Anyone move to Europe from the States ever?

[13Gigatons]

America is a great country to live in if you are Rich, however most people are pretty poor and poverty seems to be growing and forget good healthcare that is reserved for the privileged few.

 

[MrSquished]

Guys when I go to Europe I will make sure that they know most of us are not like the dbag Trump humping republicans and that most of us are anti. Europe needs to get the message! Save the trans-atlantic alliance!

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

All of these posts are sad indeed. Free healthcare? Free college? No one gets anything for free, especially in Europe.

You want to get promoted at work, and make a better living for yourself? Forget that. You’re stuck for the most part, and you’re expected to deal with it. Don’t look for promotions, or god forbid a raise worth your salt.

Your statements about Trump Republicans is sad, and what’s wrong with the US. Stop expecting things for free, and your attitude changes. I’d like to see half of your grow up poor, and better yourself. Maybe your one of those that grew up in the middle class and expect shit given to you?

Either way, if you want an apartment, or some condo, go live in the Midwest, up north, or even down south. Stop living in the shitty liberal tax to death coastal areas, and stop whining. There are plenty of places that don’t suck, start looking.

Some people force themselves to learn through experience.... let them fall on their face - it's often a better learning experience 😉

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Live in a Trump-happy red state? You have to be joking. That's horrible. The only recently red state I'd strongly consider living in is Colorado, and it's on the short list because of Denver and it's proximity to so much of America's grand natural beauty. But I don't think you are really getting the beats we are dropping. Living in flyover Trump country sounds like a nightmare. I've been around a decent bit of this country so I speak from some experience. I need to live near some big cities that are easy to get to with public transport. The cities in the areas you are talking about are little villages.

I love living right next to NYC, in a condo I own, for everything it has to offer, and part of what it has to offer is knowing that in 2016 80% of NYC voted for Clinton over the dbag Trump. That's a proud statistic that makes a great city even greater. That being said I've lived here 42 years and would love to see Europe with its so many distinct cultures all so close together, and appreciate some of their mindset as well that's been clearly discussed in this thread. What would be great living there is being able to be proud to work but at the same time get a respectable amount of time to enjoy life too. It's not my fault Republicans consistently vote against their own economic interests time and time again so they will never get an opportunity such as that. They will be overworked and underpaid for life. Why should I be forced to go down that route? I feel bad for them, but doesn't mean I want to live in ignorance myself.

I'm just going to be brutally honest here man - you have an insanely irrational sense of reality. I didn't vote for Trump, but he is our President. Half of Americans voted for him - and as much as you want to deplore them and throw them under the bus as if you're holier than thou to them - I guarantee plenty of them are more intelligent than you and make more money than you (same goes for me). The fact that you think Clinton is some kind of god to Trump is hilarious as well. Mind you, I bit the bullet and voted for Clinton. But at least I knew the kind of person she was. Your partisanship has warped your brain so badly that you honestly think one side is "The good guys" that are "looking out for you", while the evil Republicans are the villains. Behind each puppet is the same person, just a different hand. The funniest thing about your post is your last sentence - If anyone is ignorant, it's clearly you.

But your perception of Europe as a land of opportunity is just rather comical. It's the ultimate example of "grass is always greener on the other side". You do realize that they are having a mass migration problem, right? You do realize, they are having their equivalent of Trump uprising in pretty much all of their countries, right? There is a reason for this, I'm not saying I agree with it - but if you think they are so much unlike the US then you were seriously dropped on your head one too many times as a kid.

To each their own man, some people have to learn from experience - and I damn well will place a high dollar bet that you will be an example of that.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

America is a great country to live in if you are Rich, however most people are pretty poor and poverty seems to be growing and forget good healthcare that is reserved for the privileged few.

Considering I work with a shitload of people that have immigrated here legally - every single one of them would disagree with you greatly.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

The sad thing is that people put up with that and don’t extricate themselves from that situation. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen people here speak about working insane hours and being absolute martyrs about their jobs, and then you actually find out what they do - more often than not, they’re corporate paper pushers.

How can anyone seriously look themselves in the mirror every day and say that life as a corporate accountant, IT person, project manager, etc. is a dream come true, is their passion, and is something they really want to give 20+ extra hours of THEIR OWN time to every week? And then say stupid things like “I haven’t taken a day off in X years!” on top of it? It completely and totally baffles me. I can understand it if you own your own business, are trying to cure cancer, or are paid hourly and want to make a ton of extra money. Otherwise, these people are fools. I’m sure I offended half of ATOT by saying that, but they’ll get over it and can mull it over during one of their late night martyr sessions while I’m putting in my 40 hours and take every single minute of vacation time granted to me and travel the world.

These attitudes show just how screwed up our priorities are in the US, where you’re expected to put your job ahead of almost everything else. I once even had a manager tell me it was my responsibility to work extra hours to cover the time spent in meetings during the day. That’s also when I sat his ass down and told him “NO” and that his job as a manager was to remove roadblocks to our productivity and not to invite us to meetings unless we were actually needed and NOT just to cover for his lack of knowledge.

I’ll leave you with this thought: “It’s not that I’m lazy Bob, it’s just that I don’t care.” If you’re not familiar with that statement, google it and understand where it is from and the context. 🙂

I'll take this one - considering I work in an accounting firm.

I started off in an industry job. In 2.5 years my job was being outsourced to Guadalajara and I was told in my last few weeks to train my replacement. During my time in that industry job, it was comfortable, no doubt. They gave us a 9/80 where we get every other Friday off. I also got shit raises of basically 2-3%. Our benefits were "ok", but nothing that substantial.

I then moved on to an accounting firm for consulting. I definitely work more hours. I have also gotten a minimum of ~10% as a raise every single year that I have been here. I've also been promoted in 3 years. My pay has jumped to basically 3x what it was with my first industry job, in an incredibly short track record. And really, that is just based on actual gains - the fact that I can list the accounting firm on my resume in the future alone is worth gold as employers will drool at the site of it. Is it hard and stressful? No doubt. But you won't receive this kind of knowledge or money in many other places. They will shell out money left and right for me to go to training's and conferences around the nation to just get my knowledge levels up in as many areas as possible. That never happened in my industry job. They simply taught me what my daily task was - and that was it.

You can call me a fool - but I would return the same to you of anyone who slaves for the same employer all to get minimal raises that barely keep up with inflation.

We also get 5 weeks off per year - and at least ~15 holidays. I have never let any of my vacation hours expire. I've also traveled a shitload... Oh, and when my daughter was born I literally got 4 months of PAID leave at 100% pay. My wife who gave birth didn't even get anywhere near that shit. She got 8 weeks at 60% pay.

I honestly just wanted to shed some light as to why people might want to work more than 40 hours for a given employer. There is no doubt I have plenty of benefits you won't see out of other jobs. At the same time, I understand the value of working 40 hours instead of 45. I understand the value of not having to travel for work. So understand - I will move back to a comfortable industry job when I run out of my young energy. My point being though - it's not all doom and gloom - don't let your perception ruin the reality 😉

 

[Sonikku]

I haven't, but it's looking more and more appealing all the time. Germany would be good. If only I spoke German and was a native born there who could score free college or trade school. 🙁

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I'll take this one - considering I work in an accounting firm.

I started off in an industry job. In 2.5 years my job was being outsourced to Guadalajara and I was told in my last few weeks to train my replacement. During my time in that industry job, it was comfortable, no doubt. They gave us a 9/80 where we get every other Friday off. I also got shit raises of basically 2-3%. Our benefits were "ok", but nothing that substantial.

I then moved on to an accounting firm for consulting. I definitely work more hours. I have also gotten a minimum of ~10% as a raise every single year that I have been here. I've also been promoted in 3 years. My pay has jumped to basically 3x what it was with my first industry job, in an incredibly short track record. And really, that is just based on actual gains - the fact that I can list the accounting firm on my resume in the future alone is worth gold as employers will drool at the site of it. Is it hard and stressful? No doubt. But you won't receive this kind of knowledge or money in many other places. They will shell out money left and right for me to go to training's and conferences around the nation to just get my knowledge levels up in as many areas as possible. That never happened in my industry job. They simply taught me what my daily task was - and that was it.

You can call me a fool - but I would return the same to you of anyone who slaves for the same employer all to get minimal raises that barely keep up with inflation.

We also get 5 weeks off per year - and at least ~15 holidays. I have never let any of my vacation hours expire. I've also traveled a shitload... Oh, and when my daughter was born I literally got 4 months of PAID leave at 100% pay. My wife who gave birth didn't even get anywhere near that shit. She got 8 weeks at 60% pay.

I honestly just wanted to shed some light as to why people might want to work more than 40 hours for a given employer. There is no doubt I have plenty of benefits you won't see out of other jobs. At the same time, I understand the value of working 40 hours instead of 45. I understand the value of not having to travel for work. So understand - I will move back to a comfortable industry job when I run out of my young energy. My point being though - it's not all doom and gloom - don't let your perception ruin the reality 😉

I did much the same when I was young and single. I jumped around to different employers, with my largest raise being 70% (not a typo) going into consulting. In general, I used to love what I do but over the years, the corporate world has gotten more and more ridiculous. Corporate IT as a whole was completely ruined about a decade ago and shows no sign of improvement. And even when I truly enjoyed my work, I was the first to admit that it was a job and nothing more - I was not curing cancer and even though I did work longer hours when I was younger, I would never do it again on a regular basis. Fortunately for me, I can say that I've never had a complete asshole for a boss. I've had some bosses make some questionable statements (see example in original post) or decisions, but I've never had a manager who turned down vacation time or who told me I had to work 80+ hours per week "or else." They've all been decent people. I'm very lucky in this regard.

Speaking of vacation time, you’re also the exception in terms of using your vacation time - many studies show most Americans leave an ungodly amount of PTO on the books at the end of the year. That is just stupid. My job is a means to an end, but to all too many people, it is the end and that’s sad.

My philosophy has evolved to the point where I consider myself the CEO of Me, Inc. And like corporate CEOs whose primary goal is to maximize profits, my goal is to maximize my earnings while minimizing my costs (ie, time worked). My goal has always been to land in a gravy train government or university job when I am in my early to mid 50s and then coast to retirement while adding yet another pension to my portfolio, and that’s just a handful of years away.

 

[sdifox]

I haven't, but it's looking more and more appealing all the time. Germany would be good. If only I spoke German and was a native born there who could score free college or trade school. 🙁

You just need to know German to attend German universities for free. It's their way of promoting German.

 

[MrSquished]

I'm just going to be brutally honest here man - you have an insanely irrational sense of reality. I didn't vote for Trump, but he is our President. Half of Americans voted for him - and as much as you want to deplore them and throw them under the bus as if you're holier than thou to them - I guarantee plenty of them are more intelligent than you and make more money than you (same goes for me). The fact that you think Clinton is some kind of god to Trump is hilarious as well. Mind you, I bit the bullet and voted for Clinton. But at least I knew the kind of person she was. Your partisanship has warped your brain so badly that you honestly think one side is "The good guys" that are "looking out for you", while the evil Republicans are the villains. Behind each puppet is the same person, just a different hand. The funniest thing about your post is your last sentence - If anyone is ignorant, it's clearly you.

But your perception of Europe as a land of opportunity is just rather comical. It's the ultimate example of "grass is always greener on the other side". You do realize that they are having a mass migration problem, right? You do realize, they are having their equivalent of Trump uprising in pretty much all of their countries, right? There is a reason for this, I'm not saying I agree with it - but if you think they are so much unlike the US then you were seriously dropped on your head one too many times as a kid.

To each their own man, some people have to learn from experience - and I damn well will place a high dollar bet that you will be an example of that.

FIrst of all I was no Clinton fan. I did end up voting for her because, well, choices, but I was hoping she went down in the primaries. I post a lot in P&N and that is reflected there. I knew what kind of person she was, and it was 20x better than the evil that is Trump. I don't think all Trump voters are ignorant, but I think his base is ignorant, some by choice and plenty not by choice. Many issues are nuanced with good policies on both sides, but there are major fundamental issues where there are two sides and yes, one side is good and one side is bad. A lot of those are economic ones and some are social issues. I am personally sick of the whole argument that the president doesn't matter, it's the same behind the scenes - I mean how can you even say that after this fiasco we are in with Trump, after only 1.5 years in office.

You are acting like I am trying to move to a hippie commune that chants Death To America and making bad life choices. I'm thinking of moving to Germany - the number 4 economy in the world and just as advanced as the USA and more advanced in some ways. Yes, there is opportunity there. I know all about the mass migration crisis borne of the Syria refugee movement and Germany being at the forefront of it. I'm ok with that. I think a grateful refugee has just as good of a shot at being a good neighbor as a dumbass ignorant super Trump humper if you wan to put it in perspective. I'm trying to experience a different lifestyle for at least part of my life, and be close to all those countries so I can visit and travel easily to see countless cultures over some years there. Nothing else gives me proximity to that geographically.

I may or may not love living in Europe but from spending hours reading about it I'm pretty sure I will. I will be prepared. I'm prepared for the smaller living spaces, the shops not being opened as often, shopping not being such a priority, things moving a little slower there at time, etc... That's kinda half the point of going.

And I'm glad you have a job that you feel gives you a very good work/life balance but you are the exception in this country not the rule. 5 weeks vacation and a solid paternity leave? That's European style buddy, not American. As far as maternity leave, most European countries you get a year paid leave. That should put things in perspective.

 

[DigDog]

Well, i will give you some final advice. Hey, its totally possible that i have an unrealistic view of the US, given that the last time i was there was in 99, and i had money to burn.

Take a sabbatical. Dont burn your bridges just yet. No, stop. Put down ze flammewerfen. Ok.
Take a sabbatical, go to germany, make some friends, and see if you like it. AND THEN move.

When its time to go back, if you feel you want to stay, stay.

 

[MrSquished]

Well, i will give you some final advice. Hey, its totally possible that i have an unrealistic view of the US, given that the last time i was there was in 99, and i had money to burn.

Take a sabbatical. Dont burn your bridges just yet. No, stop. Put down ze flammewerfen. Ok.
Take a sabbatical, go to germany, make some friends, and see if you like it. AND THEN move.

When its time to go back, if you feel you want to stay, stay.

Yes we will have to visit the country of our choice first. I've been to Germany for a week but not for decades. But I remember it was clean and efficient and super well organized. I do have a friend that lives in Germany that I am reaching out to, plus a colleague who is German can be a good sounding board for me. He is in my industry so he would know about transferring there.

I just refuse to believe these guys who think America is the only place in the world worth living your entire lives. Talk about a small worldview. Part of the reason I want to get the hell out of here for a few is to get away from that worldview lol

 

[DigDog]

Well DE has a 62% english literacy rate.

But, while i dont disagree with you on there being other places but the US to live in, one thing is when you "experience" a country (gosh morocco has the most amazing sunsets) and another is where you LIVE in a country (i got to take my mom to the hospital).

Make no mistake, you'll be doing plenty of N1 at the beginning, and moreof N2 as you go along.

 

[MrSquished]

Well DE has a 62% english literacy rate.

But, while i dont disagree with you on there being other places but the US to live in, one thing is when you "experience" a country (gosh morocco has the most amazing sunsets) and another is where you LIVE in a country (i got to take my mom to the hospital).

Make no mistake, you'll be doing plenty of N1 at the beginning, and moreof N2 as you go along.

As it so happens I've been to Morocco for a good 10 day trip, and while I loved it, would never think of living there. Same with other places I've been like China, Egypt or cities in the US I've visited. England I have been to and would have tried living there but not since Brexit. Even Cyprus, the country that gives me EU citizenship, it's a gorgeous mediterranean Island, I mean I'd live there but I'd prefer to stay in the States over there however. I'm not easily seduced by sunsets. Only certain countries in Europe tickle our fancy to live there. I get pretty tan in the sun, let's see if they let me back into the states if I am living abroad and Trump is in power still 🙂

 

[Exterous]

There's a related discussion here with quite a few people who have done it. Might be helpful
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=251615&newpost=3977060

 

[MrSquished]

There's a related discussion here with quite a few people who have done it. Might be helpful
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=251615&newpost=3977060

Good thread thanks! Seems mostly positive experiences to Europe

 

[13Gigatons]

Considering I work with a shitload of people that have immigrated here legally - every single one of them would disagree with you greatly.

My post had nothing to do with immigrants legal or illegal. It had to do with the growing problem of poverty and the crappy healthcare system.

 

[zinfamous]

My brother and a couple of my friends moved to Germany in the last decade. None of them have moved back. Free health care, almost free college, easy traveling and just a more chill life in general. Life is a lot more difficult in the US than it is in many of the European nations. I can't even remember the last time I had more than a week off of work, and my friends in Europe will take a month + off at a time without issue and not only is not a problem but it is actually encouraged.

In Germany, their celebrated/popular authors are philosophers and such. Here, it's like, Stephen King and well, shits like Bill O'Reilly, a colossally-unlearned person. Across the culture, there is just a much, much higher level of conversation and general public awareness of the actual world around them. Of course that is a boon to the average sense of well-being and quality of life. A place where it is as acceptable as it should be to dismiss the loud idiots of your country, rather than lionize them, like is done here.

 

[zinfamous]

All of these posts are sad indeed. Free healthcare? Free college? No one gets anything for free, especially in Europe.

You want to get promoted at work, and make a better living for yourself? Forget that. You’re stuck for the most part, and you’re expected to deal with it. Don’t look for promotions, or god forbid a raise worth your salt.

Your statements about Trump Republicans is sad, and what’s wrong with the US. Stop expecting things for free, and your attitude changes. I’d like to see half of your grow up poor, and better yourself. Maybe your one of those that grew up in the middle class and expect shit given to you?

Either way, if you want an apartment, or some condo, go live in the Midwest, up north, or even down south. Stop living in the shitty liberal tax to death coastal areas, and stop whining. There are plenty of places that don’t suck, start looking.

sorry, outside of digging dry wells to mine a product the world doesn't want, and joining a circle jerk, there are no jobs in Trump red states that appeal to the modern, educated human. Sucks, because the land is so flat and corn-filled there....oh wait, that sucks too!

 

[zinfamous]

I'm just going to be brutally honest here man - you have an insanely irrational sense of reality. I didn't vote for Trump, but he is our President. Half of Americans voted for him - .

Huh? Less than half of people that voted, voted for him. This is also out of around 55-60% of the voting population that actually voted. Many didn't vote because, historically, Americans are terrible at voting, and also because many just didn't want to vote for these two candidates. Something like 25-30% of Americans actually cast a vote for the Orangeman

No, half of America certainly does not support the dbag (math), and he certainly does not represent any kind of majority or even a real plurality of popular support in this country. He's the least popular POTUS to ever lead this country. Ever.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Huh? Less than half of people that voted, voted for him. This is also out of around 55-60% of the voting population that actually voted. Many didn't vote because, historically, Americans are terrible at voting, and also because many just didn't want to vote for these two candidates. Something like 25-30% of Americans actually cast a vote for the Orangeman

No, half of America certainly does not support the dbag (math), and he certainly does not represent any kind of majority or even a real plurality of popular support in this country. He's the least popular POTUS to ever lead this country. Ever.

Yes, it was only 50% of the voting population, but not all of the population. I know because facts. What facts you say? OH I have no facts. Because no one could possibly cite what "would" happen if everyone were to vote, as much as you like to infer it and curtail it to whatever bias your mind has. But anyhow - Yes yes, no one likes him - no one supports him - and he will NEVER become president.

Oh wait..... Haven't you 'tards learned to quit generalizing what will happen? It only cost you an entire election. Keep living in denial if you want to repeat history. I'm not telling you Trump is amazing - as I stated previously I didn't vote for the retard... What I'm telling you is to learn from your mistakes else ye' be damned to repeat them.... and you sure are on track to repeat it with posts like this.

 

[nakedfrog]

It still wasn't even 50% of the vote...

 

[Thebobo]

Lmao! Peace out! Don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out. You can live in your shit condo, and cry about the country. Europe won’t be gaining anything.

People like you are not allowed to say "peace out." Especially in such a negative way. That's for cool people and your not cool. But I suspect you knew that your whole life.

 

[Thebobo]

Bla bla bla

To each their own man, some people have to learn from experience - and I damn well will place a high dollar bet that you will be an example of that.

S0me the wise has spoken and he tells you "to each his own" and he should of just stopped it there but in the same sentence says you need to listen to me because I can never ever be wrong about anything.

 

[zinfamous]

Yes, it was only 50% of the voting population, but not all of the population. I know because facts. What facts you say? OH I have no facts. Because no one could possibly cite what "would" happen if everyone were to vote, as much as you like to infer it and curtail it to whatever bias your mind has. But anyhow - Yes yes, no one likes him - no one supports him - and he will NEVER become president.

Oh wait..... Haven't you 'tards learned to quit generalizing what will happen? It only cost you an entire election. Keep living in denial if you want to repeat history. I'm not telling you Trump is amazing - as I stated previously I didn't vote for the retard... What I'm telling you is to learn from your mistakes else ye' be damned to repeat them.... and you sure are on track to repeat it with posts like this.

You said half of Americans voted for him. Barely half of a Americans even voted, so yeah: you said a stupid thing from the start. You say you don't like the guy either, but you defend him, sorta, because you have convinced yourself that "half of America" (your words) must be right about something? That's ridiculous.

....and not even half that voted, voted for him, so you're still wrong. I think he has the largest difference in losing number of votes, for a president that was elected. The math, again, supports the argument that the most unpopular person, ever, was elected. There just really is no half, anywhere.

oh snap, forgot this wasn't P&N. 😀