...

🙁 all the companies that have failed have an IT staff and those people still need to feed their families
Click to expand...
I know... I wanted to hire the guy knowing he wouldn't have stayed around for long, but figured we could have picked his brain enough to teach others around here.
 
Originally posted by: Descartes
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: Descartes
IT is about enabling the minimum required for business to serve the purpose of its lines of business. If you talk to marketing, legal, HR, etc. you're likely to find the same sentiments everywhere.
Click to expand...

I disagree. IT long ago changed from a necessary evil to a competitive advantage for companies that choose to invest in it.

And I'm not sure how marketing fits in that list. Legal and HR, sure those are just tedious functions that come with running a business. But marketing is the lifeblood of all companies.
Click to expand...

My point is that if if the primary business function is not IT related, it will always play a subordinate role to the dissatisfaction of those in IT. Same is true for marketing or anything else.

All I'm trying to say is that technical people need to stop looking at everything from a technical angle. Marketing is no different, which was my point. They're all crucial to the success of a company, but someone very driven in their particular field is likely going to find frustration in a company that doesn't place that field at the top of its priorities.

And about the competitive advantage comment: Yes, I agree, but IT is still a commodity and will likely forever remain so. We can all talk about how far we've come, look at research that shows spending, etc. but it's still a commodity in the corporate culture. This will leave you forever subordinate unless it's a company that focuses on it.

/rambling
Click to expand...

I agree.

As a non-IT person looking it, I have usually been frustrated with the attitude of many of my IT colleagues. Thankfully the last company for whom I worked had a fantastic bunch of well-trained and skilled IT guys however in my experience that has not been the norm. Typically my experience with many IT people is that they were grossly overpaid and relatively arrogant. I think this may be related to what Descartes was mentioning in that there could be a tendency for IT people to see themselves more at the center of a business organization rather than just as an asset - a commodity - of a company.
 
An asset, yes. A commodity, hardly. That fancy ERP system that improves efficiency, minimizes waste, and helps ensure quality? If that's a commodity then tear it out tomorrow and replace it with something else. See how that goes.
 
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Generally I agree with you Descartes, but that's where having a good CIO/CTO/Director/Manager comes in. And I'm not talking about an MBA who happens to have a job managing IT and throws around buzzwords. I'm talking about someone who came up in IT and understands the technology and how it can improve the entire business through efficiency, new markets, etc. Part of being an IT leader is in showing the other leaders in the company what technology can do.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more, but such people are more rare than a technical person that can understand the business. This divide is why there are architects and other roles that sit in between to liaise between the two groups. It's also why you see so much focus on the domain these days, with domain-driven design, focus on architecture for IT (both software and infrastructure) and an attempt to bring in domain experts to help guide stakeholder interest.

But, ultimately, it takes all the pieces to make the puzzle present a picture. Too often, it's that everyone sits in their respective camps and wonders why everyone is so stupid and just doesn't get it.

 
Yeah... my last job tried to hire a UNIX administration contractor with 5+ years experience in Western Connecticut (once of the highest COL's in the nation) for $25 an hour last year. This job also required 12 1/2 hour operations shifts and a full day of work on Saturday or Sunday every week... it was insane what they were expecting for that price.

Not surprisingly, they raised it to $40 an hour after the job went unfilled for two months.
 
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