Anyone know what Scoliosis Thoracalis is?

[z0mb13]

whoa whoa I just woke up and didnt expect this thread to have 44 replies...
Thanks for all the info
Yes I will talk to the doctor on Monday.
Hmm could it be that this is temporary? I mean it just happens that when I had the xray taken, my spine was out of alignment?
Also could weightlifting cause this?

 

[waggy]

I have slight curveture myself. but my right leg is 3/4th of a inch shorter then teh other. the doctor said that is the reason.

he said its not bad so he is not worried about it.

 

[d3n]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: FrontlineWarrior

Originally posted by: eits
go see a chiropractor. they're the best at treating and reversing scoliosis. depending on how bad you have scoliosis, there's a chance that a chiropractor can get rid of the scoliosis. the reason it's important to treat scoliosis is because if it goes untreated, it gets worse and can affect your bodily functions, heart rate, and breathing... it also can cause your back muscles to hurt from doing normal, everyday things. it won't kill you, but you're MUCH better off without it. after your scoliosis is gone, you'll probably have to come back to the chiropractor's office every month or two just to keep it in check... your body will, more than likely, naturally want to go back to having scoliosis and to keep that from happening, you gotta keep an eye on it.

chiropractors can't do anything for scoliosis. go see an orthopedic surgeon!

BAHAHA! yeah... go see a surgeon :roll::laugh: hahaha funniest thing i've heard all day

I've had some bad experiences dealing with surgeons. They seem to be closed minded. The generally accepted treatments bring almost as many complications as the scoliosis. It should say something that my daughters scoliosis wasnt bad enough to qualify to be cut on yet. They told me to go home and wait till it was sever enough. What kind of medicine is that.

We found a chiropractor that went to a credible school. It has been a great thing. Our daughter weights about 20 pounds and he was able to improve the scoliosis about 4 or 5 degrees a month. Anyone that has dealt with childhood scoliosis usually knows that it goes from bad to worse very quickly. So simply halting the advance was a great thing.

Eventually we found a medical treatment that involved casting the entire torso in a rizer cast. This was called barbaric by the orthopedic surgeon that told us to go home and wait. No bars to adjust or titanium ribs or follow up surgeries. The casting and the chiropractic worked and we have a happy little girl who doesn't have her spinal column fused together.

Don't blindly accept any doctors advice.

 

[z0mb13]

whoa I just paid more attention to the xray result, and it shows that my right shoulder is lower than my left shoulder.

Could this be from golf? in golf when I am taking a stance my right shoulder is lower than my left.

 

[iliopsoas]

Originally posted by: LordMaul

Originally posted by: AbAbber2k

Originally posted by: eits
that's a loaded question. disc integrity is continuously lost upon motion from the second decade of life (ages 10-19). however, chiropractic improves nutrition imbibition and proper motion to the disc, which improves health of the disc. dehydrated/malnourished discs get worse at a much faster rate than if they're treated with chiropractic adjustments.

also, go back and read the edit i made to the post... i added something at the bottom you probably missed.

Okay, so it was a little loaded. And yes, there are definitely problems with how some chiropractors handle patients. Like I said... quacks on both sides of the spectrum. I still think scoliosis is an awfully "gray" area as far as chiropractic medicine is concerned. And I guess I'll leave it at that. I have enough knowledge of the human body to be critical of what people tell me but I'm certainly not a doctor. As far as improving spinal health goes... that may be, but I'm not going to automatically discount the stress that chiropractics put on the spine just to make it better. Especially when regular treatment is necessary for maintenance.

Again, you apparently know little of modern-day chiropractic medicine if you still believe this. Go do some research and look into the profession as it stands today, you may be pleasantly surprised.

Ha! Modern-day chiropractic schools continue to churn out a bunch of quacks. I personally know several of these guys. Some of them have IQs of my shoe size but are always eager to crack your back for a buck.

 

[iliopsoas]

Originally posted by: AbAbber2k


I'm well aware of what scoliosis is and I know the spine isn't suppose to be "perfectly straight". Your comment was unnecessary as we all know what I meant.

As for eits being part of the medical community, I knew that much, I don't know his particular focus, but that is irrelevant. His knowledge on the topic OBVIOUSLY exceeds my own. However, his assertion that the OP should just "see a chiropractor" before even consulting with his doctor was absurd and irresponsible. ESPECIALLY for someone in the medical community.

eits is part of the medical community? I wouldn't stretch it that far.

 

[iliopsoas]

Originally posted by: eits

if you think you can make it through nursing school, you can make it through med school. go for it, man (that is, if you think that's what you're meant to do in life).

You've never been to med school. How would you know?

 

[Antisocial Virge]

Did you even read the results of the one study you posted?

"Of the 150 children who qualified for the study, 40 completed the one year course of care and had follow-up x-rays. Preliminary results indicate an average reduction of 1.4 degrees in the curvature of the subjects' spines; the children less than 10 years old showed an average improvement of 2.6 degrees; those over 10, showed an average improvement of 0.9 degrees."

So at that rate, my niece who had a 30+ degree bend would have been all better by the time she was 45.

 

[iliopsoas]

Originally posted by: waggy
I have slight curveture myself. but my right leg is 3/4th of a inch shorter then teh other. the doctor said that is the reason.

he said its not bad so he is not worried about it.

that's correct. Leg length discrepancy alters your biomechanics and you bear weight differently, altering the stress load on your spine. However, corrective surgeries are only done for severe cases. Even with leg length discrepancy surgery or hip/knee replacement, the standard of care allows for some resulting length discrepancy. The small margin of error is unavoidable.

 

[iliopsoas]

Originally posted by: d3n

I've had some bad experiences dealing with surgeons. They seem to be closed minded. The generally accepted treatments bring almost as many complications as the scoliosis. It should say something that my daughters scoliosis wasnt bad enough to qualify to be cut on yet. They told me to go home and wait till it was sever enough. What kind of medicine is that.

We found a chiropractor that went to a credible school. It has been a great thing. Our daughter weights about 20 pounds and he was able to improve the scoliosis about 4 or 5 degrees a month. Anyone that has dealt with childhood scoliosis usually knows that it goes from bad to worse very quickly. So simply halting the advance was a great thing.

Eventually we found a medical treatment that involved casting the entire torso in a rizer cast. This was called barbaric by the orthopedic surgeon that told us to go home and wait. No bars to adjust or titanium ribs or follow up surgeries. The casting and the chiropractic worked and we have a happy little girl who doesn't have her spinal column fused together.

Don't blindly accept any doctors advice.

It's called good medicine. Not all scoliosis requires treatment. Some scoliosis is stable and does not get worse. In many cases, patients are asymptomatic and their quality of life is not affected.

How do you know that your daughter really needed the chiropractic treatment? Would she have done just as well without the treatments? Unfortunately, the chiropractic community does not have any clinical trials to prove this.

For all we know, your daughter may be doing well just from the placebo effect.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: z0mb13
whoa I just paid more attention to the xray result, and it shows that my right shoulder is lower than my left shoulder.

Could this be from golf? in golf when I am taking a stance my right shoulder is lower than my left.

it's from the scoliosis.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: iliopsoas

Originally posted by: LordMaul

Originally posted by: AbAbber2k

Originally posted by: eits
that's a loaded question. disc integrity is continuously lost upon motion from the second decade of life (ages 10-19). however, chiropractic improves nutrition imbibition and proper motion to the disc, which improves health of the disc. dehydrated/malnourished discs get worse at a much faster rate than if they're treated with chiropractic adjustments.

also, go back and read the edit i made to the post... i added something at the bottom you probably missed.

Okay, so it was a little loaded. And yes, there are definitely problems with how some chiropractors handle patients. Like I said... quacks on both sides of the spectrum. I still think scoliosis is an awfully "gray" area as far as chiropractic medicine is concerned. And I guess I'll leave it at that. I have enough knowledge of the human body to be critical of what people tell me but I'm certainly not a doctor. As far as improving spinal health goes... that may be, but I'm not going to automatically discount the stress that chiropractics put on the spine just to make it better. Especially when regular treatment is necessary for maintenance.

Again, you apparently know little of modern-day chiropractic medicine if you still believe this. Go do some research and look into the profession as it stands today, you may be pleasantly surprised.

Ha! Modern-day chiropractic schools continue to churn out a bunch of quacks. I personally know several of these guys. Some of them have IQs of my shoe size but are always eager to crack your back for a buck.

haha i'm sure you do...

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: iliopsoas

Originally posted by: eits

if you think you can make it through nursing school, you can make it through med school. go for it, man (that is, if you think that's what you're meant to do in life).

You've never been to med school. How would you know?

as i've told you before, i DID go to med school... i left after the first semester for chiropractic school instead.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: waggy
I have slight curveture myself. but my right leg is 3/4th of a inch shorter then teh other. the doctor said that is the reason.

he said its not bad so he is not worried about it.

all you need is a shoe lift and a couple of adjustments and you're set. you wouldn't even need monthly checkups to see how the scoliosis is doing.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: iliopsoas

Originally posted by: d3n

I've had some bad experiences dealing with surgeons. They seem to be closed minded. The generally accepted treatments bring almost as many complications as the scoliosis. It should say something that my daughters scoliosis wasnt bad enough to qualify to be cut on yet. They told me to go home and wait till it was sever enough. What kind of medicine is that.

We found a chiropractor that went to a credible school. It has been a great thing. Our daughter weights about 20 pounds and he was able to improve the scoliosis about 4 or 5 degrees a month. Anyone that has dealt with childhood scoliosis usually knows that it goes from bad to worse very quickly. So simply halting the advance was a great thing.

Eventually we found a medical treatment that involved casting the entire torso in a rizer cast. This was called barbaric by the orthopedic surgeon that told us to go home and wait. No bars to adjust or titanium ribs or follow up surgeries. The casting and the chiropractic worked and we have a happy little girl who doesn't have her spinal column fused together.

Don't blindly accept any doctors advice.

It's called good medicine. Not all scoliosis requires treatment. Some scoliosis is stable and does not get worse. In many cases, patients are asymptomatic and their quality of life is not affected.

How do you know that your daughter really needed the chiropractic treatment? Would she have done just as well without the treatments? Unfortunately, the chiropractic community does not have any clinical trials to prove this.

For all we know, your daughter may be doing well just from the placebo effect.

biomechanical/musculoskeletal placebo effect? really? :roll:

 

[d3n]

Originally posted by: iliopsoas

Originally posted by: d3n

I've had some bad experiences dealing with surgeons. They seem to be closed minded. The generally accepted treatments bring almost as many complications as the scoliosis. It should say something that my daughters scoliosis wasnt bad enough to qualify to be cut on yet. They told me to go home and wait till it was sever enough. What kind of medicine is that.

We found a chiropractor that went to a credible school. It has been a great thing. Our daughter weights about 20 pounds and he was able to improve the scoliosis about 4 or 5 degrees a month. Anyone that has dealt with childhood scoliosis usually knows that it goes from bad to worse very quickly. So simply halting the advance was a great thing.

Eventually we found a medical treatment that involved casting the entire torso in a rizer cast. This was called barbaric by the orthopedic surgeon that told us to go home and wait. No bars to adjust or titanium ribs or follow up surgeries. The casting and the chiropractic worked and we have a happy little girl who doesn't have her spinal column fused together.

Don't blindly accept any doctors advice.

It's called good medicine. Not all scoliosis requires treatment. Some scoliosis is stable and does not get worse. In many cases, patients are asymptomatic and their quality of life is not affected.

How do you know that your daughter really needed the chiropractic treatment? Would she have done just as well without the treatments? Unfortunately, the chiropractic community does not have any clinical trials to prove this.

For all we know, your daughter may be doing well just from the placebo effect.

Childhood scoliosis where ribs are impacted and a curve is approaching 90*. is far from stable. Our daughter was so small that surgery was not an immediate option. Common medicine had no options for us. Chiropractic improved the curve monthly in a type of scoliosis that only gets worse, not better. This was according to the orthopedic hospitals own x-rays. Now, with the casting, done by orthopedics, and the chiropractic you'd be hard pressed to know she had been affected.

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: z0mb13
whoa I just paid more attention to the xray result, and it shows that my right shoulder is lower than my left shoulder.

Could this be from golf? in golf when I am taking a stance my right shoulder is lower than my left.

it's from the scoliosis.

lol what I meant was could golf cause the scoliosis? maybe from bad habits?

 

[z0mb13]

Actually it just occured in my mind that I actually went to a chiropractor sometime last year to solve the minor pain in my lower back. I dont think he noticed the scoliosis. Maybe mine is very minor that it is only noticeable via the xray results?

 

[Whisper]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: iliopsoas

Originally posted by: d3n

I've had some bad experiences dealing with surgeons. They seem to be closed minded. The generally accepted treatments bring almost as many complications as the scoliosis. It should say something that my daughters scoliosis wasnt bad enough to qualify to be cut on yet. They told me to go home and wait till it was sever enough. What kind of medicine is that.

We found a chiropractor that went to a credible school. It has been a great thing. Our daughter weights about 20 pounds and he was able to improve the scoliosis about 4 or 5 degrees a month. Anyone that has dealt with childhood scoliosis usually knows that it goes from bad to worse very quickly. So simply halting the advance was a great thing.

Eventually we found a medical treatment that involved casting the entire torso in a rizer cast. This was called barbaric by the orthopedic surgeon that told us to go home and wait. No bars to adjust or titanium ribs or follow up surgeries. The casting and the chiropractic worked and we have a happy little girl who doesn't have her spinal column fused together.

Don't blindly accept any doctors advice.

It's called good medicine. Not all scoliosis requires treatment. Some scoliosis is stable and does not get worse. In many cases, patients are asymptomatic and their quality of life is not affected.

How do you know that your daughter really needed the chiropractic treatment? Would she have done just as well without the treatments? Unfortunately, the chiropractic community does not have any clinical trials to prove this.

For all we know, your daughter may be doing well just from the placebo effect.

biomechanical/musculoskeletal placebo effect? really? :roll:

While I'm not sure if a "placebo effect" is the right terminology, especially in this situation, the "waiting list" effect is definitely applicable to the study results mentioned by someone a few posts earlier. This is why a control group is ALWAYS necessary in clinical trials, especially when the period of the study is a year or greater. Without such a group, you can't rule out that the change might have occurred based on chance alone, or by simply being on a list waiting to receive treatment.

The same types of criticisms hounded Psychology for years back in the psychodynamic/psychoanalysis days, which is why we're such sticklers about it now.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: z0mb13

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: z0mb13
whoa I just paid more attention to the xray result, and it shows that my right shoulder is lower than my left shoulder.

Could this be from golf? in golf when I am taking a stance my right shoulder is lower than my left.

it's from the scoliosis.

lol what I meant was could golf cause the scoliosis? maybe from bad habits?

nah. doc should check your leg lengths or hip crest rotation/levels. your scoliosis is probably more associated with how your sacrum's tilted than anything you've done on your own.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: z0mb13
Actually it just occured in my mind that I actually went to a chiropractor sometime last year to solve the minor pain in my lower back. I dont think he noticed the scoliosis. Maybe mine is very minor that it is only noticeable via the xray results?

it could also have been that you had a normal degree of curvature and it wasn't scoliosis yet. do you know what degree scoliosis (cobb angle) you have?

 

[Mark R]

Originally posted by: Whisper
Well, if the aim of the study was to examine the effectiveness of the treatment, then dropping those patients was probably the right thing to do, as they didn't adhere to the entire treatment protocol. However, what could've been done would be to compare their improvement (if any) to the adherence group; that'd go a long way in improving external validity.

On the contrary, if the treatment requires continued input in order to be effective, then its effectiveness depends on how many patients actually continue with it. For that reason, they cannot be excluded from the results.

For example, lets say there's a new pill for IBS, but it has a side effect of causing severe headaches. It completely relieves the IBS symptoms as long as you take it. However, no one can continue to take it for more than a few days because of the headaches. Is this an effective treatment? No. Because, no one will take it. It's therefore pointless recommending this treatment, if there is a better alternative.

This case series is difficult to interpret, because of the lack of a control group. As such, it lacks internal validity. The external validity can't be assessed, as the abstract provides insufficient information on the selection procedures.

 

[z0mb13]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: z0mb13
Actually it just occured in my mind that I actually went to a chiropractor sometime last year to solve the minor pain in my lower back. I dont think he noticed the scoliosis. Maybe mine is very minor that it is only noticeable via the xray results?

it could also have been that you had a normal degree of curvature and it wasn't scoliosis yet. do you know what degree scoliosis (cobb angle) you have?

hmm the report didnt say.. I need to ask the doctor tomorrow

 

[Mark R]

Originally posted by: z0mb13
hmm the report didnt say.. I need to ask the doctor tomorrow

If it was just a chest X-ray, then the view of the spine wouldn't be adequate to assess fully a scoliosis properly. Scoliosis assessment requires a standing view X-ray of the whole spine.

Cobb's angle measurement is not normally performed as part of the written report of the X-ray. If a doctor requires an angle measurement to plan treatment, then this is best left to the treating doctor, so that there is no confusion as to what was measured.

I wouldn't expect a GP ever to see the X-ray, let alone measure angles on it.

Your doctor should discuss the options with you at your next consultation.

 

[PokerGuy]

99% of Chiropractic practitioners can star in their own Aflac commercial.